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Best OMF mattress to buy to add a topper later? 30 May 2013 22:23 #31

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Hi Dave,

Thanks for jumping in to the thread.

You continually surprise me on how many options you make available to your customers ... but of course that's one of the advantages of dealing directly with a manufacturer :)

Just to clarify your comment because it doesn't mention it on the site ... do you actually modify the firmness (or the fill) in each of those three areas of the topper?

Phoenix
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Best OMF mattress to buy to add a topper later? 31 May 2013 08:55 #32

  • davet
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Good Morning Phoenix,

Our FloBeds Twice Fluffed Toppers have a zipper with two pulls running down the side (or sides in Queen and King). The side can be opened at any channel and the firmness adjusted by adding or removing shredded latex. The most common places to adjust are the shoulders, lumbar and hips.

Thanks for catching the fact that we don't mention this feature on the site. We will update the topper information ASAP.

Dave
FloBeds, The Original Personalized Latex Mattress

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Best OMF mattress to buy to add a topper later? 31 May 2013 22:17 #33

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Hi dave,

That's interesting ... customizable shredded latex toppers :)

I didn't realize that the latex could be removed ... thanks for letting us know and I've added the information to the topper and component post as well.

Phoenix
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Best OMF mattress to buy to add a topper later? 01 Jun 2013 15:51 #34

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Oh, wow... A response right from Flobeds!

I talked to Dewey on the phone on Friday. He told me, "are you Lavendar from MattressUnderground?" Not putting two and two together, I said I wasn't... Kind of freaked me out at the time. But now that I see your reply, I see what he was talking about.

Dave here from FloBeds... Thanks for taking the time to try our products. I am so glad you like our Twice-Fluffed Shredded Latex pillows (I sleep with two of them myself). I also saw that you wished the seam in the center of the topper was not there. No problem. We can make one for you without the seam. We make a left and right side on our Queen and King toppers so that each sleeper can adjust the shoulder, lumbar or hip area firmness as they like (although most people love it just like we ship it). Give us a call or email and let us know if you would like to exchange yours for a "no-split" version.


I really appreciated your offer. But I really think I need to return this thing. The leaning towards the center is the main thing. But I've been walking around thinking about what's best for me in a mattress. And I really think surfaces that are too soft encourage me to lay in bed too long. And I don't spring out of bed as quickly as when I have a more firm surface to sleep on. So even if you guys fix the "leaning towards the center" thing, it would still be too soft for me. The "too soft" I don't consider a design flaw, it's exactly what many people want. It's just not right for me.

I didn't know that when I ordered the thing. Trying all these various stuff I'm trying to learn about mattresses, it's something I've come to learn is probably true of me.

The other thing I was criticial of was calling it like an expensive mat you'd take camping with you. That was a poor way of putting it. It is what comes to my mind when I lay on it. But for a review, it's not a good objective way of putting it. Phoenix called it a "3-D surface", that's probably more along the lines of the right objective way of saying it. I would tell people you need to have an open-mind about the type of surface they sleep on. Vast majority of people are used to laying on something that's shaped like a flat box. Then they get something 3-D, and maybe they're like me, "what the hell?"

But then after you lay on the thing for awhile, the softness does compress, and the 3-D surface isn't as pronounced... compresses like all bedding materials do... But it's still there a little bit. Overall, the 3-D surface, I think after a little while, that wouldn't bother me.

I originally made comments just because Paisley asked for comments. Then I felt like I had to go back and correct some stuff in a later comment. Now I'm apparently still talking about it. I see now why Phoenix waited for sleeping for 30 days on the shredded latex toppers he was able to review. He waited 30 days and has much more experience with this stuff than I.

Our FloBeds Twice Fluffed Toppers have a zipper with two pulls running down the side (or sides in Queen and King). The side can be opened at any channel and the firmness adjusted by adding or removing shredded latex. The most common places to adjust are the shoulders, lumbar and hips.
FloBeds, The Original Personalized Latex Mattress


After reading that, when I went upstairs I looked at my topper. And lo and behold, there is a zipper on there!

I have mixed reactions though on adjusting it by removing some shredded latex. One of my problems with the topper was the leaning towards the center. It's like the shredded latex was piled higher on the sides of the topper away from the center. I actually tried pulling all the sheets and mattress protector off so I could pick up one side of the topper and shake it a little to try to get the shredded latex to move down a little towards the center, and so become a flatter surface. But I didn't see any movement and had already decided to return the thing, so I didn't want to screw with it too much.

If people are reaching in and taking handfuls of shredded latex out, how are they supposed to get the shredded latex evenly distributed so there aren't lumps in the topper? What I was thinking about doing, was taking a long pole and slide it around inside each baffle to try to make it more evenly distributed. But that sounded like a mess and I had already decided to return the thing.

I saw on your pillows where on the flyer that came with it, you guys have a recommended procedure for removing shredded latex. If you're encouraging people to do this, shouldn't you have some recommended procedure for re-evenly distributing the shredded latex across the topper?

But maybe people who prefer super-soft sleeping surface, the lumps and not completely flat surface, it doesn't bother them so much? Like how I was complaining about the leaning to the center, people who like soft, that doesn't bother them?

Like I know one thing many complain about with pillowtop mattresses is body impressions. I know when I got my first Original Mattress Factory pillowtop over 10 years ago, within a month, a body impression had already started to form and I was like, "hmmm, I don't know about this". But pillowtops are so common, maybe the impressions just don't bother a lot of people? And maybe most of those people are the ones who prefer really soft surfaces to sleep on?

Note that that OMF mattress I got over 10 years ago, I really abused that thing. Didn't flip or rotate it the first 4 years I had it. Didn't have it on a proper frame...

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Last edit: by levander.

Best OMF mattress to buy to add a topper later? 01 Jun 2013 16:39 #35

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Phoenix (or anybody, I'm just used to Phoenix responding now),

I'm now looking for a medium-firm (non-shredded) latex topper.

Now that my head has stopped spinning from all the options, and I feel like I'm at least a little comfortable with a lot of this knowledge, I"ve realized how excellent your guidelines for mattress firmness and depth are: Post #8

Then I have to pair them with Brooklyn Bedding's latex ILD guidelines: BB guidelines

My relevant personal specs being a heavy side sleeper who prefers a firm mattres. So that means the generic recommendation for me is a 3" 28 ILD latex topper. I still need to stop and read through your articles on latex in one sitting from top to bottom, but from what I've read around, I'm much more interested in Talay than Dunlop.

Now with personal musings, from the generic recommendation, I could go down to 2" and either up or down a little on the ILD to either 24 ILD or 32 ILD. But before I varied from the generic recommendations, I'd want to try the toppers in person, which may not be possible to do before buying. So, I'm hoping to find some local retailers. I'm just Northwest of Atlanta, in zip code 30066.

This situation leaves me with 3 questions.

1.) I saw these retailer recommendations you commonly link to for atlanta: Post #2 . But that post says you did a search centered on Macon with a radius of 100 miles. I just checked Google Maps, I'm 109 miles from Macon, almost in Roswell. Are those the best recommendations for Atlanta?

2.) Also, how are you doing those searches. Do you have access to some database we don't have access to?

3.) Last, the generic recommendation for me is 3". But from various other variables, I'm wondering if I could go down to 2". If I get the 2" and it's not deep enough, I assume the drawback is that my body will hit the firmer mattress underneath and I won't have as much cushioning. But if I get the 3" and it's too deep, what are the drawbacks? Is the only drawback that a 3" is more expensive and that I've spent too much money?

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Last edit: by levander.

Best OMF mattress to buy to add a topper later? 02 Jun 2013 17:38 #36

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Hi levander,

My relevant personal specs being a heavy side sleeper who prefers a firm mattres. So that means the generic recommendation for me is a 3" 28 ILD latex topper.


If you are heavier and prefer firmer I would probably tend to go one higher yet to 32 or so (28 can be as soft for someone who is heavier as 19 or 24 would be for someone who is lighter).

The advantage of BB is that they have a good return policy for their toppers so you can try them with less risk.

1.) I saw these retailer recommendations you commonly link to for atlanta: Post #2. But that post says you did a search centered on Macon with a radius of 100 miles. I just checked Google Maps, I'm 109 miles from Macon, almost in Roswell. Are those the best recommendations for Atlanta?


At the moment yes (the lists on the forum are an ongoing project but I included Atlanta and the surrounding area in my research). there are some others in post #5 here that may involve a bit more research into what they carry and their level of knowledge and experience but that are also close to you.

2.) Also, how are you doing those searches. Do you have access to some database we don't have access to?


They are the result of a combination of a lot of time consuming effort into deep google searches (usually a minimum of 50 pages deep), many other public sites that have various lists, my knowledge of the products and transparency of various manufacturers (deciding which to exclude and which to pursue further), analysis of the websites I encounter and the mattresses they carry, many phone calls to talk with the stores or manufacturers I encounter or know about, and anything else that may turn up a good option in a particular area. All of this goes into my own "database" where I keep my notes of what I find out over time. There isn't an online database that I use which has this type of "vetted" information (which doesn't exist to my knowledge) but it's mostly just time, effort, and talking to people.

3.) Last, the generic recommendation for me is 3". But from various other variables, I'm wondering if I could go down to 2". If I get the 2" and it's not deep enough, I assume the drawback is that my body will hit the firmer mattress underneath and I won't have as much cushioning. But if I get the 3" and it's too deep, what are the drawbacks? Is the only drawback that a 3" is more expensive and that I've spent too much money?


The drawbacks of a comfort layer that is too thick/soft are that your heavier pelvis will sink down too far before it is "stopped" by the firmer layers underneath it. This either affects the curvature of the spine itself or tilts the pelvis and pelvic tilt is one of the main factors that can affect and control the natural curvature of the lumbar spine. The comfort layer thickness includes the topper and any softer materials that are already in your mattress because they will both be part of how far your heavier pelvis is "allowed" to sink down into the mattress. This is why an optimal topper thickness depends on the type of mattress it is going on and the thickness and softness of the upper layers that are already part of it. The more soft / thick layers are already in your mattress the less you would need to add in terms of topper thickness. This is why it's usually better to use experiential guidelines that are more subjective (a little, a fair bit, a lot etc) because this bypasses the need to use theory which can be useful as a generic guideline to understand the concepts involved but can't be specific to any particular person because of all the unknowns and variables involved that make each of us different from each other.

I also added one more paragraph to the guidelines you linked which is ...

Side sleepers with a bigger differential between their waist and shoulders (usually men) or between their waist and hips (usually women) may need thicker and softer upper layers than body types that are "straighter" and which distribute pressure more evenly to allow them to sink in a little more deeply in the wider areas and "fill in" and help support the gaps in their sleeping profile.


Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Best OMF mattress to buy to add a topper later? 08 Jun 2013 18:58 #37

Hi Phoenix..............I greatly appreciate all your insights and advice.

I was in the exact same conundrum as Lavender was, trying to piece together the best specs for a Latex Mattress Topper.

2 or 3 inches and then what ILD?

Gotta assume there are hundreds with that same question.

Finally, after reading everything I could in this forum, I took the plunge with Brooklyn Bedding.

Got the 2 inch with 24 ILD.

Rcvd a week ago, and I've enjoyed every minute of every day on it ever since!

Yes, its risky buying without an actual trial, but also good to know that Brooklyn B has a flexible exchange program if needed.

And I absolutely love the shredded latex pillow that came with it!

I will be buying for an upstairs bed shortly, and am tempted to try the 3", but will ponder for a while before I do. You're insight regarding body dimensions and weight was interesting, and bears major consideration.

I'm 6'5" and 175 pounds......long and skinny..........so I'm not going to sink in like alot of other people.
I might be able to increase the height of the topper and not have to worry about going up in ILD.

Regards,

Loomis

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Best OMF mattress to buy to add a topper later? 09 Jun 2013 00:26 #38

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Hi Loomis,

Congratulations on making a good choice for your topper. 2" of 24 ILD is usually a fairly "safe" choice for people who are in an average weight range and where there is already some softness in the comfort layers of their mattress. it seems to me that you did well :)

I'm 6'5" and 175 pounds......long and skinny..........so I'm not going to sink in like alot of other people.
I might be able to increase the height of the topper and not have to worry about going up in ILD.


This would depend on how your weight was distributed, your body dimensions (generally width of shoulders vs waist in men), on your sleeping positions (side sleepers often need thicker than back sleepers),and perhaps most of all on the firmness of the mattress that the topper is being used on (less soft foam in the comfort layer of the mattress means it may be "safer" to use a thicker topper).

I would tend to use the topper guidelines and make your choice based on whether you need a "little", a "fair bit", or a "lot" of extra softness compared to sleeping on the mattress alone. The relative firmness of your current mattress compared to your upstairs mattress would also be a good guideline (firmer mattresses may do better with a little thicker topper). It seems that 24 ILD though is a good choice for you which at least takes care of one of the two main variables (ILD and thickness).

Phoenix
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Best OMF mattress to buy to add a topper later? 18 Jun 2013 16:02 #39

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Phoenix, thanks for posting the links to additional mattress retailers you'd look at in Atlanta.

Due to a few unexpected financial expenses, I won't be buying a topper for the next couple of months. But this actually works out pretty well for me and toppers.

You, and others I've seen around the internet, suggested letting the mattress adjust for the 1st 3 months without a topper anyway. And I still have almost 2 months before that time period is up.

I plan on using that time to try to visit some of these retailers, hopefully some of them have some kind of latex topper I can try. I'll call/email first before I drive all the way over.

But thanks for all the advice! It really helped. I was really in a bind when I came to this site, I needed a new mattress fast, my old mattress was absolutely shot, and there was all this nonsense to look into.

After the Flobeds topper that didn't suit my sleeping style, I completely see why you keep telling people to try stuff in person first. It seemed weird when I first came here, because nobody does that it seems like. They all look like they're buying online. Hopefully they tried stuff in person at other retailers or something.

But there is just no way I could have figured out in a retail store that I like as firm a mattress as I got. No way. I laid on it in the store and my only criteria was, "can I sleep on this successfully long enough to get a topper?". It met that criteria, so I bought it. I had no idea that I'd like sleeping on it this much without a topper. And there's no way I could have figured that out in store.

Last, a thought about your web site. I design software for a living and it's really interesting how you're using you're forum software like it's a Wiki. You're all inter-linking forum posts as references.

When I asked above, "what database are you getting all these mattress retailers from", your response was that there is no database except for the one you keep in your head. Well, a wiki page that has a list of cities, and then each city name is a link to another wiki page with your suggested mattress retailers to check out for that city, that's basic ideal use of a wiki. And it would make it easier for people to find your recommendations for retailers in a specific city.

Basically, in your posts, instead of linking to a certain forum post you made somewhere, you would link to a wiki post you made.

Authoring the wiki would probably consist of getting the wiki software up and going on your web server, and then every time you want to link to a forum post in one of your responses somewhere, you copy and paste the forum post into a new wiki page, and you link to the wiki page instead.

Anyway, just a suggestion. People like different things in software. What I'm talking about with wikis is how I'd do it. But you may very well prefer the way it is now which is more than suitable. It worked fine for me when I was frantically trying to find info when I needed a mattress quick!

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Last edit: by levander.

Best OMF mattress to buy to add a topper later? 18 Jun 2013 17:03 #40

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Hi levander,

Thanks for the great comments and the feedback ... I appreciate it :)

After the Flobeds topper that didn't suit my sleeping style, I completely see why you keep telling people to try stuff in person first. It seemed weird when I first came here, because nobody does that it seems like. They all look like they're buying online. Hopefully they tried stuff in person at other retailers or something.


Online research can be very deceptive this way because the large majority of consumers don't buy online at all and only do some initial research online. They normally aren't as active in online venues either so a disproportionate number of online posts and reviews are from people who do purchase online which can misrepresent it's popularity (although it is growing). By far the majority of mattress purchases are local purchases (probably over 85% and possibly more).

When I asked above, "what database are you getting all these mattress retailers from", your response was that there is no database except for the one you keep in your head. Well, a wiki page that has a list of cities, and then each city name is a link to another wiki page with your suggested mattress retailers to check out for that city, that's basic ideal use of a wiki. And it would make it easier for people to find your recommendations for retailers in a specific city.


I meant that there is no "public" database. I actually do have a very extensive database that I have developed over the years that includes my research notes, links, websites, and brief comments about most of my significant conversations. I couldn't possibly keep all the information I accumulate in my head.

One of the biggest challenges that I (or anyone) that takes on a project with the scope of this one is the time it takes and the number of hats that one person has to wear. In many cases ... building a site that is easier to navigate is more a matter of time than method (my "normal" day is about 16 hours and I haven't had more than part of a day off in over 2 years!)

When I first started and put my original "5 year plan" together ... the original idea was to write some basic articles for the site itself (a little over 100 originally) and then use the forum replies as a repository for the more detailed information that people wanted to know or asked about. I keep a list of the significant posts that I link to on many occasions (as you know) but this will eventually be revised into a full fledged "research center" which is more itemized and won't require forum searches. This is probably about a year away.

I will also be opening up new forum sections to itemize certain information (including lists for different areas and cities) as this also becomes possible. There will be some other sections of both the site itself and the forum as well that will be very helpful for people (more about this over the coming few months as this is part of the current developments I am actively working on).

There will also be an increase in manufacturing membership as there are a number that I have kept "on hold" pending some of the developments I am working on).

It would also be fair to say that in spite of the growth of the site ... I have actually held it back tosome degree (by not implementing some things that I know would increase traffic) so that my own hours don't become a bottleneck and that the volume of the site doesn't become overwhelming. One of the reasons that the forum works so well is that information and replies can be organically integrated with pending articles and once I have answered a question in several ways that includes all the relevant information then it is much easier to combine them into a new more comprehensive article for the research center. Google also ranks "information density" quite highly and they crawl the forum on an ongoing hourly basis so using the forum in different and more creative ways also has some real benefits. There are also plans in place that will allow for and accommodate much greater traffic and volume.

The website as it now appears is only a small part of some of the initial plans I had when I first developed the idea of the site and the initial plans have also been revised on a regular basis as I gained experience with what people actually wanted to know and what type of information would be most helpful (and of course going through the learning curve involved with being a webmaster).

Thanks for the suggestions ... and I agree they are all both necessary and desirable ... and they will all (and more) be implemented over the coming months and years :)

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.
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