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Final decision on BB vs SF 25 Aug 2013 13:59 #1

  • amr2625
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Hi Phoenix,

I want to first say thank you for the invaluable information your website offers for such an important purchase for everyone. This site is top notch and I'll be sure to refer all my friends here to help with their future mattress purchases.

I tend to like a softer "feel" to a bed and have been leaning towards either Brooklyn Bedding or Select Foam for their versions of the Cloud Luxe and Cloud Supreme. When I contacted Select Foam, the customer service rep was adamant about steering me away from either of these mattresses and more towards their Grandis and Aurora given my body structure and sleeping preference(6ft 4in, 195lbs, wide shoulders, athletic build, and a side sleeper). I have been unable to try the Grand or Allura on a showroom but was wondering if you felt this recommendation to be justified? It is my understanding that the higher density of the foams used in these will last longer, but would the 5" comfort layer of the Grandis be too much? Also, is it safer to err on the side of caution and go w/ a slightly firmer feel given that the mattress may "wear in" some?

Secondly in regards to the BB Cool Supreme, would the initial 1.5" 4lb gel memory foam of the comfort layer be too low for my body weight of 195lb?

Any input you or anyone could give regarding these choices would be greatly appreciated!!

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Final decision on BB vs SF 25 Aug 2013 21:46 #2

Amr2625,

I have the Select Foam Cirrius Luxe and I'm shorter than you and much heavier. I am also a slide sleeper and I love the mattress. If you like the Tempurpedic Cloud Luxe, you'll love the Select Foam mattress.

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Final decision on BB vs SF 26 Aug 2013 04:20 #3

  • Justso
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Amr2625,

I too just purchased the SF Cirrus Luxe ES-13 and am on my 4th night with it. I have the same body composition as you do, we're almost identical in height, body frame size except I'm a little heavier than you are. I'm a side sleeper as well and this bed is amazing. Something to consider here is that SF offers one of the best return policies in the industry that I could find, short of a retail point-of-purchase store that would come out same day & pick the mattress up and drop a new one off. So you have very little "risk" involved if you override their recommendation and get the bed you're thinking would work best for you. Without knowing the dynamics of the conversation you had with SF and why they're recommending the Grandis or Aurora, I can't offer a counter point argument to their recommendation. Maybe call up Peter and specifically ask why he's steering you towards the Grandia/Aurora and then report back here.

However, I would make every effort to find a Tempur Pedic dealer and lay on the TP equivalent to SF's mattresses to get an idea of how they feel. Descriptions on how a mattress feels by someone else, in my estimation, is a waste of time, which is why during my buying process I didn't put much stock into all the reviews that heralded this mattress or that mattress.


.

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Last edit: by Justso.

Final decision on BB vs SF 26 Aug 2013 05:12 #4

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Thank you both for the feedback. The reasoning for the recommendations from SF were as follows;
1.) Given my weight, the durability of the Luxe model may only last 4-5 years before breakdown, while the Grandis and Aurora could last up to 20 years due to the higher density foam.
2.) What initially feels comfortable and soft in the showroom may not give me the adequate spinal support I need based off my measurements.
3.) You can always make a firm mattress softer.

I spoke to a rep at Brooklyn Bedding as well and he steered me towards the Cool Supreme model based on the points of spinal support and the ability to make it softer with a topper. The nearest store to me w/ both a TEMPUR Grand and Allura on the floor to try is a little over an hour away. I plan on making the trip down tonight after work to see if the comfort feel of these would be as good or better for me.

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Final decision on BB vs SF 26 Aug 2013 13:56 #5

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Hi amr2625,

I have been unable to try the Grand or Allura on a showroom but was wondering if you felt this recommendation to be justified?


Yes ... they know their own mattresses better than anyone and the goal of every good manufacturer is to help you choose the most suitable mattress that they offer both in the short term and in the long term.


Each manufacturer can have very strong views about which of their specific mattress may be most suitable for any specific person based on their knowledge and experience with their own mattresses with different types of people. In most cases "strong recommendations" are based on what they know about their customer and on the specifics of the information you have given them and what they believe you would be most happy with in the long term. These are always based on their "best efforts" because the goal of every good manufacturer or retailer is the long term satisfaction of their customers. You can read more about this in post #8 here .

It is my understanding that the higher density of the foams used in these will last longer, but would the 5" comfort layer of the Grandis be too much?


Higher density foams are not only generally more durable but they also tend to have a higher compression modulus which means they get firmer faster than foams that are lower density and can be more supportive. The suitability of a mattress depends entirely on how well itd keeps you aligned and relieves pressure in all your sleeping positions and tthe thickness of the layers are only one part of all the many factors that are part of the "best" design for each person. 5" of softer lower density materials could well be too much but 5" of different types of foam may well be perfect depending on the type of foam and the particular properties of each layer and how they all interact together.

1.) Given my weight, the durability of the Luxe model may only last 4-5 years before breakdown, while the Grandis and Aurora could last up to 20 years due to the higher density foam.


What they are talking about here is the loss of comfort and support that goes with form softening not the "final breakdown" of the material itself. Higher density foams are more durable than lower density foams and they keep their original properties for longer. There is more about the many factors that can affect durability in post #4 here and the posts it links to.

2.) Also, is it safer to err on the side of caution and go w/ a slightly firmer feel given that the mattress may "wear in" some?

What initially feels comfortable and soft in the showroom may not give me the adequate spinal support I need based off my measurements.


Unless you test specifically for what I call PPP (Posture and alignment, pressure relief, and Personal preferences) they using effective testing methods wuch as the guidelines I suggest (linked in post #1 here ) you chances of predicting your long term experience based on testing may not be high. If you only test a mattress for "subjective comfort" then there is some good evidence that your odds of making a suitable purchase are less than random chance alone (see this study ).

All mattresses will also go through an initial softening period over the first 30 - 90 days or so as foams lose some of their initial "false loft" or firmness, materials settle, and the cover stretches. You will also go through an adjustment period as your body will get used to a different sleeping surface. Both of these happen together and in general they are in the range of 30 days or less but sometimes ... especially in the case of higher density foams ... it can be longer and be up to about 90 days or so.

3.) You can always make a firm mattress softer.


This is also very true. A mattress that is too firm can be fine tuned by adding a topper but a mattress that is too soft can only be effectively "fixed" by replacing layers not by adding something on top of them.

Secondly in regards to the BB Cool Supreme, would the initial 1.5" 4lb gel memory foam of the comfort layer be too low for my body weight of 195lb?


Evey layer of a mattress acts in combination with every other layer and both the suitability and the durability of a mattress depends on how all the layers interact together and with your particular body type. It's certainly true that 4 lb memory foam is not as durable as 5 lb memory foam if you consider the material independently but it's also true that nothing is as durable as sleeping on the floor and every type of foam can provide benefits that are part of a particular design in a suitable thickness and position in the mattress. There are many factors involved with durability besides just the density of the foam and with a 1.5" layer of medium density memory foam and your weight it's unlikely that it would have a significant effect on the durability of the mattress if the rest of the design was suitable for you.

Ovrall ... I would listen carefully to the guidance of each manufacturer because they know more about their own mattresses than anyone else and then use your own "best judgement" when you make your final choice .

As Justso also mentioned ... both BB and SF have a money back policy where they pay for the return shipping so they both have a great deal of "incentive" to provide their best guidance :)

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Final decision on BB vs SF 28 Aug 2013 06:33 #6

  • amr2625
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Thanks for the feedback Phoenix. I contacted SelectFoam again but this time talked to Peter. While Juan originally steered me in the direction of the Grandis and Regalis, Peter's opinion was that the Cirrus Luxe would be the best fit for me based on my size and sleep preference (6'4", 195lbs, broad shoulders, side sleeper). He feels the comfort layer of the Luxe will allow me to sink in a bit more into the mattress to compensate for my shoulder width. His second choice was the Regalis, however he felt the Luxe would still offer me better support. At this point I'm really sitting on the fence between the two models. My fear with the Luxe is that it will become "too soft" over time and not give me the proper alignment and support. If the Regalis has too firm of a feel, it seems using a memory foam topper to soften it defeats the purpose of finding the "right" mattress fit. The Regalis may also be a mattress that may offer me better support after the break-in period. The specs of the models in consideration are as follows, as listed on the corresponding sites;

SelectFoam Regalis-HD 12"
- 1.5" 7lb Soy SELECT-HD™ Memory Foam
- 2.5" 5lb Soy SELECT™ Gel Foam Support Layer

SelectFoam Cirrus Luxe-ES 13"
- 2.5" 4lb soy SELECT-ES™ gel memory foam
- 2" 8lb soy SELECT-HD™ gel foam support layer

BrooklynBedding PureCool Luxe
- 1.5" PureCool™ 5lb Memory Foam
- 2" 4lb Gel-Infused Memory Foam
- 2" 5lb Memory Foam
- 7.5" of 2.17lb BB HD Foam Core

Brooklyn Bedding PureCool Symphony (Incomplete specs on website)
- 4.5" of Super Cool Memory Foam
- "High quality" 5lb comfort layer
- High Quality 2.17lb BB HD Foam

Further information given by Peter was that the Regalis HD is in between the Rhapsody and Rhapsody Breeze in regards to "softness feel". Any feedback between these 4 models in comparison from owners or a more educated eye than myself would be greatly appreciated, as well as more complete specs. Also wondering if anyone has any long term experience with any of these mattresses beyond the 30-90 day break in period and how they responded. And finally, if owners of the Regalis or Cirrus find either of them to sleep "hot".

I would also like to add that Peter at SF was great to talk with on the phone. He was very informative, took a lot of time to answer questions, and I never felt like he was pushing for a sale. The customer service thus far with both SF and BB has been very good.

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Final decision on BB vs SF 28 Aug 2013 08:52 #7

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Thanks for the feedback Phoenix. I contacted SelectFoam again but this time talked to Peter. While Juan originally steered me in the direction of the Grandis and Regalis, Peter's opinion was that the Cirrus Luxe would be the best fit for me based on my size and sleep preference (6'4", 195lbs, broad shoulders, side sleeper). He feels the comfort layer of the Luxe will allow me to sink in a bit more into the mattress to compensate for my shoulder width. His second choice was the Regalis, however he felt the Luxe would still offer me better support. At this point I'm really sitting on the fence between the two models. My fear with the Luxe is that it will become "too soft" over time and not give me the proper alignment and support. If the Regalis has too firm of a feel, it seems using a memory foam topper to soften it defeats the purpose of finding the "right" mattress fit. The Regalis may also be a mattress that may offer me better support after the break-in period. The specs of the models in consideration are as follows, as listed on the corresponding sites;

SelectFoam Regalis-HD 12"
- 1.5" 7lb Soy SELECT-HD™ Memory Foam
- 2.5" 5lb Soy SELECT™ Gel Foam Support Layer

SelectFoam Cirrus Luxe-ES 13"
- 2.5" 4lb soy SELECT-ES™ gel memory foam
- 2" 8lb soy SELECT-HD™ gel foam support layer

BrooklynBedding PureCool Luxe
- 1.5" PureCool™ 5lb Memory Foam
- 2" 4lb Gel-Infused Memory Foam
- 2" 5lb Memory Foam
- 7.5" of 2.17lb BB HD Foam Core

Brooklyn Bedding PureCool Symphony (Incomplete specs on website)
- 4.5" of Super Cool Memory Foam
- "High quality" 5lb comfort layer
- High Quality 2.17lb BB HD Foam

Further information given by Peter was that the Regalis HD is in between the Rhapsody and Rhapsody Breeze in regards to "softness feel". Any feedback between these 4 models in comparison from owners or a more educated eye than myself would be greatly appreciated, as well as more complete specs. Also wondering if anyone has any long term experience with any of these mattresses beyond the 30-90 day break in period and how they responded. And finally, if owners of the Regalis or Cirrus find either of them to sleep "hot".

I would also like to add that Peter at SF was great to talk with on the phone. He was very informative, took a lot of time to answer questions, and I never felt like he was pushing for a sale. The customer service thus far with both SF and BB has been very good.


Amr2625,

The Cirrus Luxe ES-13 sleeps noticeably cooler than my old memory foam mattress it replaced. This mattress does not sleep hot at all. If you want more information on my thoughts, you can check out my ongoing review here . I will post my 7 day thoughts this weekend on the mattress. Peter also told me the Cirrus Luxe would be fine for me, and as I said previously in this post, my body type is very similar to yours. My thoughts thus far, just to summarize in one sentence is that this bed feels just like the Cloud Luxe I laid on for 30 minutes at the mattress store. Knowing what SF puts into their mattress, and the quality of the construction which is noticeable and very elegant, coupled with the value of the asking price, this is much better in almost every category than the Cloud Luxe.

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Final decision on BB vs SF 28 Aug 2013 11:57 #8

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Hi amr2625,

Your own personal testing and/or experience is the most accurate way to know how suitable a mattress is for your specific needs and preferences. Outside of that ... more detailed conversations (such as the ones you've had) with a manufacturer is the best way to choose and the more information you can provide them the better they can help guide you (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ). As you have discovered, different people (even when they are all "experts" at what they do) will have different suggestions based on their individual experiences and on the specifics and level of detail of the information that is exchanged in that specific phone call (see the previous post #8 here that I linked). There are so many unknowns and variables that there is no "formula" that can predict how any specific person will feel or interact with a specific mattress that can possibly be more accurate than their own experience.

In the end ... suggestions from an online manufacturer are really "best efforts" based on the averages of many customers and again only your own experience when you sleep on the mattress can confirm that their suggestions are the most suitable for your specific needs and preferences. This is why your options after a purchase can be an important part of the "value" of an online purchase (and all of the mattresses you are considering have free return options so the risk of a less than ideal choice is much lower).

The mattresses you are looking at all have a rough "equivalent" in the Tempurpedic lineup so careful and objective testing of the equivalent Tempurpedics will also give you a very good idea of the level of comfort and support for each mattress you are considering and I would try to find the equivalent Tempurpedic model so you can use your own testing experience as a reference point for the suggestions you are receiving.

While 4 lb memory foam is less durable than 5 lb memory foam ... at your weight that shouldn't be a real issue but of course that will also depend on all the other factors that are involved in the durability of a mattress (see post #4 here ). Slightly less durable materials that have specific properties that provide you with better sleep is a worthwhile tradeoff when it's compared to a slightly more durable mattress that isn't nearly as suitable for your specific needs and preferences. None of the mattresses you are considering have any obvious "weak links" and at your weight I wouldn't be particularly concerned with the durability of any of your choices and would be more focused on the suitability of the mattress for your specific needs and preferences so you can make the best final choice for you.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Final decision on BB vs SF 28 Aug 2013 12:27 #9

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Thank you both for the feedback. Justso, I have been following your updated thread and your feedback has really been making feel better about purchasing the Luxe. In regards to your response Phoenix, I have now tried and tested every Tempurpedic model. The Luxe definitely has the most comfortable feel and I have no pressure points. Objectively the rhapsody provides me w/ better spinal alignment through picture. Therein lies my only dilemma. I plan on corresponding w/ SF again and hopefully testing those two models one more time before purchase. I appreciate all the advice you both have given.

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Final decision on BB vs SF 28 Aug 2013 14:46 #10

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Hi amr2625,

FWIW ... if you are somewhat "torn" between two mattresses then it's usually "safer" to choose the one that provides better alignment or is slightly firmer as long as there are no pressure points that are uncomfortable for you.

Alignment is what people tend to feel when they wake up in the morning and it's a little more difficult to test for even though in most cases it's the most important "need" in a mattress. In terms of pressure relief ... "just enough" in your most pressure prone position and no more is usually the "safest" choice.

Each person also has a "range" of alignment that they will do well with and varying degrees of flexibility that is natural for them (a "ruler straight" spine is not really a possibility) so it may also depend on your own knowledge of how prone or sensitive you may be to back issues if you are "trading" more "subjective comfort" (that is only a preference rather than a necessity) in exchange for a slightly less aligned sleeping position.

Phoenix
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