>

Welcome to The Mattress Underground FORUM! :cheer:
The first place to start your research is the Mattress Shopping Tutorial
Select the Search Forum tab below to gain access to answers to many mattress related questions.
Select the Ask An Expert tab below to reach out to any of our Expert Members for guidance and advice.

Welcome to The Mattress Underground FORUM! :cheer:

TOPIC:

Any Brooklyn Bedding customers unhappy? 22 May 2013 13:50 #11

  • milacqua
  • milacqua's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 16
Thanks for the well wishes and also for all of your advice and help. Without you and the others here I would have been like a fish out of water with this stuff. One never knows for sure of course but I feel that with the information I have gained here in just a week's time that I made good, intelligent choices for my needs. Anyone serious about a good night's sleep needs to visit the Mattress Underground.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Any Brooklyn Bedding customers unhappy? 22 May 2013 14:06 #12

  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 31963
Hi JDMWDC,

For example, the salesman at BB informed me their mattresses have a 1" pillow top quilting (though curiously their website says it's 1.5"...). I personally feel like that's a LOT of cushion, and might take away from the feel of the mattress. After all, the idea is to have the thing conform as best as possible to your body to ease pressure points. Also I'm a bit burned after my Sealy pillow top mattress caved in in the middle, to the tune of 1.25" (as measured by a warranty agent... .25" more and I could have replaced it) in the first 6 months. So the words pillow top make me cringe.


This is not actually a "pillowtop" layer (which is very different) but a quilting layer which is compressed with the quilting design. They also have different mattresses which use different amounts of quilting foam and other materials as well (such as wool) depending on the mattress and on the "feel" that the design goal is meant to achieve.

Once you get into the range of about 2" or more then I would be cautious (and the Sealy Pillowtops nave much more than this) but in this range it's there to fine tune the feel and performance of the mattress. You can read a bit more about quilting layers in post #2 here and the post it links to.

But that aside, it's difficult to buy online for other reasons. Ex: how will a "firm" v. "medium" latex support layer feel with memory foam? What about how each will feel with 4lb vs. 5lb foam? and compare that to "firm" v. "cushion firm" of a latex-only mattress? I'm curious how you are analyzing decisions like this. At some point, doing all the research in the world is no substitute for a showroom where you can lay on the offerings side by side. The salesman told me if I'm worried about body indentations to go with their "cool" mattress series (which, conveniently, is the most expensive line they have). But I feel like at 150 pounds I shouldn't have to worry about my mattress caving in like my current one does! Might have to check some of the other members on this website.


As you are pointing out ... ordering a mattress online can have some extra risk involved. You can read about some of the pros and cons of local vs online (which of course is an ongoing discussion) in this thread as well as post #2 here . Good local testing on similar materials or designs can certainly be helpful to reduce the risk. Some online mattresses are also made to be similar in "feel" and performance to some mattresses (such as Tempurpedic) that are widely available locally which can then be used for local testing as an approximation. In other cases ... exchange or return policies (either for a mattress or for individual layers) can also reduce the risk substantially because then your own sleeping experience can be used for "testing".

What you were told is also correct that higher quality and density foams are also more durable (and logically they are also more costly as well of course). You can read more about the many factors that are involved in durability in post #4 here (and the post it links to as well).

As in all things connected with mattresses ... the parts of each person's " personal value equation " that are most important and each person's risk tolerance and the tradeoffs they are happy to make can be quite different.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Any Brooklyn Bedding customers unhappy? 22 May 2013 19:02 #13

  • Kmfl98
  • Kmfl98's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 11
Well I pulled the trigger today and bought the Aloe Alexis. I'll probably start another thread with my experience.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Any Brooklyn Bedding customers unhappy? 22 May 2013 22:22 #14

  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 31963
Hi Kmfl98,

You certainly made a great choice and I think that the Aloe Alexis with its two latex layers is one of their most popular mattresses.

Congratulations on your new mattress :)

I'm looking forward to your feedback when you receive it and have had a chance to sleep on it.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Any Brooklyn Bedding customers unhappy? 23 May 2013 05:33 #15

  • JDMWDC
  • JDMWDC's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 16
Phoenix,

What's the rule with regard to "sink in" of the memory foam? I'm having difficulty determining if the Aloe Alexis double latex, or memory foam + latex would be better. I know when I have tried memory foam at department stores, I've liked the "Firm" variety, but BB, for example, only has 1 type of 4 lb memory foam to offer. Would you expect it to be more firm or more plush? How would altering the firmness of the latex layer underneath impact the memory foam layer? I actually saw 1 mattress manufacturer who says putting latex ABOVE a memory foam layer is the way to go, as it slows the speed by which memory foam breaks down (under the premise that memory foam, over time, will gradually cause you to sink deeper and deeper into it.)

Also from a budget standpoint, how important is that second layer of latex in the Aloe Alexis? That is, how would you expect a double-latex Aloe Alexis to behave vs. their single-layer Cotton Camilla or Bamboo Bliss? It's a $400 price savings (king size) to go down to the Bamboo (Cotton Camilla being nearly half the cost), so worth asking.

Thank you!!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by JDMWDC.

Any Brooklyn Bedding customers unhappy? 23 May 2013 12:41 #16

  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 31963
Hi JDMWDC,

What's the rule with regard to "sink in" of the memory foam?


As with most things concerning mattresses ... the "rules" are always about how a mattress performs not about which materials or design is "better or worse" because this depends on the person. Better and worse is always measured by how a specific mattress interacts with a specific person. Everything comes down to which mattress provides you with the best possible spinal alignment in all your sleeping positions, the best possible pressure relief in your most pressure prone positions, and has the combination of other qualities that you most prefer (ventilation and temperature regulation, motion isolation, responsiveness and resiliency, freedom or restriction of movement, feeling more "in" the mattress or "on" the mattress and many others) along with the durability of materials that will ensure that the properties of the mattress stay closer to their original specifications for a longer time than lower quality materials and the tradeoff between cost and higher performance and more durable materials and designs.

Every type of material including memory foam has many different versions or varieties that each have their own unique and different properties (you can read about some of the differences between different types of memory foam in post #9 here and post #8 here ). I can only speak to the quality and value of a mattress (which has nothing to do with how it may feel and perform for a specific person) and because I have never slept on their mattresses I have no personal experience with how they feel for me (and my specific body type and sleeping style) or how they may feel for someone else. The manufacturers themselves are always the best source and are in the best position to describe how their memory foam feels and performs or how one of their mattresses as a whole may compare to others that either you or they they are familiar with.

Each different mattress design and the thickness and types of layering and other components will also make a significant difference in terms of how a mattress interacts with different types of people with different body types and sleeping styles. Heavier people, people who have a narrower waist and either wider shoulders or hips, or people who are side sleepers will sink into the top layers more deeply than lighter people or those who sleep in flatter positions (back and stomach). The middle layer is more of a transition layer and has a more "dual" role in a mattress because it "helps" with pressure relief, primary support, and secondary support and is a big part of how a mattress adapts to different people and different sleeping positions. Because latex is so adaptable and has a wider range of response between soft with initial compression where it needs to be and firmer where it needs to be with deeper compression ... it is particularly useful in transition layers. In addition to this it is also a very durable material and will keep its properties for a long time and for those people who sink into the mattress past the top layer it's durability can also play an important role in the durability of the mattress as a whole.

The middle transition layer will also lend its properties to the layers above it. If the transition layer is more resilient (and latex has much higher resilience than memory foam which has very little at all) then depending on how thick the layer above it is and on how much someone sinks into the mattress ... it will "modify" the properties of the layer above it to different degrees. If the transition layer is latex and the top layer is thin enough for a particular person to "feel" the deeper layers ... then the "feel" of the mattress will be more resilient and responsive to movement. If the transition layer is memory foam ... then the "feel" of the mattress will be mush less resilient and responsive to movement. Memory foam tends to "restrict" movement because it absorbs energy and latex tends to "allow" movement because it is highly resilient and returns energy to the body when you move. The closer to the top of a mattress a particular layer is the more it will contribute to the overall feel and response of the mattress. "Comfort" which is what most people feel when they first lie on a mattress and is most dependent on the upper layers. Support and sleeping with your spine in a neutral alignment in all your sleeping positions over the course of the night is what most people will "feel" when they wake up in the morning (with or without stiffness and back discomfort or pain).

I actually saw 1 mattress manufacturer who says putting latex ABOVE a memory foam layer is the way to go, as it slows the speed by which memory foam breaks down (under the premise that memory foam, over time, will gradually cause you to sink deeper and deeper into it.)


As you can see in post #4 here (and the posts it links to) which talks about all the factors involved in durability ... this is correct and the layers above another layer will improve the durability of the layers below it.

I am also one of those who likes the combination of memory foam and latex in the comfort layers (although I prefer all latex even more) and I also prefer latex over memory foam (with a thin layer of latex over a thin layer of memory foam so that they "modify" each other more effectively than a thicker top layer would) because I prefer a more resilient sleeping surface that "allows" for more free movement on a mattress. As you mentioned this is the other way around than is most commonly found. One advantage of the Aloe Adele for example is that you can reverse the top two layers and put latex over the memory foam.

Also from a budget standpoint, how important is that second layer of latex in the Aloe Alexis? That is, how would you expect a double-latex Aloe Alexis to behave vs. their single-layer Cotton Camilla or Bamboo Bliss? It's a $400 price savings (king size) to go down to the Bamboo (Cotton Camilla being nearly half the cost), so worth asking.


I tend to approach things from the other direction. As you can see in post #2 here which compares a latex hybrid mattress to an all latex mattress ... there are clear differences between their performance levels and then the question becomes whether the higher cost of a higher performance mattress that has more costly and higher performance materials is comfortably in your budget range. Not everyone can afford the highest quality mattress available even though they would be "worth it" in terms of quality, performance, and durability. The other advantage of a mattress like the Aloe Alexis (or Aloe Adele) is that it allows you to "fine tune" both the comfort layer and the middle transition layer so it is a much more flexible design in terms of customizing a mattress to your specific needs and preferences either before or after a purchase. A forum search on aloe alexis bamboo bliss (you can just click this) will also bring up more posts with more information about how they may compare.

These are all decisions that need to be answered on an individual basis based on your own unique personal value equation and what is most important to you because nobody else can really tell you which would be better or worse or match your personal criteria in a mattress better than you.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by phoenix.

Any Brooklyn Bedding customers unhappy? 24 May 2013 14:12 #17

  • JDMWDC
  • JDMWDC's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 16
Phoenix,

Comparing the Cotton Camilla to the Bamboo Bliss for a moment. What value is there between the two? From what I can tell, the difference is 2" more of the HD foam core. To me it seems like that wouldn't be noticeable. My wife and I are about 150 lbs each, so the bottom 2" would probably be doing a very minimal job, if any job, in support. Is this reasonable or am I missing something?

Thank you!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Any Brooklyn Bedding customers unhappy? 24 May 2013 18:47 #18

  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 31963
Hi JDMWDC,

It's usually best to ask specific questions about specs directly to the manufacturer because they have the most accurate and current information.

But since I know how these two compare for now I can answer here as well.

The Cotton Camilla is the entry level and uses a 1.5 lb polyfoam base layer vs a higher quality 2.17 lb polyfoam base layer in the Bamboo Bliss and Aloe Alexis. It also doesn't have the higher quality cover with quilted wool in it that are in the models above the Cotton Camilla and there are only 2 comfort choices in the Cotton Camilla vs 6 with the Bamboo Bliss.

Hope this helps :)

Phoenix.
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Any Brooklyn Bedding customers unhappy? 28 May 2013 13:39 #19

  • noneedlessnoise
  • noneedlessnoise's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member
  • Posts: 8
I have a 10" total latex that I bought about a month ago, and I'm not sure how happy I am with it. I like it much more than my TempurPedic Cloud Supreme that I had before it, but I think the BB bed is getting to be too soft. I even customized it to make it fairly firm, and I'm a lightweight guy (5'9", 150lbs) but it's kind of making my back sore. The bed is three layers, with the bottom two layers fused together. All Talalay, 36ILD, 32ILD and 28ILD on the top. Mario told me this was the equivalent of a "5". I find that the top layer is sagging a bit, there's an impression, and if I sleep on the edge of the bed, I now feel as though I'm at the top of a valley that I could roll into at any point. However, it was very comfortable before the top layer softened up so much.

Another issue I have with it is the construction of the core. They told me that the two layers would be fused together, which was fine. When I was chatting with Mario, he told me that the core would be removable, just that the two layers would be fused together. I liked this idea because it gave me the ability to flip the core, and if I wanted to, put the soft layer below the core and sleep on the 32ILD layer, if I desired.

When I got the mattress, I unzipped the cover out of curiosity to find that the two layers of the core are sewn into the cover, so only the top layer (28ILD layer) of the mattress is removable. This means that I have to exchange it for a firmer layer instead of just changing the order of the latex in the mattress that I already have, avoiding having to ship big expensive pieces of latex around the country, which is not a good solution, and I'd like to avoid.

The weight for the mattress was quoted to be 130LBs. I can tell you that it weighs MUCH more than that, it took 2 burly guys to carry it up my stairs, friends who I tricked into doing it. I could have carried it myself if it was 130 pounds. I told them I couldn't and how much it weighed and they told me I was a wimp, so they came over and did it, then told me it was much heavier than 130. This would have been nice to know, because if I didn't have friends who could have helped me, I would have been stuck not being able to get it up the stairs in my house.

I will also say that I had read the shredded latex pillows were a little underfilled. This was mentioned in a few of their reviews. I think they took that to heart because the pillows I got are very overfilled, extremely fluffy. I wish there was a way to empty a bit out, because I could easily make a 3rd pillow out of the excess in the two I have. Not a huge deal, but again a simple zipper would have made this a non issue.

I will mention that the mattress was delivered without signature required. This is something that the shipper decides when they ship the package. This is just something to keep in mind, your ~$2000 bed will be sitting on the ground outside your house if you're not home when it gets there. That made me a bit nervous when it was delivered.

On their website, they advertise that if you purchase the 10" Total Latex mattress, you have 120 days of comfort exchanges, absolutely free. This is not amended anywhere, it just says that it's absolutely free. In speaking with one of their reps, the exchange process is kind of complicated, and you have to pay a $200 deposit, which makes it not free. He kept explaining to me why they need to obtain the deposit, and that's not the point, and not what I am not understanding. I just don't understand why they would advertise the fact that it is "absolutely free" when they are taking money from you, even temporarily, that is not free. It's kind of misleading actually.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by noneedlessnoise.

Any Brooklyn Bedding customers unhappy? 28 May 2013 14:38 #20

  • milacqua
  • milacqua's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 16
I am sorry to hear all that. On Thursday I will have the exact same mattress delivered by FedEx. I also asked BB about the weight and was told the mattress weighs 120-125 lbs for King Size (that seemed quite light when I read that in the email response). "Jacob" also told me he and his wife were able to carry the King Size Aloe Alexis mattress up two flights of stairs with no problem. The Aloe mattress has to weigh considerably more than the one I bought since it is 4" thicker than the all natural latex mattres. However, I have to believe what I was told is correct because the FedEx tracking sheet shows 135lbs shipping weight and that also includes the mattress cover (and my order was for a queen size). But if you are correct and BB gave me the wrong weight, I too will have to "trick" a couple friends into helping me!!

I explained I was 6 foot, 230 lbs, which is quite a bit larger than you, yet a "5" firmness was also recommended for me. I indicated that I like a firmer mattress as a matter of course but was told the "5" should be right for me. All I can say is that I hope my impressions are different than yours - we will have to wait and see.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by milacqua.
The Mattress UndergroundCopyright © 2022 The Mattress Underground
TheMattressUndergounf
TMU
TheMattressUndergounf