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Latex topper 31 May 2013 09:29 #1

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Hello (Phoenix?)

I'm looking to upgrade my sleeping experience on a tight budget. I'd love to buy a new latex queen size bed, but I can't afford it right now. What I have is a Murphy double/full size bed which is a bit too short for me. My mattress is 8" high, flush with the Murphy box - so my fingers and toes are prone to hitting the hard wood frame. My 40 year old spring mattress is still perfectly firm (remarkably). I also have a like-new 8" memory foam mattress that came with the (second hand) Murphy bed, but it sleeps impossibly hot. But it could make a good base.

So I have two requirements: raising the mattress level by about 3" (the maximum that the Murphy bed will take) and increasing the comfort level. I bought a 1.5 inch wool topper from Yes, It's Organic which I like. I'm thinking of getting a (probably 2") latex topper to put beneath it. I've done a lot of reading on ILDs, Dunlop vs Talalay etc. My best guess so far is a 2" Dunlop topper (I'd probably choose 24-26 ILD) from Jamestown for $239. + shipping (TBD).

Here is Canada, I can get pricier Talalay or Dunlop toppers from Zedbed or Sleepy's In B.C. in the $480. range.

I hope to get this right the first time - as I can't really afford to add more layers beyond this.

BTW - I'm a 5' 10" male, about 160 pounds in decent shape

Thanks,

Miko

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Last edit: by Miko.

Latex topper 31 May 2013 22:22 #2

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Hi Miko,

There are some topper guidelines in post #2 here that may be helpful.

There is also a list of some topper sources that are either in Canada or ship there in post #21 here .

Phoenix
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Latex topper 01 Jun 2013 13:12 #3

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Thanks, Phoenix. I've contacted two Canadian topper sources on your list. The post 2 information was helpful.

Miko

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Latex topper 15 Jun 2013 08:27 #4

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Hi Phoenix,

I've decided to bite the bullet and get a queen size Murphy bed. So now I'm looking for a latex mattress (vs. topper). The Murphy bed will accommodate a mattress up to 11" in height. I've heard that an all-latex mattress lacks the rigidity to stand on end inside a Murphy bed. All-latex is also quite heavy and pricey, so I figure a high-density foam mattress with latex support/comfort layers on top may be the way to go. I'm 5' 10", 160 pounds and I'm mainly a side/stomach sleeper.

Most of the "low-end" latex combo mattresses I've tried (e.g. Zedbed Polar, Balneo) have a 2-4" latex layer on top. On these mattresses, my hips feel comfortable enough, but my shoulders feel "squished". From what I've read (www.plushbeds.com/plushblog/215/latex-mattress-ild-rating/), I should go with a Talalay latex comfort layer with a ILD rating of about 24-26. Here in Montreal, I find Literie Laurier to be quite flexible and affordable. I received the following comments from them (below). Any suggestions before I meet with them this week (and possibly buy a mattress)? I'm hoping to get this right the first time.

As always - thanks so much for the advice.

Michael

From Literie Laurier:

Thanks for your interest.
First the glue is non-toxic, it's a base of water.
Second: We have two options for you.
1st option: 2 inches of latex ILD 21(soft)
2 inches of latex ILD 28 (semi-firm)
5 inches of foam 1832 density of 2 pounds per cubic foot.
Price: $1100 + taxes (delivery included)

2nd option: 3 inches of latex ILD 28 (semi-firm)
5 inches of foam 1832 density of 2 pounds per cubic foot.

Price: $900 + taxes (delivery included)

For your question about the foam, it's not beatheable like the latex.
Any foam or memory foam is made with a base of oil (gas). But like everybody
you probably slept all you life on a mattress made with springs and foam on
top.

If you are interested Michael, we can prepare like a sandwich for you to try
it in the showroom, but you have to let me know at least one day in advance
to prepare it.

Thanking you in advance.

Benoit.

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Latex topper 15 Jun 2013 14:08 #5

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Hi Miko,

Most of the "low-end" latex combo mattresses I've tried (e.g. Zedbed Polar, Balneo) have a 2-4" latex layer on top. On these mattresses, my hips feel comfortable enough, but my shoulders feel "squished". From what I've read (www.plushbeds.com/plushblog/215/latex-mattress-ild-rating/), I should go with a Talalay latex comfort layer with a ILD rating of about 24-26. Here in Montreal, I find Literie Laurier to be quite flexible and affordable. I received the following comments from them (below). Any suggestions before I meet with them this week (and possibly buy a mattress)? I'm hoping to get this right the first time.


As you can see in mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ... I don't believe that using "statistics" or "theory" to choose a mattress is a great idea although they can provide some useful generic guidelines. I also wouldn't use Plushbeds as any kind of "authority" for what may be suitable for you (outside of making a choice between their specific mattresses if you were to make a purchase from them) because every layer interacts and affects every other layer in a mattress. Your own testing or experience (using the guidelines in post #1 here ) is the most reliable way to know which mattress is most suitable for you. The choice between Talalay and Dunlop is a personal preference although Talalay is probably more common in comfort layers (not better) only because it tends to be more widely available in softer versions that many people seem to like but this is also not always the case. Both are commonly used in transition or support layers. I personally prefer the feel of Talalay for example but my daughter much prefers the feel of Dunlop in all her layers (including the comfort layers).

When your shoulders feel squished then it often indicates that you may need a thicker or softer comfort layer to "allow" your shoulders to sink in more deeply but this will also depend on the firmness/softness of the layer below it. Softer support or transition layers often mean you can use thinner comfort layers because the top section of the support or transition layer will also be part of your pressure relieving cradle (the depth you sink into the mattress regardless of the thickness of any specific layer and its ability to conform to the shape of your body).

Here in Montreal, I find Literie Laurier to be quite flexible and affordable. I received the following comments from them (below). Any suggestions before I meet with them this week (and possibly buy a mattress)? I'm hoping to get this right the first time.


Literie Laurier is certainly one of the better quality and value options available in the Montreal area but there are also others (see post #276 here ) that may be worth talking to as well. You are fortunate to have so many good quality manufacturers so close to you.

Thanks for your interest.
First the glue is non-toxic, it's a base of water.
Second: We have two options for you.
1st option: 2 inches of latex ILD 21(soft)
2 inches of latex ILD 28 (semi-firm)
5 inches of foam 1832 density of 2 pounds per cubic foot.
Price: $1100 + taxes (delivery included)


This would certainly be well worth testing but just as a point of clarity ... 1832 polyfoam is 1.8 lb density (the first two numbers) not 2.0 lbs. The last to numbers are the IFD (softness firmness rating) which in this case is 32 (at the bottom of the firm range).

2nd option: 3 inches of latex ILD 28 (semi-firm)
5 inches of foam 1832 density of 2 pounds per cubic foot.

Price: $900 + taxes (delivery included)


This would also be well worth trying and may provide better support under the pelvis (especially for your stomach sleeping) but I would also make sure that the comfort layer wasn't too firm for your shoulders to sink in deeply enough when you are on your side. Firmer and thinner is less risky though for stomach sleeping which carries a much higher risk of sleeping in a swayback position which can often contribute to lower back issues. The goal with combination side / stomach sleeping is "just enough" thickness/softness for pressure relief and to allow your shoulders to sink in far enough on your side so that the alignment risk for stomach sleeping is lower ( you are closer to the support layers which will "stop" the heavier pelvis from sinking down too far and hammocking on your stomach). The more time you spend on your stomach over the course of the night the more you may need to "weight" the specific needs of stomach sleeping.

Phoenix
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Latex topper 15 Jun 2013 15:34 #6

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Thank you so much, Phoenix, for all the good info. I'll let you know how it goes.

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Latex topper 27 Jun 2013 13:54 #7

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Hi Phoenix,

Well - I'm getting there hopefully. So much research. I've found three good sources in MontreaL

To recap: I'm looking for queen size mattress with a 2"-3" latex, gel or memory foam top and a high density foam base. All the options I've found interesting are in the $1000. range. I'm a side and stomach sleeper (with a slight sway back). I'm 5'10", 160 pounds.

The most comfortable mattress off the bat was at Literie Laurier: 2" of gel-infused memory foam from Domfoam International in Montreal on a petroleum-based 1832 density base. The use water-based (non-toxic) glue. I may be a victim of "showroom feel". I worry about off-gassing.

I thought that I would love latex tops (natural product, no off-gassing), but I find all of them (Dunlop and Talalay, multiple ILDs) too bouncy. Like I'm resting on top of the mattress and not in it. When I lie on my side, my hips feel fine on most of the latex-topped mattresses, but my shoulders tend to feel squished or jammed up. I see that you suggested shredded latex. I'll look into that.

At Matelas Selection, I tried a blue water gel foam (? from Italy, I believe) which the owner said is better than the gel-infused stuff. Not as comfortable for me (not memory foam). Water-based glue and a 6" EcoLogix 2.3 lb base (Oeko Tex Class 1, Hyg Cen biocell)

Matelas Excellence had a similar mattress: 2" water gel foam (not as comfortable for me - not memory foam) and a choice of EcoLogix high density bases (German) from 2.3 to 3 lbs.

Finally, I came across

This is interesting: www.nowtoronto.com/columns/ecoholic.cfm?content=167531

Don't know if I'm getting there, after all.

Thanks!

Miko

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Latex topper 27 Jun 2013 14:57 #8

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I live nearby, so I'll drop by Essentia tomorrow, just to see how the mattresses feel. Not that I have two grand plus to spend, but the trip might give me some insight into what I need. Hey! They got a sale on ($100. off). Maybe if they made natural MF top layers for a good price, I'd be interested.

BTW - I did a search of the forum, so I have at least some idea of the debate around the company ;-)

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Last edit: by Miko.

Latex topper 27 Jun 2013 16:50 #9

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Hi Miko,

Maybe if they made natural MF top layers for a good price, I'd be interested.


Making "natural" memory foam is about as likely as a suitcase full of money falling into my lap :)

Phoenix
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Latex topper 27 Jun 2013 16:53 #10

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:)

Any other comments on the search? I'm leaning towards the gel-infused Domfoam International MF top layer (or shredded Talalay, if I can find it here). If I get the MF, I'll try it with my organic cotton/wool topper.

Thanks.

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Last edit: by Miko.
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