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First Post - Looking for a new mattress, have some specific questions 02 Jan 2014 11:15 #1

  • luv2sleep
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First off, thank you for having this resource available...I can't believe I've been buying mattresses "blind" my whole life (I'm almost 39). Now it's even more important I get a quality mattress because sadly, I spend the vast majority of my time in bed due to health conditions (some due to fatigue, some due to pain). So, I need my next mattress to be halfway decent. Actually, considering I had no clue what I was buying before, my current mattress has done the job. It was a closeout model called "Haven" by Nature's Form. The company that used to manufacture this mattress is now called Nature's Rest. I believe it is a hybrid latex/foam. The one I have is king size, about 8" thick, with a plush pillowtop (which after 6+ years has a nice body indentation, hence why needing replaced). When I first got it, it was very soft and felt like "sleeping on a cloud"...I like that ultra-soft feel and looking for that kind again. I emailed the company to see if they knew anything more about this model, but they don't. I am waiting to see if they get back to me and let me know if they make anything comparable now. I got pretty lucky back then, I think, because the set was only $500. My budget now is MAX $800 (but really don't want to go over $600). I want to get a queen this time as well.

I wasted my time already at Mattress Firm and The Sleep Oasis (overpriced name-brand stuff) and have only been to one "discount" store so far...there I found one mattress in price range and initial comfort feel that I like. The basic specs at the store were the following:

14" Legacy Elegance Pillow Top by Park Place, double-sided (that part is appealing). Endure edge foam encasement. Visco plus memory foam comfort layer, 690 (queen) coil innerspring unit. Premium stretch knit cover. 12 yr non-proratated warranty. Price $595 set, $555 mattress only. Here is this manufacturer's line: www.parkplacecorp.com/pkp_legacy.html. This particular model is not shown, but when I emailed the manufacturer, they said it is comparable to the Daybreak Pillow Top, but with a different cover.

My Q&A on specs to the manufacturer:

Q: Regarding the foam layers, can you tell me what is the thickness, type, and quality/density of any foam layers (comfort layer, support layers and any edge support). Is the polyfoam made in North America and is it CertiPur certified or not?
A: All of the foam is made in the USA and is made according to CertiPurUS standards and is certified by CertiPurUS. All of the foam in the build up portion of the mattress is 1.5LB foam. The cover has a hypersoft 1.2LB convoluted foam in it and it is quilted to the cover. The foam encased edge support is a 1.7lb foam.

Q: If any latex foam is used, what is the type and blend?
A: There is no latex rubber in this product.

Q: Also, what is the type of fabric and the quilting material (if any) used in the mattress (natural or synthetic fibers or foam).
A: The cover uses synthetic fibers and the backer is the flame retardant rayon/polyester we use as a barrier.

Q Finally, what is the type of spring used (Bonnell, Continuous Coil, Offset, or Pocket Coil), the height of the springs, the gauge of the wire, details about any zoning, the number of turns, and the type of edge support.
A: This is a foam encased unit size and is what is called a open coil which is very similar to the offset. It has a 14.5 gauge coil wire but no border wire since it is foam encased.

So is that mattress a cheap piece of crap (LOL) and/or do I need to ask more specific questions, thanks! Also, any recommendations for other models are welcome. I *might* consider memory foam, but only the gel-cooling type, but honestly, I think I prefer the pillowtops. I haven't laid on a memory foam one yet that was soft enough for my taste...

P.S.: I'm in the Clearwater/St. Pete, FL general area....also, maybe I should add the mattress is only for myself and I'm 5'7" and about 130lbs...

Thanks!
luv2sleep

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First Post - Looking for a new mattress, have some specific questions 02 Jan 2014 16:35 #2

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Hi luv2sleep,

You certainly asked the right questions :)

Q: Regarding the foam layers, can you tell me what is the thickness, type, and quality/density of any foam layers (comfort layer, support layers and any edge support). Is the polyfoam made in North America and is it CertiPur certified or not?
A: All of the foam is made in the USA and is made according to CertiPurUS standards and is certified by CertiPurUS. All of the foam in the build up portion of the mattress is 1.5LB foam. The cover has a hypersoft 1.2LB convoluted foam in it and it is quilted to the cover. The foam encased edge support is a 1.7lb foam.


The specs they included certainly appear to be reasonable specs for a two sided mattress in this budget range but they don't match the description of the mattress (which mentions that it also includes memory foam in its construction) and don't appear to be complete. They also don't include the layer thicknesses. I would want to know the thickness and quality of all the layers not just some of them. The quilting foam is 1.2 lbs so I would want to make sure it wasn't more than "about an inch or so" which I use as a guideline for lower density foam (once you are in the range of about 2" or so of lower quality materials they could become the weak link of the mattress). I would also want to make sure that the memory foam was at least 4 lbs density or higher and if it's less than this I would make sure that the thickness of this layer and the quilting form combined was less than 2".

You are "most of the way there" but I would want to fill in the gaps of the missing information before a purchase to confirm that it would be a good quality/value choice and even though it's in a lower budget range it would still be important to me that there are no obvious weak links in the mattress so you don't take on the higher risk of premature foam softening and the loss of comfort and support that goes with it. Better retailers should also be doing the work of tracking down the specs for you so you don't have to deal directly with a manufacturer although I'm impressed that you are taking the time to do so.

Some of the better options or possibilities I'm aware of in the Tampa, Clearwater, St Petersburg area are listed in post #143 here .

Phoenix
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First Post - Looking for a new mattress, have some specific questions 02 Jan 2014 17:31 #3

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Hi luv2sleep,
You certainly asked the right questions :)


Yes, I copied off you :P

You are "most of the way there" but I would want to fill in the gaps of the missing information before a purchase to confirm that it would be a good quality/value choice and even though it's in a lower budget range it would still be important to me that there are no obvious weak links in the mattress so you don't take on the higher risk of premature foam softening and the loss of comfort and support that goes with it. Better retailers should also be doing the work of tracking down the specs for you so you don't have to deal directly with a manufacturer although I'm impressed that you are taking the time to do so.


I just sent the following reply off (hoping I made sense because frankly I don't really know what I'm talking about, LOL):

"I wasn't sure what you meant by "build up portion" of the mattress...I just still need to know the following:

* Thickness (inches) of the memory foam comfort layer & memory foam density (is that 1.5lb?)
* Thickness of the quilted foam layer
* Thickness of the support foam layer"

Some of the better options or possibilities I'm aware of in the Tampa, Clearwater, St Petersburg area are listed in post #143 here .


Thanks, I saw that post and took some notes :)

Will report back with any new findings!

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First Post - Looking for a new mattress, have some specific questions 02 Jan 2014 18:37 #4

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Hi luv2sleep,

Just for reference ... the "build up" portion of the mattress are the foam layers above the innerspring and below the quilting layer.

1.5 lb density is typically polyfoam and if it was memory foam it would be very very low quality (I would use 4 lb density as a minimum guideline for memory foam).

This doesn't really have a support foam layer because the support component in the mattress is the innerspring.

Phoenix
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First Post - Looking for a new mattress, have some specific questions 03 Jan 2014 09:05 #5

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Well, here's the reply I got. Doesn't sound too good (correct me if I'm wrong):

"The build up is the material between the innerspring and cover. All the layers you referenced are 1/2 inch but there are 2 of each since it is a 2 sided mattress. The density is 1.5 LB."

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First Post - Looking for a new mattress, have some specific questions 03 Jan 2014 13:57 #6

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Hi luv2sleep,

Unfortunately that still doesn't give you the information you need.

I usually find it useful to have them list the layers from top to bottom (including the quilting layers) and making sure they include the thickness of each layer, the type and density of any memory foam or polyfoam, and the type and blend of any latex. It's unfortunate that they make is so difficult and provide the information like pieces of a puzzle that aren't put together instead of providing the final picture that is clear.

I'm still not clear on the specifics of this mattress and if it has memory foam in the "buildup" then the density is unlikely to be 1.5 lbs.

So far ... it seems like these are the details that are known ...

It's similar to the Daybreak Plush but the Daybreak Plush is a 12.5" mattress according to their site and this one appears to be 14" so there must be some differences in the inner materials

Quilting:
1/2" convoluted polyfoam 1.2 lb density: This is low quality/density polyfoam but it would be fine if there was under "around an inch or so" and this was the only layer used in the quilting. The description for the Daybreak says "Hypersoft / Supersoft zoned contour quilt foam" so there may be more than one quilting layer.

Buildup:
?" Visco plus memory foam plus: This is memory foam and I would want to know the thickness and the density. It almost certainly wouldn't be 1.5 lbs (which is a typical polyfoam density not memory foam).
?" Poly Plus support foam: This appears to be 1.5 lb polyfoam but I would want to know the thickness. Is this one of the .5" layers they are mentioning?

Support:
690 coil innerspring with endure foam encasement: This would be fine and foam encasement is "in the range" for reasonable density. The innerspring isn't usually the weak link of a mattress but it would be nice to know the height and the gauge of the springs.

Once you have all the layer or component thicknesses you can add them up to make sure they are just under the total thickness of the mattress (the foam layers excludes the fire barrier and the insulator that is over the spring so it would be a little less than the total thickness of the mattress).

They sure don't make getting the information you need easy and it's unfortunate that this is so common in the industry.

Phoenix
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First Post - Looking for a new mattress, have some specific questions 03 Jan 2014 20:12 #7

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Grrrrr...thank you for guiding me through this. I wonder if this person is playing dumb or simply doesn't understand my question. I'm not sure how much clearer I can be??? Going to have to figure out a reply that this person can comprehend. This shouldn't be so difficult! :S

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First Post - Looking for a new mattress, have some specific questions 04 Jan 2014 00:57 #8

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Hi luv2sleep,

Part of the problem is that most manufacturers aren't used to dealing with consumers that know what to ask for so they think that partial information will satisfy them. It's probably fair to say that 99% of consumers choose the mattresses they sleep on without having any idea of the quality of the materials that are used inside it.

Many manufacturers are also reluctant to provide complete specs because they are well aware that this information can be used to make more meaningful comparisons with other manufacturers which they believe may not be in their best interests. In addition to this they believe that consumers don't have the knowledge or experience to interpret the information accurately anyway (and for the most part they are right) so they don't take providing this information all that seriously. It's easier to sell mattresses or train salespeople to sell based on marketing stories that are used to "differentiate" one mattress from another than it is to train them with more specific information that can help consumers make better quality choices. It's much harder to differentiate one mattress from another if consumers realize that all manufacturers have access to similar types of materials in their mattresses. The information on this site is not the type of information that larger manufacturers tend to welcome or spend much time encouraging and it goes against the overall trends in the industry where the larger manufacturers that aren't transparent about their materials are actually gaining market share from year to year (see this article )

While your mattress is not in a budget range where a manufacturer would be able to use the highest quality or most durable materials ... I would still consider it important to make sure that there are at least no obvious weak links in the mattress so that you can have a realistic expectation that the mattress will have a reasonable useful lifetime. The more consumers insist on this type of information and deal only with more transparent manufacturers the more likely it is that the industry will slowly become more consumer friendly and quality oriented. Most smaller independent manufacturers are already more like this but consumers are exposed to so much advertising and marketing information and the major chains or big box stores are so focused on major brands that for the most part most consumers never even find out that they have better alternatives made by smaller manufacturers.

I would email them with something along the lines of the following ...

Hello,

I'm still don't have all the information I would like to make an informed choice about this mattress.

What I would like is the type of material for each of the layers listed from the top down to the innerspring (I realize that they will be on each side of the innerspring) and the thickness and density of each foam layer and the thickness of the innerspring so that they add up to the total thickness of the mattress (which is 14") with of course some allowance for any insulator over the innerspring on each side along with the fire barrier and the thickness of the ticking itself.

You have already given me the density of the quilting foam (1.2 lbs) but I don't know if there is a single 1/2" layer in the quilting or multiple layers. You also provided the density of the polyfoam used in the buildup but I would like to know if this is also just a single 1/2" layer or if there are more layers. You also haven't provided the thickness and density of the memory foam layer mentioned in the description or the thickness of the innerspring (so I can add them all up to make sure that they total close to 14"). I would also like to know the coil gauges

I hope that this time you will be able to provide me with the information I need to make an informed choice.

Thank you for your help.



If they don't provide you with the information you need after this then I would say there is little chance that they ever will.

I should also mention that this is really the job of the retailer of the mattress who should be willing and able to find out all this information for every mattress they sell to an "educated consumer".

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

First Post - Looking for a new mattress, have some specific questions 04 Jan 2014 01:37 #9

  • luv2sleep
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Thanks Phoenix,

I will give that reply a shot. I totally bypassed asking the dealer because I could tell by talking to the salesperson that he would have absolutely NO idea what the answers were, then I'd have to rely on him to email back and forth with the manufacturer, which would've wasted even more of my time. I'm used to doing things myself...they get done faster/better that way from experience. The dealer is a small "discount" mattress place in a small and dead strip mall type place...absolutely nothing fancy at all...just mattresses in a room and their desk...lol...no frills whatsoever...

Thanks again, will report back, hopefully with good news because I have been to 4 other places so far and this is the only mattress in my price range that feels the way I like and honestly, I don't want this to be a months-long project...and frankly, it's already getting old, lol...

luv2sleep

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First Post - Looking for a new mattress, have some specific questions 04 Jan 2014 03:03 #10

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Hi luv2sleep,

Thanks again, will report back, hopefully with good news because I have been to 4 other places so far and this is the only mattress in my price range that feels the way I like and honestly, I don't want this to be a months-long project...and frankly, it's already getting old, lol...


I can certainly understand the frustration ... and I also agree that this type of basic information should be much easier to obtain.

Unfortunately I think that many mattress purchases are the end result of mattress shopping fatigue more than quality and value comparisons in large part from the lack of meaningful information that is much too common in the mainstream parts of the industry.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.
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