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Finally Checked out a Talalay Topper 16 Nov 2013 16:32 #1

  • Clawdia
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We went to a store today that had a Pure Latex Bliss Talalay topper - salesman knew nothing, as in he knew even less than I did before finding this forum, which was pretty pathetic.

The topper was the 2" topper, and all I could learn about it is that the law tag read "100% natural Talalay latex". What I learned from lying on it - I had the salesman put it on the firmest of the PLB beds to try - is that I sank right thru those 2". I suspect the topper was either 14-15 ILD - everything I've read says PLB makes only very soft toppers. I don't know if 3" in that low an ILD would be better, or just a little more different. They had a fairly good price on it - he said he could order a queen 3" topper for around $450 - but I'm certainly not convinced at this point that it would be the answer I'm seeking to obtain a bit more cushy feel and more pressure relief.

Before I spend any more $$, I'm going to have my husband bring up my old featherbed and sleep on it on the Dunlop mattress for a few nights, just to see what effect that has on the pain I'm having.

What surprised me was that the topper didn't feel any better than it did. I expected to be more impressed than I was. I certainly wasn't pulling out a checkbook and asking him to order a queen size 3" topper, although on the other hand I've not ruled it out.

I did try out three of the beds in the PLB line, and I was right - if I'd seen them first, it would have been the Beautiful model I liked best. I didn't like it twice as much as the bed I bought, altho the price was nearly twice as much as I paid. I thought the Talalay latex felt a little different from my Dunlop mattress, but not as much different as I would have thought it would feel.

So I guess mission accomplished in that now I've at least laid on a piece of Talalay latex. But as far as helping me figure out a good solution to hip pain and shoulders not sinking in enough, I'm about as clueless as I was before making the trip.

Sometimes I find it hard to know when to start a new thread here and when to add to an existing one - I saw a thread titled about a PLB topper, but it had veered off in another direction, so I started this thread - if I'm doing this wrong, Phoenix, feel free to move me around. I feel like this is your "house", in a sense, and we're visitors.

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Finally Checked out a Talalay Topper 16 Nov 2013 17:19 #2

  • buttercupbetty
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How frustrating that the salesperson knew so little! I'm becoming somewhat of a mattress "snob" ;)

Hang in there! I'll report back next week when I get my 20 ILD dunlop topper.....

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Finally Checked out a Talalay Topper 16 Nov 2013 18:08 #3

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Thanks for sharing your store experience with the PLB topper. I was thinking about a 2" 15ILD, so I'm grateful for your first hand account.

Looking forward to the 20 ILD dunlop topper review also.

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Finally Checked out a Talalay Topper 16 Nov 2013 20:23 #4

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I'm interested in the review of the Dunlop topper, too, since my mattress is supposed to be softer than that, according to the ILD from where it was sold. I've turned into a bit of a skeptic, merely because everyone hearing the reported ILD of my mattress (16-18) says that must be sooooooo soft, and yet to me, after nearly a couple of months, it doesn't seem as soft as I thought it was initially, and I've started to develop pains in my hips that I think are pressure point related.

The real question I was trying to get at in my earlier post that never seemed to quite get there, I realized, is . . . if I feel as though I sink all the way thru the topper - I could slide my hand under my hips and plainly feel that they'd sunk all the way thru the topper to the mattress that was below it - then would it do any good as far as comfort and/or pressure point relief if it were actually on my mattress and I slept on it overnight? I did note that my spinal alignment still looked and felt fine, and my shoulder, while lying on my side, did feel as though it sunk farther into the topper than it does into my mattress.

So - I know those things happened when I tried out the topper - but I don't really understand how to interpret those things as far as whether they'd help with the problems I'm having.

And, lastly, I don't know what the law tag reading "100% natural Talalay latex" means, since I know there's natural, and then there's all natural . . .so other than knowing what the tag said, and that the salesman was not well informed . . . I don't even know exactly what it was I was trying out, other than what it said there, and that it was a 2" PLB topper.

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Finally Checked out a Talalay Topper 16 Nov 2013 23:02 #5

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Hi Clawdia,

And, lastly, I don't know what the law tag reading "100% natural Talalay latex" means, since I know there's natural, and then there's all natural . . .so other than knowing what the tag said, and that the salesman was not well informed . . . I don't even know exactly what it was I was trying out, other than what it said there, and that it was a 2" PLB topper.


It would mean that the topper was 100% natural Talalay latex vs blended talalay. It would be an N1 in terms of firmness which would be in the mid to upper teens in terms of ILD.

Peoenix
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Finally Checked out a Talalay Topper 17 Nov 2013 10:25 #6

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So if were PLB's blend, the tag would have read "100% Talalay latex", and that would still have been a correct labeling? PLB confuses me . . .

I slept on the featherbed on top of the Dunlop mattress last night. I did not like the feel - missed the feel of latex - but woke up today for the first time in a week with no hip pain. I could tell the 5" of 50/50 down/feathers wasn't as good for my back alignment, but my shoulders and hips do feel better today.

But the real question I had - if I feel like I was sinking all the way thru a topper, would it be possible for it to do any good as far as pressure point relief if it were actually on my mattress and I slept on it regularly? I think the lack of hip pain today (and I'm going to try it for another few nights to be sure it's not a fluke) is an indication that I do need something on top of the Dunlop, leaving me still unsure as to whether a topper thru which I sank all the way thru could be the answer, or if that sinking means I'd need something different.

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Finally Checked out a Talalay Topper 17 Nov 2013 13:29 #7

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Hi Clawdia,

So if were PLB's blend, the tag would have read "100% Talalay latex", and that would still have been a correct labeling? PLB confuses me . . .


It could either say 100% latex or 100% talalay latex and both would be correct (because the material is latex and also Talalay latex) but the "natural" would be missing because it would only be about 30% natural.

But the real question I had - if I feel like I was sinking all the way thru a topper, would it be possible for it to do any good as far as pressure point relief if it were actually on my mattress and I slept on it regularly?


Yes ... it would provide some "padding" under your pressure points so it would reduce pressure points under specific parts of your body (the "padding" would increase the surface area under the hips which spreads weight over a wider area and reduces pressure) but it can also reduce the amount you sink into the latex itself and is less resilient than latex so the weight would be redistributed over a smaller area than with latex. Both wool and down will also create less shear forces on the skin (the elasticity of latex can "pull or stretch" the skin in some cases) which can make for a more "relaxed" sleeping surface with less 'tension".

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Finally Checked out a Talalay Topper 17 Nov 2013 13:33 #8

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Perhaps I'm phrasing this question incorrectly.

Do other people sink all the way thru a soft Talalay topper (or even 'comfort layer'), or is it just me, or just because the 2" very soft PLB topper I tried was too soft even for me? Should one be able to feel the top layer of the mattress thru a topper?

I actually didn't expect to run across anything I thought could be considered "too soft", so therefore I don't know how to correctly extrapolate what benefit might be gained from a topper that allows one's hips to sink thru to the next layer - I'm so confused at this point that I don't know but what that's the way things are supposed to work.

My hips still don't hurt today - my back is a different matter, but as I said, I'm sure that it was throwing my alignment off somewhat, so I'll not be trying this combination but another few nights, long enough to see if the hip pain stays gone.

At this point, I am really leaning towards getting a 3" low (but perhaps not lowest) ILD Talalay topper. I can't afford but one major (as in, $$$ major) tweak to this mattress, so I have to get it right the first time. Guess I'll start searching for the least expensive version of what I think I need.

Can people feel the difference between blended Talalay and all natural Talalay? I'd love to know if anyone had tried both in the same ILD, and what comparison could be offered.

I'm thinking about trying to call Shaun at SleepEZ to see what he recommends, and if he can answer this last set of questions about Talalay. If anyone has a suggestion about a different vendor with whom I should speak, I'm open to suggestions.

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Finally Checked out a Talalay Topper 17 Nov 2013 13:38 #9

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Hi Clawdia,

So if were PLB's blend, the tag would have read "100% Talalay latex", and that would still have been a correct labeling? PLB confuses me . . .


It could either say 100% latex or 100% talalay latex and both would be correct (because the material is latex and also Talalay latex) but the "natural" would be missing because it would only be about 30% natural.

But the real question I had - if I feel like I was sinking all the way thru a topper, would it be possible for it to do any good as far as pressure point relief if it were actually on my mattress and I slept on it regularly?


Yes ... it would provide some "padding" under your pressure points so it would reduce pressure points under specific parts of your body (the "padding" would increase the surface area under the hips which spreads weight over a wider area and reduces pressure) but it can also reduce the amount you sink into the latex itself and is less resilient than latex so the weight would be redistributed over a smaller area than with latex. Both wool and down will also create less shear forces on the skin (the elasticity of latex can "pull or stretch" the skin in some cases) which can make for a more "relaxed" sleeping surface with less 'tension".

Phoenix


Hey Phoenix - looks like we were typing at the same time!

When I said "topper", I was meaning a Talalay topper, so that might change your answer about me "sinking into the latex", etc., since it would all be latex were I to add a Talalay topper. I think I've narrowed my preferred choice down to a Talalay topper since I didn't like the feel of the featherbed last night, and if I have to choose only one place to throw money, it's far more likely to be at Talalay latex than at wool.

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Finally Checked out a Talalay Topper 17 Nov 2013 14:54 #10

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Hi Clawdia,

When I said "topper", I was meaning a Talalay topper, so that might change your answer about me "sinking into the latex", etc., since it would all be latex were I to add a Talalay topper.


A Talalay latex topper would provide pressure relief over a wider surface area than either wool or down because it will re-distribute weight over a larger percentage of the body surface.

Softer latex is generally more pressure relieving than firmer latex until the maximum weight re-distribution is achieved and beyond this more softness or thickness may have little benefit. Of course thicker and softer comfort layers can also have more risk in terms of alignment issues because the heavier parts of your body can sometimes sink down too far before being "stopped" by the firmer support layers.

Most people wouldn't notice much difference between a single layer of 100% natural Talalay and blended Talalay but in the same ILD ... the 100% natural is denser and has a higher compression modulus so would be more "supportive" while the blended Talalay is less dense and has a lower compression modulus and would be more pressure relieving ... at least in most cases. The blended will also be more durable in lower ILD's. Both of them have the same OekoTex certification for "safety" and offgassing.

Phoenix
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