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Charles P. Rogers 21 Aug 2017 21:22 #71

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Hi LindaKD,

Unfortunately, the data you’ve provided isn’t complete and doesn’t contain in many instances meaningful information about the mattress in question. While the promotional nature of your posts will no longer be tolerated here on the forum, I’ll let your comments here stand as it allows me the opportunity to provide examples of the common mistakes that consumers unfortunately make when shopping for a mattress with incomplete information that they think is research.

The steps for shopping for a mattress are clearly laid out in the mattress shopping tutorial here , including all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help people make the best possible choice.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) that can help one assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as hoped for, and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help with meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation .

Outside of PPP (which is the most important part of "value"), the next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can't see or "feel" and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new so I would always make sure that you find out the information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

In the situation you’ve linked, the specifications are neither complete in quantity (listing all of the layers within the mattress) or quality (listing the density of polyfoam). Without this information it is impossible for any consumer to make an educated and informed decision about their mattress purchase. A similar situation occurred with a site member just a few days ago where they were provided incorrect/incomplete information on a CPR mattress (see post #9 here ), and even the information on the specification card at the store was incomplete in listing all of the layers within the mattress and was incomplete in listing foam densities of the polyfoam within the mattress. Fortunately, the site member was able to gather the required information form a more informed salesperson (see post #12 here ). With that information, a consumer could then begin to move forward and make more complete and logical comparisons and draw expectations of durability. After all, when trying out a mattress, one can not feel quality or durability, only initial comfort.

You can google "Charles P Rogers Youtube", and get several videos on the product.


Videos can be a wonderful way to explore and learn about a product, but only when they are more detailed in the construction and include the information necessary to compare the quality of the materials within a mattress, as linked to previously, Unfortunately, these videos do not provide that information, so they are not a useful tool in assisting one in evaluating this mattress.

My time online is mostly relegated to work hours, so I haven't the time luxury of doing research for TMU.


I am perfectly fine with that. But thank you for taking the time away from your work for these replies.

There are also a lot of feedbacks from customer who bought their products, so people here do not have to wait a month or two for what my experience would be.


This is one of the biggest mistakes that consumers make – relying on the experiences of others and assuming that these would somehow be an accurate indicator of the applicability for a mattress to themselves. There are simply too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved in choosing a mattress for someone else to make specific suggestions based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or theory at a distance that can possible be more accurate than your own careful and objective testing (using the testing guidelines in the tutorial post) which is always the most reliable way to predict which mattress will be the best match for you in terms of PPP (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).

I would be cautious about using anyone else's suggestions, experiences or reviews on a specific mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you. In many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful, because a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (even if they are in a similar weight range). In other words ... reviews or other people's experiences in general won't tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or "value" of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here ).

"Recommendations" do much more harm than good by encouraging consumers to believe that their recommendation or the “feedbacks” of others is all that they need to find a suitable and good quality/value mattress, which absolves the consumer of engaging in any critical thinking or educated analysis of a product.

And promotional commentary, combined with dubious advice and snidely disparaging remarks, unfortunately has the opposite of its intended effect and ends up presenting a more negative light upon the very product that is at the center of the discussion, which in this case is unfortunate.

If you actually did purchase a new CPR (or any other) mattress, I do hope it works out well for you.

Phoenix
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Charles P. Rogers 22 Aug 2017 04:52 #72

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You said to respond back after I had experience with the product and since others have already done that, I referred you to those feedbacks. Now you say that is not a good thing to do. Too much drama and contradiction here. If you could please, remove me from your membership. Thank you.

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Charles P. Rogers 08 Mar 2018 15:05 #73

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Hi all,

Thank you very much for providing the best mattress education a consumer can receive. Unlike some other sources I've gone to for information, I've found so much helpful information on this site. With the core knowledge from Phoenix, the expertise from the "expert members", and input from everyone else, I've been able to quietly answer my own questions without posting. So my first post isn't a question, but rather a contribution.

At one point during my mattress search, I was interested in the two models from Charles P. Rogers that featured zippered tops (a feature I find highly desirable thanks to this website). Like many here, I was concerned about the lack of transparency regarding the materials listed on their website. I searched TMU's forum and found some information, but I wanted to check myself. So I contacted them. All I received from the customer service rep were the total inches of latex--4" in the Estate 9000 and 3" in the Nano2--and two photos showing model cutouts of these mattresses (attached below). No ILDs, no polyfoam densities, no ticking information, etc.

I realize photos without much context aren't very helpful, but I figured they were a worthy contribution to this forum because CPR's website is even less helpful. Even when I tried to "decode" their site's vernacular using the images I was given as a key, I encountered confusion. For example, The Estate 9000 is described as having a "quadruple thick comfort cassette" featuring a "slow-response latex layer plus triple thick layers of pure Talalay latex". Obviously, these words mean very little to us. But based on the photo I was given, I can surmise "quadruple thick" means 4" total; I do not know what the 2" layer is or the two 1" layers are. And the Nano2 is even more jumbled. It is also described as having a "quadruple layer comfort cassette", but the features are "double super soft slow-response latex layers" and "double nano spring comfort layers". We can clearly see five total layers and three latex layers, so I do not understand the descriptors they are using.

All this is to say: if you are considering CPR and want to know exactly what is in your mattress, you may be in for an adventure. I don't have any in-person experience with their mattresses, but they appear to have mostly durable materials and solid build quality. I was particularly impressed they made their coil units in-house. However, their opacity about their materials turned me off and I no longer considered them after my exchange with their customer service rep.

Attachments:

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Charles P. Rogers 10 Mar 2018 11:53 #74

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Hi BigTuna.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :)

Thank you for your kind and heart felt words. I’m glad that TMU community and our expert members are a useful resource and can provide the answers and the information needed to make an educated and hopefully successful purchase. Also thanks for taking the time to share your findings and contribute to our forum … I appreciate it.

I was particularly impressed they made their coil units in-house. However, their opacity about their materials turned me off and I no longer considered them after my exchange with their customer service rep.


You are correct that even though one can find desirable qualities in most mattresses... without being provided with the information needed to identify any weak links in the mattress and make meaningful value/quality comparisons to other mattresses, most people would be making a blind purchase that may not fit well in their personal value equation and the parts that are most important to them.

For those interested in any of the options you mentioned there is more about Charles P Rogers on our forum in post #34 here (and the rest of the topic) and in this topic and this topic as well and a forum search on Charles P Rogers (you can just click the link) will bring up more comments and feedback about them as well. Although these specs may have changed, there are more complete specs for the Estate Powercore 9000 and some comments about it (and Charles P Rogers in general) in post #2 here .

I am glad that our forum is allowing for “quietly answering” many mattress related questions … we can certainly see the numbers growing. :)

Pheonix
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Charles P. Rogers 02 Sep 2021 13:55 #75

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Hey @Pheonix - Sorry for bumping an old thread...is that cool or does it deserve a new post...seemed in line with whats been discussed in the past.
Just wrapped up my mattress research saga and was between Avocado or CPR SE/Lifetime 3
There is a review here on reddit that I appreciated very much and OP gave me a few more fun facts: www.reddit.com/r/Mattress/comments/paoobm/charles_p_rogers_visit/

I pulled the trigger on the Lifetime 3 then went back and asked them the recommended questions in post #34....well that didn't go well. The NY Sales manager was concerned I was trying to learn proprietary information and have been asked not to communicate via email nor will they respond. Cool right?. After we cleared up some of the background, I felt pretty stupid about that, thought my chart I sent to figure out whats-what would be helpful. He was a little more forthcoming and guessed I wasn't interested in stealing their IP... It was either I DIY or buy this one...They are marketing to the masses and don't get too many people interested. Anyways, giving back to the group with what I could decipher from the website and my call with Thomas x110 if you want to speak to him directly.

• Charles P Rogers Estate Lifetime 3, 14.25” from the bottom

• ~1.5” inch: Top Quilt: Dupont® Sorona natural fiber
o Partially plant-based polymer
o Breathable of its low water absorption, durable
• 3.5 inch: Natural Latex * Nano Spring Cassette comfort cassette unit for support and luxury with a light-as-a-feather feel.
o Latex layer in cassettes …
 Blue: softer 1.5” Talalay 24 ILD
 Micro coils in between: .5 sheet of ~5000? micro coils
 White: firmer: 1” Talalay 32 ILD
 How much is the cassette?:
• 0.75-1” inch: Intermediate support layer, inner tufted to spring unit
o Latex between comfort cassette and spring is tufted
• 8” inch: Powercore 3 Spring unit
o How many: 1000
o Double strength edge, zoned inner coils
 Firm tub
 14g pocket – tempered steel homemade – firmness
• Inner pocket, individual, compresses only where the body applies weight
• ~0.5” inch: Suspension Layer: Latex, shock absorber for the spring unit, reduces motion transfer, extends durability and
• ~0.5” Inch: Quilted down, like Sorona side panels w/heavy duty handles

Hope that helps someone. Fingers crossed its a good fit.

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Charles P. Rogers 03 Sep 2021 00:29 #76

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Hi bionicbuk.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :)

Congratulations on your new mattress! "Fingers crossed it’s a good fit.” :cheer:

Thanks for the legwork on finding the details of the mattress. I am sure that many consumers that are both concerned with durability and suitability will find your info very helpful.

Looking forward to hearing how your new mattress goes once you have a chance to sleep upon it for a while, and hopefully your mattress journey is finally wrapping up!

Phoenix
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Charles P. Rogers 03 Sep 2021 08:27 #77

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Thank you so much for sharing this @bionicbuk! My own dive into mattress research including on r/mattress and here has also led me to the same two choices: the Avocado and the CPR SE. I’m trying to decide if I can afford the Lifetime 3 instead. I haven’t found too many complaints about the quality of the CPR mattresses, except for the ones about specific salespeople being cagey about information. Thank you for clearing that up and setting my mind at ease.

If you don’t mind me asking, what made you go for the CPR over Avocado? I’ve seen more complaints about the latter on Reddit, about people finding the mattress too hard (although that is subjective), shipping delays this year, and poor customer service (lack of phone number being a red flag). I’m also inclined towards the CPR because they have some nice foundation bed options (we need a new one for these heavier latex hybrid mattresses) that are also discounted right now. The option of white glove delivery is also tempting.

Sounds like you’ve only just pulled the trigger, so it may be too early to ask, but how has your experience with CPR been so far?

Thanks to you and @phoenix for all the insights here - I’ve learned so much, and this is my first post.

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Charles P. Rogers 05 Sep 2021 18:48 #78

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Hi TiredWarbler,

You are welcome! Glad to hear our site proved helpful in your research.
Hopefully, bionicbuk is subscribed to the thread to get notification of new reply and answer your additional Qs
Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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Charles P. Rogers 05 Sep 2021 19:45 #79

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Thanks, Phoenix I connected with bionicbuk on Reddit and got my answers. And my decision matrix finally collapsed and I went ahead and ordered an Avocado Green mattress with pillowtop.

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