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Mattress support cores - latex 13 Feb 2018 13:04 #21

  • oad8730
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I just purchased a Leaf mattress from Sleeping Organic. I'm 5 feet tall, female, and weigh 100 lbs. My previous mattress was too firm and as a side-sleeper, my shoulders and hips couldn't sink into the mattress so my side was never properly supported and I had back pain all the time. While mattress shopping, nearly every mattress I tried was too firm so I desperately wanted a soft mattress.

I purchased a Sleep Number bed and even on the softest setting, I was comfortable on my back but it still felt too firm for my side. I also had major off-gassing issues (I assume from the vulcanized rubber) so I will be returning it.

I bought the Leaf mattress instead and I configured the Leaf mattress from the bottom up as: Medium dunlop, Soft Talalay, XSoft Talalay and then a LaNoodle Cuddle topper on top. I think I went overboard trying to make it soft and now it is not supportive enough as my hips seem to be sinking in too far and my back still hurts. I would like to do a layer-exchange, but I am not sure how to reconfigure the mattress. I was thinking of sending back the Xsoft Talalay as I sink completely through it and it seems unnecessary with the LaNoodle Cuddle topper. I don't know what to exchange it for. Would you recommend another Medium dunlop, so then my configuration would be: MD, MD, ST, topper?

Or is that still not supportive enough and I should get Firm dunlop: FD, MD, ST, topper?

Or will those both be too firm and I should get a soft dunlop: MD, SD, ST, topper?

My biggest issue seems to be that I have an athletic build with my shoulders wider than my hips, and my hips wider than my waist. So it seems like my shoulder needs to sink in deeper than my hips in order for my spine to line up correctly, but my hips will always sink in more because they are heavier. I would appreciate any advice you may have.

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Mattress support cores - latex 15 Feb 2018 00:55 #22

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Hi oad8730.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :)

I bought the Leaf mattress instead and I configured the Leaf mattress from the bottom up as: Medium dunlop, Soft Talalay, XSoft Talalay and then a LaNoodle Cuddle topper on top. I think I went overboard trying to make it soft and now it is not supportive enough as my hips seem to be sinking in too far and my back still hurts.


While it is true that generally, side sleepers need a bit more pressure point relief on the surface to accommodate the wider dimensional variances between shoulder, hips, and waist, it is still important to remember that you may need to increase or decrease the averages recommended for thickness or level of plushness depending on your weight, body shape, preferences, and the firmness of the support layers underneath. With the soft T and XST layer configuration you chose and because you are so light even with sleeping on your side, your hips (being the heaviest) are sinking too much before reaching any of the needed support from the layer below, which of course compromises your alignment and results back pains.

This is to say that you are on the right track in looking for more support, with you being a side sleeper and being so light and petite the 3” XST and LaNoodle comfort layer are forming a deep enough cradle to give you the plushness that you desire and placing them on top of a firmer layer would work better for your alignment/support and stop any further sinking of your hips. However, it is not possible for me to tell via an online forum which of the combinations you suggested would be best for you because you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, involved that are unique to you and it would be difficult to predict with accuracy which would be the best match in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences).

Even so, you could still get closer to the best configuration before initiating an exchange and do some in home experimenting with the layers you already have to get more data points and decide which option is more likely to be the best match for you. I would suggest that you carefully remove the XSoft Talalay from the encasement and try the combination (from bottom to top) MD, ST, LaNoodle. This would approximate well enough the level of support/comfort you would have from a (FD, MD, ST, topper).

If this feels too firm, then I would also try the combination MD, XST, topper and you can also remove the topper from both combinations to see how this would work for you. This will give you a few more data points before you go any further and as always I suggest that you rely on the advice of the manufacturer themselves as they are much more familiar with their own mattress designs and materials than anyone else (including me) and they can use the information you provide them about your body type and sleeping positions, your preferences, your history on different mattresses, and the results of your in home testing to make suggestions based on the "averages" of other customers that may be similar to you.

I'm looking forward to finding out what your testing shows and what end up deciding ... and of course any additional comments or questions you may have along the way that I or any of the more knowledgeable members of the site can help with.

Phoenix
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Mattress support cores - latex 15 Feb 2018 07:34 #23

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Hi Phoenix,

Thank you for the helpful suggestions! Before writing to you, I tried layering MD, XST, ST, Topper and MD, ST, no topper. I still found both to be too soft. I will try your suggestions as well.

It is probably also worth mentioning the foundation that the latex is on. I (perhaps unwisely) purchased it before deciding what kind of bed I was going to buy. I bought a platform bed with 3.5" spaced slats, but they are the curved Euro-type slats.

While researching latex beds, I found the most common complaint to be that they were too firm (imagine my surprise to now be having the opposite problem), so I figured the curved slats would not be an issue and would help the latex contour better to my body. Are curved slats not an advisable foundation for a latex bed?

I did have one thought that perhaps I could swap out the slats in the hip region for adjustable slats that you can adjust to compress less, if I can find somewhere to purchase them individually.

I'm concerned that even with a firmer support layer, my hips will still always sink lower than my shoulder, and what I really need is my shoulder to sink lower than my hips. I just measured and my shoulder sticks out 1.5" past my hips. Would a zoned mattress be a better option in this situation? I really want to make the mattress I have work though and not have to go through returning another mattress.

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Mattress support cores - latex 15 Feb 2018 13:49 #24

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Hi oad8730.

Thank you for the helpful suggestions! Before writing to you, I tried layering MD, XST, ST, Topper and MD, ST, no topper. I still found both to be too soft. I will try your suggestions as well.


You are welcome! :)

Your intuition in trying the soft on top of extra soft, was good as you may be a candidate for a “dominating layer” which is certainly a viable option and a valid design, What it would do is change both the surface feel of the mattress (it would feel slightly firmer or more "crisp" and slightly reduce how far you sink in to the upper layers of the mattress). It is a more "sophisticated design" and more difficult to predict how it may feel for any particular individual (different weights, body types, and sleeping styles will "feel" it differently depending on how far they sink into the top combination of layers) but it's also a great way to do some "fine tuning" on a mattress to get a surface feel you like but still be able to sink in enough to get the pressure relief you need.

so I figured the curved slats would not be an issue and would help the latex contour better to my body. Are curved slats not an advisable foundation for a latex bed?


Flexible slat systems add extra variables into the mixture and create more confusion. You would be better off dealing with a flat surface to fine tune. If you really wish to integrate the flexible slat system into your design you would need to only make changes one at a time – and certainly not at the same time as changing latex layers … this can get too confusing as to what causes the new overall effect.

A flexible support system under a mattress can change the feel and response of the mattress compared to a rigid non-flexing support system (which would be a more common choice for a latex mattress) but this can be either detrimental or beneficial depending on which combination (your mattress on a flexible slat support system vs a rigid non-flexing support system) is the best match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). A flexible slat foundation is an "active" part of a sleeping system just like any of the other layers or components in the mattress itself that compresses or flexes under your weight so it can certainly affect the feel and performance of the mattress for better or for worse.

When these types of support systems are used they are typically used under thinner latex mattresses so that the thickness of the mattress doesn't negate the effect of the flexible slats and these are also very commonly used in Europe under thinner latex mattresses. Some latex mattress manufacturers use these types of support systems as their "default" or actually recommend them. Many flexible slat foundations also have tension adjusters that can be used to create firmer or softer areas under the mattress which can be used to "fine tune" the feel and performance of your sleeping system so that there is firmer support under the heavier parts of the body (like the hips/pelvis) and softer support under the lighter parts of the body (like the shoulders) but again if a mattress is too thick it can reduce or diminish the effect of the adjustments. In some cases, if each side of the support system has flex and there is no flex in the middle center support beam (or if you have two twin XL foundations side to side with the firmer edges in the middle) then you may be able to feel the firmer center support through the mattress. You can see some additional comments about flexible slat systems vs rigid non-flexing foundations in post #2 here and post #2 here and post #13 here .

If a flexible slat system has the structural strength and integrity to hold the weight of a latex mattress and the people sleeping on it and the gaps between the slats are no more than 3" apart or less, the slatted support surface is about 50% of the total surface area, and it has a center support beam with good support to the floor, then it wouldn't harm the mattress but you will find that there are some manufacturers that aren't comfortable with anything except a solid non flexing support surface under their latex mattresses and like many things in the industry you won't find a unanimous consensus of opinion between different manufacturers so it would be important to check on a manufacturer by manufacturer basis to make sure that your support system wouldn't invalidate the warranty for any latex mattress that you were considering.

I did have one thought that perhaps I could swap out the slats in the hip region for adjustable slats that you can adjust to compress less if I can find somewhere to purchase them individually.


As mentioned above the foundation throws more variables (compounded) in the mix and if you plan to modify it than this needs to be taken into account. I would suggest doing the mattress testing on a flat surface to get it as close as you can to the level of support you need and plushness you desire then you can introduce the foundation if you need to fine tune it with either replacing some slats or keeping it as it is.

Tension adjustable slat systems can be useful to help with zoning, but I would do this under the guidance of a manufacturer/retailer that is experienced person with tension adjustability.

I'm concerned that even with a firmer support layer, my hips will still always sink lower than my shoulder, and what I really need is my shoulder to sink lower than my hips. I just measured and my shoulder sticks out 1.5" past my hips. Would a zoned mattress be a better option in this situation


Hips will usually sink in more than the shoulders as there is more weight in that area. When sleeping upon side the difference between shoulder and hips is less than when measured standing up (as scapula adducts and upward rotates) I would also make sure that you reevaluate your pillow to make sure that it is providing a decent alignment to keep your cervical/upper thoracic region in a relatively neutral arrangement.

Zoning systems can certainly be useful and well worth considering for people that have more difficulty finding a mattress with the right "balance" between comfort/pressure relief (under the shoulders especially) and support/alignment (under the hips/pelvis especially) or who have more challenging circumstances or sensitivities, body types that are more difficult to "match" to a mattress, more complex medical issues, or who have a history of having more difficulty in finding a mattress that works well for them. There is more about zoning in this article and in post #11 here and the additional posts it links to but the only way to know whether any specific mattress (zoned or otherwise) will be a good match for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP will be based on careful testing or your own personal experience.

FloBeds ( our Trusted Members here ) for example, have great zoning system but I would use their advice picking out any layers, as this has a little more science behind and can get very complicated. People incorrectly assume that they need to sleep with the spine in total straight alignment like a skeleton, but this is rarely the case.

I hope this gives you enough information to weigh all your options

Phoenix
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Mattress support cores - latex 17 Feb 2018 12:45 #25

Hi Phoenix. I am new to your website and I hope you can answer my question. From everything that I have read, I’m guessing that a latex mattress is probably the way to go. In my neck of the woods, Buffalo, New York, there is a company called Jamestown mattress. Are you familiar with them? If not, could you please go to jamestownmattress.com/product/create-your-natures-cloud-naturalorganic-mattress/

Could you let me know if you think this would be a quality mattress? The link brings you to their create-your-own-mattress page. You get to choose the latex, natural or synthetic, and you get to choose the thickness. In any event, what do you think?

Thanks.

Lynda

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Mattress support cores - latex 18 Feb 2018 11:34 #26

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H Lynda.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! … It sounds like you are a candidate for becoming a latex convert :)

I’m guessing that a latex mattress is probably the way to go. In my neck of the woods, Buffalo, New York, there is a company called Jamestown mattress. Are you familiar with them?


I personally think highly of the two "Jims" (father and son) who own Jamestown mattress and I believe they use good quality and value materials in the price ranges of their mattresses. They were discussed several times on our forum and you can read more comments about them if you perform a Forum Search , just click the link.

Could you let me know if you think this would be a quality mattress?


The mattress you are looking at is a component style system which means that you can adjust it before and after purchase. There are no lower quality materials or weak links in the design at all so with the materials that are listed there would be no cause for any concern. From their description, it seems that they use Dunlop latex for their layers but if you prefer the feel of Talalay you can always call them to see if they offer it.

Good luck!

Phoenix
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Mattress support cores - latex 06 Mar 2018 06:28 #27

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Hi geesahn, and everyone:), I am new to this forum, thanks for reviewing your mattress i am interested to know whether your 4" layers (firm and mid) one solid piece for each (4X1) or 2 separate layers of 2" (2x2") for each firmness. Thank you

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Mattress support cores - latex 06 Mar 2018 06:35 #28

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hi geesahn, thanks for a nice review of your new mattress! I am new to this forum and would like to know whether your layers of latex firm and med you described 4" 2 separate layers of 2 inches each or one solid piece (4x1") ?

Thank you :)

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Mattress support cores - latex 06 Mar 2018 08:22 #29

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Their original post said all 2" layers:
Jeff Scheuer, The Beducator™ Owner of Mattress To Go
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Mattress support cores - latex 06 Mar 2018 09:08 #30

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Hi lkirik2000! The mattress we exchanged for and still LOVE is one 4"piece of firm core, a 2" med, 2" soft, 2"soft. The original one that we purchased was five 2" layers and only the bottom 2" was firm and that mattress was way too soft.

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