TOPIC:

Hey everyone!

A while ago I did a ton of research about latex mattresses and I was really impressed with Dreamfoam.

Last week my father mentioned he was in the market for two new mattresses and I didn't hesitate to send him to their Amazon site. We spoke yesterday and said he had two Eurotop mattresses ordered. Though I had advised him to get one at time just to make sure he liked it, he's impulsive and I think was enamored with Chuck!

I'm kind of starting to regret that advice. I just came across all the info about the changes to the base layer from 2.35lb to 1.5lb. Frankly I'm a bid mad. It's a pet peeve of mine when businesses use the 'get the name out there with high quality and low margins, then revise downward once there's good word of mouth'. In this case though, I feel it's worse because the product name and all the reviews remained the same. That just seems dishonest to me.

I wish I had revised my due diligence more before recommending to him, but on the surface I had no reason to suspect anything had changed.

Anyway, as it turns out, they have free returns in the box is unopened. Looking at the Brooklyn bedding site, which I believe is basically run by the same people, I like the Bamboo Bliss more. With the forum discount the price difference for a king is ~$140. That seems like a no-brainer to me. Even without the discount it still would be. More durable base foam and wool+less poly top foam are big selling points in my opinion. Definitely worth $140.

So I'm thinking of advising my dad to send them back when they arrive and getting a couple Bamboo Bliss. Normally I'd feel bad about having Dreamfoam eat the shipping but I'm having a hard time caring as much as I normally would.

So what does everyone think?? Should I talk him into making the switch?? Am I over thinking the differences?

Thanks for your advice.

Hi qtonic,

I think that the value of both mattresses are roughly equivalent (which is typical of the same manufacturer which tends to have similar "value" across their entire lineup).

You can see some of my thoughts about the difference in the density of the base foam in post #14 here .

You can also read Dreamfoam's comments about it in post #4 here .

The tradeoff in other words is that the 1.5 has better performance and for most people is not an issue in terms of durability because the top layers are the "weak link" in a mattress but for those who are in a heavier weight range and "go through" the top layer more then the 2.17 lb polyfoam may make more difference in terms of durability or for those where the better exchange policy or the better materials in the cover of the Bamboo Bliss (which includes wool in the quilting) are more important then the Bamboo Bliss may make the better choice.

Phoenix

I really dislike the way that Dreamfoam (aka Brooklyn Bedding) handled this change. To me, the change to a lower quality foam is a substantial change. This change will affect the way the mattress wears, how it feels and how it's perceived. This newer construction isn't what I purchased over a year ago so why are they still keeping all those reviews for it (mine included)?

I feel that the company should have disclosed or educated it's customers in the product description about this substantial change. They could have disclosed the reasoning behind the change or use marketing techniques to talk about how it preforms with the 1.5 foam. In the comments under my Amazon review (I'm cinnamonsticks), one person pretty much sums it up:

"What happened is bordering on bait and switch. As a business always explain to your customers any changes. Operating like this is sending your customers a negative message. Heck use some marketing jargon to justify the 1.5lbs if you want, but don't switch the product without telling us." - S. Rajagopal

Hi Coventry,

I feel that the company should have disclosed or educated it's customers in the product description about this substantial change.

They are doing both ... and disclosing the details of the material to those who understand the importance of asking (which is an important part of any mattress purchase) and they are in fact educating people about why they believe the current material is better in many ways than the one it replaced (more resilient, better conforming, and for the record not less costly than the previous foam they were using). Like any material there are always pros and cons to its use. In strict durability terms if you were sleeping directly on the support layer then the current foam would be less durable than the previous foam but you don't sleep directly on a support layer and for most people ... the current foam is an improvement in several ways that may even increase value to a customer.

If you talk with them (as every purchaser should be doing with any mattress purchase instead of mostly paying attention to reviews in the first place which is among the worst ways to choose a mattress) then they will both disclose and educate ... to the degree that may in some cases can even cause them harm when those who are only familiar with one aspect of foam quality and performance come to believe that what they know about is the only thing that is important and criticize them (or worse yet change their review) based on limited or incomplete information about the real nature of the change. Would you really be saying the same things or changing your review if you knew that the change was an improvement for most people? I can certainly understand adding the information you did in your review (saying that the mattress has changed since you purchased it) but if the change really is to a better more suitable material in many cases ... then are you so certain you know enough about all the different factors in foam quality to make these kind of judgements and deter people from making a purchase that for them may even be better than the mattress you purchased?

I understand your point certainly and you are not the only one who may feel the way you do if only density is considered but most one dimensional evaluations are usually not that accurate or even meaningful and density is not the only criteria of quality (particularly in a base layer). It's one part of a larger picture. It's also based on some assumptions (that it's an inferior material) that are not accurate or at least incomplete because it is better in some ways and worse in others and is a matter of tradeoffs more than "better / worse" evaluations. For the majority of people it is a better choice ... for a few (that are in heavier weight ranges and "go through" the upper layers more and where the durability of a base layer may be more important) it may be a worse choice.

Sometimes information in a vacuum that only looks at one part of any issue to the exclusion of the rest can end up misleading people as much as it may help them.

"Better for most and worse for some" would be a much more accurate description of the change they made and each person is in the best position to judge for themselves whether this would make a suitable choice for their specific criteria compared to what else is available to them in the current market.

Knowledge can be empowering (and is the fundamental premise of this site) ... but it's a two edged sword and incomplete or partial knowledge can also be self limiting.

Phoenix

I don't see anywhere in the product description where they state they've changed the base layer foam. The fact that they listed the previous foam density information then removed that information since changing it and not disclosing that change, smacks of deception to me. I understand that a consumer can call the company for that information but since this is a purchase over the internet, this information should be disclosed in the item description, as it was in the first place.

I'm really not sure why foam density information should only be available for those customers who call. They listed the foam density previously and it helped them. Obviously, there have been customers who, thinking that there have been no changes to this product, assume they are getting the same product as previous customers. This is untrue and has confused some people. I would be VERY upset if I learned that the product I bought was different from previous ones because no changes were disclosed in the product description except the removal of information to obfuscate possible customers.

Any good business selling mattresses online should eschew obfuscation.