TOPIC:

Greetings everyone, I can't remember how I found this site but I must say that after two days of reading I'm really glad I found it. Like everyone else here, I'm in need of a mattress and I need advice. Here's a long post if you guys are willing to read through it...

My background: I work in a very physical job (think pro football player carrying a full toolbox and your getting close to what I go through daily). The job has brought me more than a few injuries, including some disc damage and a long list of sprains and strains. Add in multiple auto accidents and you can see how important a bed choice is to me now. It wasn't so much that way in the past.

After a string of car accidents about 13 years ago, my chiro prescribed a foam rubber mattress. Not understanding the difference, I took that scrip to the local Tempurpedic retailer and picked up a classic queen mattress, along with a queen size neck pillow. I was very satisfied with this for a number of years.

Within the last couple of years the support layer began to fail. The memory foam is still perfect, but with no support, whats the point? Both me and my girl wake up in agony most mornings, that is, when we sleep at all. She gets about 4 hours each night, and I do about 6, usually waking in a layer of my own sweat.

Tempurpedic is offering to replace my classic queen for 55 percent of my purchase price for one of the 3 mattresses that replaced the Classic, or they're offering a 45 percent of purchase price credit towards anything else they sell. Thats great, but I want to go to a king bed, and they won't give me the 55 percent deal plus the king difference - they're treating anything but an exact replacement as an upgrade. To illustrate how ridiculous that is, they're offering me either the Cloud Select in queen at $1699, or the Contour Select queen at $2199. They don't care which one, I just pay 55 percent of my original purchase price. But I can't add $600 to the Cloud Select queen (the difference on their website) to get a Cloud Select King - they want me to spend $1624.45, which is full price for a new king Cloud Select minus 45 percent of my original purchase. Despite how much I like some of their products, this is seriously making me want to walk away from them.

So I've been shopping. I spent several days traveling around to different Mattress Firm locations, along with several Sears stores. Finally I found this site and I've been glad for the help its given me in decoding this stuff.

I tried Stearns&Foster (the Angie model), which Sears has on sale through today for 50 percent off their $4k+ plus price. Quite comfortable, but I really didn't know if I could walk away from a viscoelastic bed and go to coils. Also, I tried two Angies 50 miles apart and they both felt different (yes, I know they do a split mattress display - I tried both sides). Still, the beds look downright regal, and the exterior seems to be very high quality material. Glad I didn't jump on that sale though, because based on what I've read, even at $2k its about 300 percent overpriced.

I tried the iComfort Savant, and I was mildly impressed with it. Quite a price drop from a Tempur bed, but I'm not sold on them. Again, glad I didn't jump, because it appears from what I read here that the bed is designed to feel great in the showroom, but heaven help you a year down the line when it gets worn in.

I'm willing to try latex mattresses, but I have no idea where on the west central coast of Florida to go check them out. A quick search turns up "Bed Pros", which I tried one store in Bradenton when I was shopping for a Tempur replacement, but I don't recall seeing any latex mattresses there.

Looking through the member list here, I found SelectFoam, and felt like I was finally getting somewhere. I really wanted to get a Tempurpedic Cloud, either the Select that Tempur was offering me, or the top of the line Luxe, which feels like laying on a cloud, really. I'm not about to spend $4700 on a damn mattress though. SelectFoam offers the Cirrus Select at $1199 with free shipping, or I could get their Cirrus Luxe in King for $2299. Or their other two Cirrus (compares to TP Cloud Supreme and Supreme Breeze) in between.

I'm looking for anyone who can offer opinions on SelectFoam's service as well as their product, and how these mattresses contrast with popular latex brands here. The price is good, the warranty is great (lifetime replacement with free pickup and delivery), and the thought of no- or low-VOC/offgassing is a plus.. I should mention that after crawling over all the new memory foam mattresses at Sears yesterday my arms feel like I've been bitten by ants. They itch and burn something fierce, a reaction I didn't expect.

I need to make my mind up very soon. We're in bad shape over here...

the memory foam is the expensive part. if the bottom regular foam layers failed - why not just open the mattress up - throw them out - and put in new foam there - it will cost you as little as $200 depending on the grade of foam you use and where you order it from.

for example: foamexpress1.com/Conventional_Mattresses.php

you just need to figure out the firmness that you need. 36 ILD is pretty typical for support layers in the mattress, but you can go anywhere from about 28 to 44 depending on your firmness preference. you can also have a softer layer on top of a firmer layer - this is what i would do - and i think this is what Tempuerpedic has anyway.

there are many other sites where you can order foam - the one i linked has the lowest prices i have seen - but even if you buy from the most expensive foam site it will be far cheaper than getting a new mattress - because you would be "recycling" the expensive foam on top and replacing only the cheap foam on the bottom.

other foam sites will have greater selection of different grades and firmnesses of foam, but at higher prices.

i have actually done what i am suggesting you do - but i did it with a spring mattress - the springs failed and i tossed them out and replaced with foam bought online - the result was twice as comfortable as the mattress was new. in your case of course i don't think you will beat a new Tempurpedic but you could mostly restore it for peanuts.

and if and when the memory foam itself fails - you can throw it out as well, and put a latex topper in its place.

word of advice when ordering foam is you may have to order thinner pieces ( 3" thick ) versus a single 6" piece if you want to save money on shipping. two 3" pieces may be something like $30 + $30 to ship while a single 6" piece may be $150 to ship and such. also by using several thinner pieces instead of a single thick one you gain the ability to fine-tune the mattress by replacing layers with firmer or softer ones. a single thick piece will be slightly more durable however, so you have to find a balance.

i'm currently building a mattress which when finished will be about 12 inches thick and i am using 2" and 3" thick layers to build it.

Hi Daemon,

The first place I would start is post #1 here which has the information, steps, and guidelines you will need to make your best choices and more information about the better places to shop and which to avoid (including most of the ones you have been looking at).

Select Foam is one of the manufacturing members of the site which means I think highly of them. You can read more about them in post #2 here .

With the many issues you have ... good local testing will be important regardless of where you make a purchase.

Some of the better options and possibilities I'm aware of in and around the Bradenton area are listed in post #5 here .

Phoenix

g1981c wrote:

the memory foam is the expensive part. if the bottom regular foam layers failed - why not just open the mattress up - throw them out - and put in new foam there - it will cost you as little as $200 depending on the grade of foam you use and where you order it from.

I actually gave that some serious thought once I read about a few people here doing DIY mattresses. The problem is that I am not doing this just for myself but also for my girlfriend. I need to get something ironed out pretty soon regarding a complete "system", and not have to put her through an experimentation phase. Plus I still have a warranty on the existing mattress and I want to make sure I get at least something for my pain and aggravation from TP. I'm probably going to take their offer of a Comfort Select mattress and then either sell it or use it in a spare room.

Thanks for the link though. I will probably take a look at that when I get the funds and time to start experimenting.

Phoenix wrote:

Some of the better options and possibilities I'm aware of in and around the Bradenton area are listed in post #5 here .

Thanks Phoenix - THAT was what I really needed - a list of local manufacturers. I thought the only one was the completely disreputable Clearwater Mattress. I bought a couple bargain basement innerspring sets from them years ago for a rental property and found out that they were taking trade-ins and recovering them.
I had no idea there were so many foam bed makers around me. I didn't know Matter made their own mattresses and I've known of them for years. I have some time off, so I'm going to go check out Matter, Innomax, Pittsburgh, and Bedmasters.
I tried BodyRestMattress.com and the site never loads, neither does the Panachemattress.com site that they own. I'm guessing they're out of business. Do you have a bricks and mortar address for them?

Hi Daemon,

I tried BodyRestMattress.com and the site never loads, neither does the Panachemattress.com site that they own. I'm guessing they're out of business. Do you have a bricks and mortar address for them?

Maybe they were down for maintenance or something but I just tried them and they're both loading now.

Phoenix

They were definitely back up. I'm going to check them out asap.

Today's topic: InnoMax

I managed to get to Innomax and get a couple of hours research in. It was an interesting environment - no salespeople, just the office manager. It was a true product showroom, not a sales floor. I was able to shop and test drive each mattress to my satisfaction. I'm still getting the hang of what to look for, so rather than focus on densities, I looked at overall construction and comfort.

Here's the list of mattresses I tried, in the order of my preference, along with their marketing phrases:


Trinity - Luxury Support Memory Cell
Memory-gel - Featuring Revolutionary Thermo-cell
Ultra-Pedic - Eco-Friendly Self-Adjusting Sleep System
Allura - Eco-Friendly Natural Latex Sleep System
Innopedic - Self-Adjusting Memory Cell mattress
Innopedic - Self-adjusting Natural Latex mattress



All of the mattresses were comfortable. After getting a general feel for each bed, I tried a side sleeping position and was pleasantly surprised to find that i could lay comfortably directly on my shoulder, which I don't recall ever being able to do before, whether it was my ancient full motion waterbed or my current Tempur Classic. The Trinity and the Memory-gel mattresses seemed quite a bit more comfortable than the others in side sleeping, and I think the Gel edged the Trinity out there, but not by much. The Trinity was by far the least expensive on the floor, so I was pretty happy with that on top of the excellent performance.

I found the Allura had a strange feel to it, aside from the evident comfort. It was like there was a sheet of cardboard in between one of the lower layers, an odd tautness to the base layer perhaps, when I settled into the comfort layer. Still a very nice experience, but I doubt I would buy it. I will probably make a return trip soon and try the Allura without the ridiculous air pillows on the display model.

I placed the latex Innopedic at the very bottom because I simply couldn't enjoy such a springy bed. There would be no way for me to even roll over to change position without setting that bowl of jello into a spasm. The memory foam Innopedic was quite a bit better. Despite this I couldn't justify the expense - the Innopedic line is a zoned mattress system, and as such was the most expensive on the floor.

I'm going to check out Bodyrest and Pittsburgh Mattress asap, hopefully by the weekend. I really want to make a trip to Port Charlotte and test some Bedmasters products, but I don't know if that'll happen before next weekend.

Thanks for the links and research Phoenix - I had no idea so many options existed.

Hi Daemon,

Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences and feedback.

Its great to see you doing good research and "field testing" and taking careful notes ... and of course sharing them with us.

I'm looking forward to hearing about more of your experiences ... and of course what you end up deciding.

Phoenix

I continued my travels through the west coast of Florida, searching for the perfect mattress and local manufacturer. The latest target: Pittsburgh Mattress Company.

The Cliff's Notes: don't bother unless you want foam but want it to feel like a spring bed.

This is a traditional local manufacturer, factory in the rear with a small showroom in the front. Very similar to InnoMax, the PMC showroom is a true product showroom, not a glaringly lit sales floor crawling with parasitic salesdroids. Its relaxing, though a bit cluttered and haphazardly laid out. One thing that stood out in contrast to InnoMax was that all the beds - every single one of them - had pillow top quilting. I felt like I had walked into an AARP-affiliated bedding store.

The lone sales person available was a pleasant lady whose name I never got. I told her the short version of my story (several back injuries and suffering on a collapsing Tempur), and made plain my desire to stay on memory foam, but also to be open to a memory foam/latex hybrid or full latex bed.

She pointed me at first to a full latex with a pillow top, which wasn't very comfortable. She explained that it was a latex over innerspring construction, with a box spring foundation. I told her that I didn't need a foundation since I was going with a platform, and that I definitely didn't want a coil mattress, regardless of whatever the top layer consisted of. She asked me to try the mattress across from it, which was a split king sitting on a motorized foundation. She said that every other display mattress was on a box spring and that split king was the only one which would feel like a platform. It was not comfortable. I sank through the comfort layer and felt the ultra firm foam beneath. It felt like an extremely firm bladder underneath a standard foam bed. I asked her if the other side of the split was the same mattress, and she told me it wasn't - that one had memory foam on it.

At that point I started wondering if we had some communication barriers because I distinctly remember I began my visit by telling her that I was leaning towards a memory foam topped mattress, but I just decided to ignore this minor glitch and kept trucking right along...

I rolled onto the other side of the split, and I immediately noticed it was more comfortable, but it didn't feel like memory foam, or at least any mf I've ever tried. While I laid there, she went over the construction of their beds and showed a cutaway of one of their mattresses. She pointed to the pillow top, which she proudly announced had a full inch of padding sewn into it. She waxed rhapsodic about the high quality of the foam materials that the owner buys, the local construction and the warranty.

When I finally got to the end of the Declaration of the Greatness of Pittsburgh Mattress Company, I reiterated that I was looking for a memory topped foam bed, or a memory/latex hybrid. She said, "Well, thats going to be expensive. You know that latex is very expensive, right?" She said that their decent quality latex king was going to be over $2300, and a latex/memory bed would be about $3600. I was too stunned to even debate that, so I attempted to thank her for her time and get out of there, at which point she went back into the second and third verse of "My Mattress Company tis of Thee". This time I heard about how common it is for a typical foam mattress to collapse within ten years - she was surprised that I only had a 3/4 inch dip in my Tempur after 12 years - and the PMC foam is such high quality that it never collapses, ever.

I listened patiently and when she finished I told her that there was nothing they could really do for me. They completely negate the benefits and even the basic effects of memory foam by insisting on using those inch thick quilts on top of it. Memory foam is heat and pressure reactive - how can it even receive body heat when it has an inch of Dacron in between me and the comfort layer? She pointed out that I was complaining about sleeping hot and that layer would keep that from happening.

I also found out that they make their mattresses double-sided, which I think makes sense for a coil mattress, but for foam? She told me that it doubles the life of the mattress by allowing that layer to "rest" and come back from having my weight on it. If I have an 85lb mattress with memory foam on both sides, the bottom layer will have the full weight of the mattress, plus me and my girlfriend, compressing it for the whole time it lays on that side. Flipping it just means a side that has been compressed for 6 months is now allowed to expand, but I'll be laying for 8 hours a day on that formerly compressed side, so how could it really recover effectively?

Besides... don't they offer this amazing, high quality foam that never collapses? Why do I need to flip it at all?

The saleslady went for a chorus of "We Can Build What You Want" before finishing the last verse of the song, and part of that was to lecture me about locally built, high quality, great warranty, etc. We finished by me explaining how Tempurpedic makes their mattress (support/transition/comfort layers, along with a sausage skin fabric to unify the layers, along with a zippered fabric/rubber cover), and the need for the memory foam to have access to body heat, and I hit the bass note by explaining that SelectFoam and InnoMax both offer king beds with great features for under $1400. I was able to leave then while she was catching her breath.

Ok, this review has turned into a diatribe against a company with some very lame designs and some very high prices. The Cliff's Notes is that people who want a foam, latex, memory foam, or foam over coil bed that looks like your grandmother bought it at Goldblatt's in 1970 and has basically none of the benefits of a foam mattress should drop what they're doing and head over there as soon as possible before those people realize that they have traveled through time and landed in 2013.

If you're willing to overlook the poorly thought out beds, the warranty service, as explained to me, is phenomenal. They offer within-the-day service on warranty issues, as in pick it up in the morning, correct the problem, and have the bed back that afternoon. Very good idea, and something you're only going to find at a local manufacturer.

Any questions?

Hi Daemon,

Wow ... what an in depth "review" of Pittsburgh Mattress ... and just as entertaining as it was informative. I hope that some of the salespeople there are more informed than the one you were dealing with.

I thought I would also add a few comments as well ...

I listened patiently and when she finished I told her that there was nothing they could really do for me. They completely negate the benefits and even the basic effects of memory foam by insisting on using those inch thick quilts on top of it. Memory foam is heat and pressure reactive - how can it even receive body hit when it has an inch of Dacron in between me and the comfort layer? She pointed out that I was complaining about sleeping hot and that layer would keep that from happening.

There are a lot of "memory foam purists" that would only consider sleeping directly on memory foam but a quilting layer can have some real benefits. They include improving ventilation compared to sleeping directly on memory foam and then can also increase the resilience of the sleeping surface (or lower it in the case of latex). The quilting would reduce or slow down the response of the memory foam but this can be offset with different types of foam formulations that are a little less sensitive to heat (and have a good response in a wider temperature range). You can read a bit more about some of the potential benefits of a quilting layer in post #2 here . In my own case for example ... I personally like a thinner latex layer over a thinner memory foam layer (this is just a personal preferences not any "better than the other way around) which creates a more resilient surface and slows down the memory foam response even though it goes against more 'traditional" memory foam layering and also reduces the response of the memory foam (which is the goal of the design).

I also found out that they make their mattresses double-sided, which I think makes sense for a coil mattress, but for foam? She told me that it doubles the life of the mattress by allowing that layer to "rest" and come back from having my weight on it. If I have an 85lb mattress with memory foam on both sides, the bottom layer will have the full weight of the mattress, plus me and my girlfriend, compressing it for the whole time it lays on that side. Flipping it just means a side that has been compressed for 6 months is now allowed to expand, but I'll be laying for 8 hours a day on that formerly compressed side, so how could it really recover effectively?

This can also extend the life of a mattress (but not double it) even for foam. When a foam layer is on the bottom ... it is compressed very evenly and over its entire surface because of the materials above it and most of the compression forces are absorbed by the mattress before they reach the bottom layer so it compresses much less than the top layers. On the top ... the areas that are under the greatest concentration of weight are the ones that will soften first. Foam also does "recover" to some degree when it is given a chance to rest (which it would on the bottom). Of course it's also important to make sure that with a double sided design that the soft layer on the bottom isn't so thick that it creates alignment issues so this is part of the difference and tradeoffs between one sided and two sided designs. Two sided designs will be more durable than one sided equivalent designs but they don't have the same design flexibility as a one sided version because the comfort layers are more limited in scope and you don't have the same progressive firmness type of layering from bottom to top throughout the mattress.

Thanks again for taking the time to write such an informative and entertaining review

Phoenix