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Dr. Breus Signature Elite 05 Aug 2013 20:44 #1

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My wife and I have been mattress shopping and I thought we were going to buy a Tempurpedic Allura. I was concerned about it being difficult to move in which is an issue with our current mattress. After reading many posts on this site I wanted to look at a latex mattress. We tried a Dr. Breus Signature Elite and both loved it. We put a fully refundable deposit down on one, but I am having second thoughts after reading some comments tonight here by Phoenix. How is the quality of this mattress? If it is not the best, where can I get a good quality good value mattress that feels like the Signature Elite? I live in southwest Florida and would only buy a mattress that I could try out beforehand.

Tim

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Dr. Breus Signature Elite 05 Aug 2013 21:19 #2

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Hi timinswfl,

I'm glad you found us and I'm glad you were having second thoughts.

The first place I would start your mattress research is post #1 here which has the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible decision.

As you will see ... I normally suggest avoiding the major brands which tend to use lower quality materals and have much worse value than most of the smaller independent manufacturers around the country.

A mattress is only as good as its construction and the quality of the materials inside it and one of the most important parts of any mattress purchase ... right along with careful and objective testing for PPP (Posture ad alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) ... is making sure you know the quality specs of every layer in your mattress so you can make meaningful quality and value comparisons with other mattresses.

If you are able to find out the specifics of all the layers in the Dr Breus mattresses ... you will find that it only has some latex in it (varying from about 20% or so to about 50% or so) and that the rest of the materials in the mattress is polyfoam. This isn't necessarily bad by itself but if there is lower density polyfoam in the upper layers of your mattress then the odds are much higher that it will soften and break down prematurely no matter what other materials are in the mattress. Many so called "latex mattresses" don't even have a significant amount of latex in them at all. if you look at the law tag of your mattress you will also see the percentage of different materials by weight (and since latex is much heavier than polyfoam the percentage of latex by thickness wold be even less).

Besides the generally lower quality of the materials in most mainstream mattresses in each budget range ... you will also find that these types of "endorsed" mattresses usually have poor value as well compared to similar mattresses that are available in most areas of the country or online.

If you can't find out out the quality of every layer and component in a mattress (which means the order and thickness of each layer from tp to bottom, the foam density of any polyfoam or memory foam layers, and the type and blend of any latex) ... I would pass it by.

A forum search on Dr Breus (you can just click this) will bring up more comments about them as well.

Post #2 here has the better options and possibilities I'm aware of in the SW Florida area (Naples, Ft Myers, Cape Coral)

Phoenix
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Dr. Breus Signature Elite 06 Aug 2013 05:52 #3

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Hi Phoenix,

Thanks for the quick reply. I should have given a little more information. I have already read (multiple times for all of these) post #1, searched the forum for Dr Breus, and post #2. Post #2 is what I was using to look locally for latex mattresses. When I originally went through your listings in post #2 I skipped the first manufacturer (mattersbrothers) because of your comments about lack of knowledge of the salespeople. The 2nd and 3rd were skipped initially because of the distance they are from my location, but I did plan to come back to them once I had a better idea what I was looking for after trying out some latex mattresses nearby. So last night when we went shopping we went to Naples Mattress first. I thought this would be perfect since they carry Tempurpedic and also latex mattresses (Pure Latex Bliss) and we could compare side by side the latex mattress with the one we have liked the best so far in our search, which was the Tempurpedic Allura. After speaking to the Naples Mattress salesman over the phone, he pointed me to the Celebrate hybrid latex. We tried that one as well as the Worlds Best Bed, so the firmest and the softest latex beds they had. We didn't really like either one. My wife felt like if she laid down too hard she would bounce up in the air because they were so springy. There was an Icomfort and the Allura my wife liked better than the latex, so we were still leaning towards the Tempurpedic. (If we ended up still liking the Allura the best, I was not planning on buying a Tempurpedic, but trying to find the same feel for a better value like the SelectFoam Aurora). Our 2nd stop was Nirvana Mattress where the latex was the Dr. Breus. We tried the Signature and the Signature Elite and after trying literally 100s of mattresses over the last couple of months, the Elite was the first one we both really loved. It was also the first one my wife liked better than the Allura and even her second choice before was not close to the Allura, so this was really significant. My wife liked it so much she wanted to buy it right then, but I wanted to do some research. I had read a little about Dr. Breus before we left since I knew we were going to try one, but I wanted to research more. But she really wanted this one after trying all of these mattresses and finally finding one that we both agreed on. So I compromised and agreed to put a fully refundable deposit down to lock in the sale they had going on (free adjustable frame). From your comments about Dr. Brues there are some quality components but also some unknown components so there is 2 issues- a risk of sagging and a poor value (paying too much for what is in the mattress). I knew that before, but at the same time I am not going to buy a Pure Latex Bliss when I don't like the feel of it nearly as well as the Dr. Breus. So my plan is to call the two manufacturers on the list today and see if they have a mattress that will feel similar to the Signature Elite, but with known, quality materials. I assume there is not a SelectFoam in the latex world that makes mattresses to try and mimic the Dr. Breus?

Thanks,

Tim

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Dr. Breus Signature Elite 06 Aug 2013 09:18 #4

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Hi timinswfl,

I had read a little about Dr. Breus before we left since I knew we were going to try one, but I wanted to research more. But she really wanted this one after trying all of these mattresses and finally finding one that we both agreed on.

From your comments about Dr. Brues there are some quality components but also some unknown components so there is 2 issues- a risk of sagging and a poor value (paying too much for what is in the mattress). I knew that before, but at the same time I am not going to buy a Pure Latex Bliss when I don't like the feel of it nearly as well as the Dr. Breus.


Yes ... you are right on both counts. The real problem with mattresses like these where you don't know the details of what is inside them is that no matter how it feels in the showroom you have no way of knowing how it may feel in a year or two down the road. Without the ability to identify any potential weak links in the mattress (usually too much lower density/quality polyfoam or other materials in the comfort layers) ... you could end up with a very expensive mattress (more costly than many other mattresses that use the same materials) that softens and breaks down too quickly without any recourse (warranties only cover impressions and factory defects ... not the loss of comfort or support that goes with foam softening).

Of course I also wouldn't purchase a mattress that wasn't suitable in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) no matter what the quality of the materials were. Something that you don't like or isn't suitable that uses good quality materials that last for a long time will only maintain the feel and performance that you don't like for a long time :)

So my plan is to call the two manufacturers on the list today and see if they have a mattress that will feel similar to the Signature Elite, but with known, quality materials. I assume there is not a SelectFoam in the latex world that makes mattresses to try and mimic the Dr. Breus?


Unfortunately there are no manufacturers that target the Dr Breus lineup in terms of their design or feel that I'm aware of (although there are many manufacturers that use the same materials in their mattresses in different designs). I don't think any manufacturer would consider that the Dr Breus line was available widely enough, popular enough, or high enough quality to make it a worthwhile design goal even if the layers were known so any comparisons would need to be based on "feel" alone in side by side testing. While another mattress may feel similar based on subjective comparisons ... this also wouldn't tell you anything about the quality of the materials or how long the similar "feel" will last.

As you can read in post #2 here about "mattress matching" ... I would tend to use a common set of criteria as a common standard for all mattresses you test which can help you identify why you like each one rather than trying to match one mattress to another based on subjective perceptions that can vary with both time and circumstances.

I would also suggest that you test for much more than just subjective 'feel" or "comfort" alone and test as carefully, objectively, and specifically as possible for both alignment and pressure relief which are the two most important functions of a mattress that contribute the most to the quality of your sleep over the long term.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Dr. Breus Signature Elite 08 Aug 2013 11:23 #5

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I just received the manufacturers specs for the Signature Elite which I will attach. The specific one we like is the Signature Elite 2. How do you view the quality of the listed layers from the manufacturer? Or do I still need more information?

Tim

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Dr. Breus Signature Elite 08 Aug 2013 16:27 #6

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Hi timinswfl,

Thanks for posting the specs for both the mattresses you listed. You are the first one I've seen that was able to find them :)

Signature Elite 1:

8 oz safeguard Fibers: this is the fire barrier.

1" 1.5 lb polyfoam 10 ILD: This is soft polyfoam used in the quilting and if that's all the polyfoam there was in the comfort layers it would be within the guidelines I normally use for lower quality polyfoam (under 1.8 lbs) in the comfort layers. If other layers put the total of lower density polyfoam in the upper layers to 2" or more then I would be very cautious in terms of durability.

1" - 2" 60K 19 ILD latex: This isn't clear whether there are two layers that total 1" or if there are two 1" layers (totalling 2") but I believe it would be a total of 2". They also don't mention the type or blend of the latex (which I would want to know) but it would be a good quality material. Based on the comment of "with holes" then it may be a Dunlop supplied by Latexco (who punches holes in their Continuous pour Dunlop as an option after it is poured) but this is only speculation.

7/8" 1.45 lb polyfoam 18 IFD: This puts the total of lower density polyfoam over 2" and even though this is lower in the mattress and under the latex which would inprove it's durability ... it is still well within the depth of compression for most people where it's durability in combination with the layers above it would be an issue

1 1/4" 1.45 lb polyfoam 23 IFD: Same comments as the layer above. This for me would clearly put it over the line of a mattress I would be comfortable with and would only consider in a one sided mattress in a low budget range. It is certainly not suitable for a premium mattress.

2.8" 60K Latex with 6" foam side rails: Same comments as the latex in the upper layer except the polyfoam side rails used for edge support are much more likely to break down than the latex and are a cost cutting and design feature that I would prefer not to have (I would use firmer latex for edge support if you choose to use it on a latex layer so it will have the same durability). By the time you reach this layer of the mattress then there is already too much lower density polyfoam in the layers above it to have any reasonable expectation of good durability.

3.5" x 2.5" x 2 layers = 7" of 1.8 lb convoluted polyfoam: The 3.5 is the peak height and the 2.5" is the valley height of the convolute. While convoluted polyfoam is less durable than non convoluted ... I would still consider this to be a suitable base layer but this wouldn't be nearly as important in terms of durability as the layers above it.

For a mattress in this price range ... I would certainly avoid it.


Signature Elite 2: This has exactly the same type of foam layers except some of them are firmer so would be more durable to some degree but this mattress would still be much too risky with this much polyfoam of this density in the upper layers.

Overall both of these have 3 1/8" of lower density polyfoam in the top cushioning layers which is more than the guideline I would use of "around an inch or so" in total) and would certainly be a "weak link" in the mattress. In a budget range which is more costly than many all latex mattresses ... I certainly wouldn't consider them.

Thanks so much for adding this information to the forum as a reference for others that may be considering any of the Dr Breus line.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Dr. Breus Signature Elite 09 Aug 2013 05:58 #7

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Phoenix,

" 1" - 2" 60K 19 ILD latex: This isn't clear whether there are two layers that total 1" or if there are two 1" layers (totalling 2") but I believe it would be a total of 2". They also don't mention the type or blend of the latex "

It is 2 layers of 1 inch "pure, natural Talalay latex" according to the website.

It is confusing that you would recommend Nirvana Mattress in your post for southwest Florida, yet advise against the only latex mattress brand that they carry. Seems like you should remove that recommendation from your post.

Tim

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Dr. Breus Signature Elite 09 Aug 2013 13:33 #8

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Hi timinswfl,

I don't "recommend" any specific retailers or manufacturers outside of the members of this site . The many lists in the forum are the results of preliminary research and in many cases phone calls or more detailed research that can help the members here follow the steps and guidelines in post #1 here (such as the mattress shopping guidelines here ) without the frustration and "information overwhelm" that can come from mattress shopping.

The steps are designed to help you with "how" to choose but "what" to choose (whether it's a retailer or a mattress) depends on the results of your further research, phone calls, and testing. The retailers I list (and the brands I list beside them) are included because they are more likely to be able to provide you with the specifics of what is in each mattress and have higher odds of being better quality/value so you can make more meaningful quality and value comparisons with other mattresses. In the case of Nirvana Mattress ... their "house brand" was the one that I suggested may be worth including in your research but only if they could provide the specifics of the layering so you could compare them to other mattresses you tested or were interested in. Almost all the retailers or manufacturers I list also carry mainstream brands (such as the Dr Breus) that I would generally suggest be avoided (and aren't included in the brands that are included in the listings).

Apparently Nirvana Mattress has discontinued their house brand so the only mattress I listed that I would consider there is no longer available although they did tell me when I talked with them today that they will soon have a new gel memory foam line made by Classic Brands called Dormia that would be their new "house brand" that may also be worth considering (I've changed the comments beside them to reflect this).

Thanks for letting me know so I could update the list :)

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.
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