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Help me choose a mattress with latex comfort layer. 21 Aug 2013 01:09 #1

  • Dan1979
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I want to say first that this is the most useful and biggest amount of information on the internet about mattresses that I could find.
Thank You for existing.

Now to my question. I am in need to buy a new mattress. I got back problems and I have around 220 pounds. I also have problems with hot environments, I always loved moving around in bed for a colder spot. This pretty much gives me the initial requirement that the mattress I need to buy should have a latex top layer. Also, I hate to feel that I am sinking too much in the bed and have difficulties moving to a new spot, however, I would like to sink just as much as is needed to have my shoulder not forcing my head into a bad position, hanging down to the pillow, since I sleep 70% of the time on sides.

Unfortunately my budgets is fairly limited, tho I will do make an effort, as long as I stay in reasonable terms of money/year.
So my options would be:
1. Full Latex: toppers softer latex, and core in tougher latex.
2. Toppers of latex, and support core of different material: polyfoam (probably HR)
3. Toppers of latex, and support core of different material: pocket springs.

Now, due to a few details that I have not found proper information about on the internet, I was unable to decide between the 2.
I would like to know what is needed to get a quality mattress without destroying my budget.
So here comes the questions:

1. I do understand the difference between 100% natural, natural and pure latex, however, I didn't find information that I could trust regarding the organic/non organic latex. Is it really needed, what are the risks, which should I chose to be safe.

2. If I were to go with a full latex mattress, what are the thicknesses of all the layers to ensure a quality comfort and longevity?
All I could find is that top layer should be soft 100% natural talalay latex of 3 inches thickness. But this is just a guess, no pertinent information around. Also about the core, I was unable to find proper information about what thickness is needed or any other details. Also, total thickness of the mattress?

3. If I were to chose a polyfoam core, what is the best choice as money/year? Is a polyfoam with a 2 lbs density a poor choice? What other detail should I take into consideration about this?

4. If I were to chose a pocket spring core, what other details should I ask for in order to ensure longevity? What type of material should be used and what properties should it have for the edges of the bed? I got a friend who got pocket springs core but the edge of the bed collapsed, making it impossible to sleep near the edge of the bed.

I would very much appreciate If you would like to advice me what would you say that would be a very effective money/year, in the situation that I can't afford a full latex mattress.

And once I know what materials/thickness I should look for in a full latex mattress, I will know if I can or not afford it.
Thank You

EDIT: I did read the basic guide and searched a bit on the forum, but thickness related information I was unable to find. Also the explaining of the difference between HR and HD polyfoam doesn't answer my longevity/price question well enough.

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Last edit: by Dan1979.

Help me choose a mattress with latex comfort layer. 21 Aug 2013 12:22 #2

  • phoenix
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Hi Dan1979,

1. I do understand the difference between 100% natural, natural and pure latex, however, I didn't find information that I could trust regarding the organic/non organic latex. Is it really needed, what are the risks, which should I chose to be safe.


Almost all latex whether it is Talalay or Dunlop and 100% synthetic, blended, 100% natural, or organic is certified to the same standard (Oeko-Tex or other similar protocols) for harmful substances and offgassing and I would personally consider all of them to be "safe". You can read a little more about the different types of latex including organic in post #6 here and there is more about GOLS certified organic latex in post #2 here . The importance of organic is really a matter of each person's person's personal criteria and beliefs rather than an issue of performance or safety.

2. If I were to go with a full latex mattress, what are the thicknesses of all the layers to ensure a quality comfort and longevity?
All I could find is that top layer should be soft 100% natural talalay latex of 3 inches thickness. But this is just a guess, no pertinent information around. Also about the core, I was unable to find proper information about what thickness is needed or any other details. Also, total thickness of the mattress?


Post #2 here include links to some of the theory and concepts but these are generic guidelines and not specific to any individual. There is no formula that applies to individuals. In most cases somewhere between 6" and 12" in various layering combinations would be suitable and the most common configurations are usually in the 8" to 9" range. The choice of materials in each layer would be based on which design performs best for you and there certainly isn't any should or shouldn't. Both Dunlop and Talalay in either blended or 100% natural can be used in any layer from top to bottom and some will prefer one and some the other. If a latex mattress of any type provides you with good PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) then it's suitable for you and almost every configuration you can imagine would be some people's favorite. You can read a little more in post #14 here about some of the potential benefits of greater thickness.

3. If I were to chose a polyfoam core, what is the best choice as money/year? Is a polyfoam with a 2 lbs density a poor choice? What other detail should I take into consideration about this?


Everything depends on the design of the entire mattress and the circumstances and use that it's being put to because every layer affects every other layer. In most cases questions that take each layer in isolation without the context of the many other interacting factors involved can be somewhat limiting. The support layers are not generally the weak link of a mattress and the usual guideline would be in the range of 1.8 lb polyfoam or higher in a base layer with less being OK in certain circumstances or with certain uses and higher being the preference in others. If you are in the range of about 2.0 - 2.2 lbs or higher you will have a very high quality base layer that almost certainly won't be the weak link of the mattress in almost any circumstances. "Best" always depends on the person and the specifics of the circumstances and mattress design.

4. If I were to chose a pocket spring core, what other details should I ask for in order to ensure longevity? What type of material should be used and what properties should it have for the edges of the bed? I got a friend who got pocket springs core but the edge of the bed collapsed, making it impossible to sleep near the edge of the bed.


An innerspring ... like a good quality polyfoam base layer ... isn't likely to be the weak link of a mattress. Each type of innerspring can work very well in a certain set of circumstances and with a specific design. You can read a little more about innersprings in this article and in post #10 here but in general I would choose any innerspring where the mattress that used it met all the criteria of your personal value equation . Steel edge support using reinforcing clips or stronger thicker coils at the edges of a mattress is stronger than foam edge support but also more costly (steel is more costly than foam).

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Help me choose a mattress with latex comfort layer. 22 Aug 2013 06:04 #3

  • Dan1979
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I do understand what you mean and I appreciate that you try to open my eyes to actually try to figure out for myself what I want.
My biggest concern is that in my zone there is absolutely no store, and no matter how much I will try I will not be able to see a latex topper mattress for a quite long time. However, if I would know what to look for, I could make a list of stores which are worth to look for and actually go and test.

Most sellers in my country are not really fair to the customers, and I rather not have to risk especially with such a big investment.
What I really want is to get an idea of what would mean a medium sized mattress of all 3 types.
To give you an example, in my country, they sell 2.3 inch latex matress, which is just a tiny bit bigger then what a topper should be.
If I were to go with a 8 9 inch mattress that is full latex, how much would be an average size for the topper? 2 inches? 3 inches? What do most people want is what I am looking for, to make an idea about what is the attitude of the seller, so that I know if they are trying to cheat or not. When I see a salesman trying to sell a mattress with 1 inch latex topper, when almost no one would use that unless the under layer is softer, or if it has more then 2 total layers, then I will know to not consider that a viable option for me.
What I try to do is to learn a bit what are the standard models and sizes, so that I can decide for myself what I can sacrifice and how much, to be able to fit in my budget a long lasting mattress.
I also understand that a pocket spring by itself is not easy to "test" unless you actually go in the store.
Also, most manufacturers won't specify what type of materials and how they actually covering the prings unless they are really trying to make it a selling point for doing it with quality items.
I learned that having polifoam as an edge filler for springs can become a problem if the quality of the foam is not good.

So I would really like to know an example of "average" construction mattresses of all the types:
1. Latex+Latex - how many inches each
2. Poli+latex - how many inches each
3. Pocket Spring+Latex - how many inches each, what material inbetween, what solution for the edge

Thank You,
Dan

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Help me choose a mattress with latex comfort layer. 22 Aug 2013 12:53 #4

  • phoenix
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Hi Dan1979,

I do understand what you mean and I appreciate that you try to open my eyes to actually try to figure out for myself what I want.
My biggest concern is that in my zone there is absolutely no store, and no matter how much I will try I will not be able to see a latex topper mattress for a quite long time. However, if I would know what to look for, I could make a list of stores which are worth to look for and actually go and test.


Post #2 here has links to some of the theory behind different types of designs but these are only generic and not specific to any individual. Either your own personal testing or a more detailed conversation with an online retailer or manufacturer that you trust has integrity is the only way to make your design choices. The goal is not so much to design a mattress yourself because this could take years of study and experience but more to trust your own testing or if you aren't able to test a mattress locally then to trust the manufacturer or retailer you are dealing with and that they will give you reliable information.

If I were to go with a 8 9 inch mattress that is full latex, how much would be an average size for the topper? 2 inches? 3 inches?


Normally an 8" - 9" latex mattress doesn't need a topper. It would have a combination of a firmer latex core and a softer latex comfort layer. The typical size for a latex core is 5.5" - 6" (that's the size of the mold they are poured in) and then the top layer on top of this (for those that need it at all) would be in the range of 2" - 3". The firmness level of both the support core and the top layer would depend on the person and their body type, sleeping style, and their personal preferences. There are no "rules" or "theory at a distance" that can predict with any certainty how a mattress will feel of perform for any particular person. People are just too different.

What I try to do is to learn a bit what are the standard models and sizes, so that I can decide for myself what I can sacrifice and how much, to be able to fit in my budget a long lasting mattress.


The durability of a mattress will depend on the materials (see post #4 here for the different factors that are involved in durability). The suitability of a mattress in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) depends on the design. If a design is suitable for you (regardless of materials) and the materials are good quality then the feel and performance of the mattress will last much longer. You can test for the suitability of a mattress but you need to know the materials inside it to know whether they are durable and this information would come from the retailer or manufacturer.

Also, most manufacturers won't specify what type of materials and how they actually covering the prings unless they are really trying to make it a selling point for doing it with quality items.


I personally wouldn't buy a mattress if I didn't know the specifics of what was inside it well enough that I could identify any weak links in the mattress. There are many manufacturers who will tell you what you need to make an informed desicion and many who won't ... I would only deal with the ones who will.

1. Latex+Latex - how many inches each


There are no rules here. In most cases it will be somewhere in between 6 and 12 inches depending on the design that works best for you. Post #4 here has more about the effect of thickness and some of the previous links have much more information about different mattress designs. Post #7 here may also be worth reading.

2. Poli+latex - how many inches each


Again the thickness of each layer is only one of many factors that will determine the feel of the mattress and by itself has little meaning. In very simple basic constructions you would typically see about 2" to 4" of latex over a polyfoam support layer but this will depend on all the different factors that are involved in designing a mattress.

3. Pocket Spring+Latex - how many inches each, what material inbetween, what solution for the edge


There are too many types of pocket springs to even be able to begin to speculate because each of the hundreds of different versions may need a different combination of foam on top. I personally prefer steel edge support (such as firmer coils around the edge) but if it is polyfoam then higher density would be more durable (1.8 lbs and higher).

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Help me choose a mattress with latex comfort layer. 24 Aug 2013 08:13 #5

  • Dan1979
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After quite some time invested in searching over the internet I am pretty sure that I just can't find a viable option price wise. However, I would very much like if you could advice me towards some vendors that do sell mattresses with talalay topper + harder latex core.

However, I did find a pretty nice offer that has the following characteristics:
- Allergy neutral Oeko Tex Standard 100
- EuroLatex Eco Standard
- 7-zone latex mattress = 15 cm LATEXCO NATURE latex core - is the only layer
- total height of the mattress is 18 cm
- Hardness I can chose between H2 RG 75 and H3 RG 80
- mattress has a share of 85% natural latex and synthetic latex share of 15%

How would you define this mattress compared to the general preference, any words on its resistence, any advice on the hardness choice, and how do you feel about its quality, health related.
Thank You

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Help me choose a mattress with latex comfort layer. 24 Aug 2013 14:35 #6

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Hi Dan1979,

After quite some time invested in searching over the internet I am pretty sure that I just can't find a viable option price wise. However, I would very much like if you could advice me towards some vendors that do sell mattresses with talalay topper + harder latex core.


Unfortunately I'm not familiar with any of the markets outside of the USA and Canada. Post #21 here has a list of the members of this site that sell online and if you call them some of them maybe able to ship internationally.

How would you define this mattress compared to the general preference, any words on its resistence, any advice on the hardness choice, and how do you feel about its quality, health related.


Post #2 here has more information about making suitable firmness choices but your own personal testing or on more detailed conversations with a manufacturer are the best way to choose the mattress that is most suitable for your body type and sleeping style.

The material itself would be a good quality and durable material. Almost all latex ( including Latexco ) is certified through OekoTex or other reliable testing certifications such as Eco-Institut and I would have no issues with the safety of the material.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Help me choose a mattress with latex comfort layer. 24 Aug 2013 16:44 #7

  • Dan1979
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A list of USA sellers is just fine, at least I am able to say "this is the list with most of them".

I understand the safety part, so is just fine.

What I am afraid however, is the fact that 6 inch would be just too low, and a seller would just try to tell me the opposite to sell his product.
I was thinking as a general idea, is a 6 inch mattress that has that specified hardness actually worth it? Or should I start looking at latex+foam/springs?

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Help me choose a mattress with latex comfort layer. 24 Aug 2013 17:59 #8

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Hi Dan1979,

What I am afraid however, is the fact that 6 inch would be just too low, and a seller would just try to tell me the opposite to sell his product.
I was thinking as a general idea, is a 6 inch mattress that has that specified hardness actually worth it? Or should I start looking at latex+foam/springs?


This depends entirely on what design is most suitable for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, pressure relief, and Personal preferences). Some people do very well on a 6" mattress and other would choose a different design with more layers. In most cases 8" to 9" is the norm (this has enough thickness for a 6" firmer core and 2" to 3" of softer comfort layers) but anywhere between about 6" and 12" is inside an "average thickness" for a latex mattress.

If you can't test a mattress in person then you really are dependent on the knowledge and experience of the manufacturer or retailer that sells it and their willingness to provide you will accurate information and helpful guidance. It's either one or the other unfortunately.

A list of USA sellers is just fine, at least I am able to say "this is the list with most of them".


The link I provided earlier has a list of the members here that I believe are among the best quality/value in the country . I don't provide a list with "most of the online sellers" because many of them I wouldn't deal with although I'd be happy to make comments about any you come across in your online research outside of these (and many are already mentioned in the forum).

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.
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