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Help with narrowing down hybrid latex mattresses in San Diego 07 Apr 2013 22:52 #1

  • mawile
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Hi everyone,

I recently signed up for this site after buying a mattress from Sleep Train, only to find that the mattress's top layer had such a large impression after 80 days that I decided to return it today. Thank goodness for their 100 day return policy!

Now that I perused this site a bit, I decided to check out a couple mattress stores and narrowed down my choices of these latex hybrid mattresses.

Not sure if you need this info, but I am 5'2", about 125 lbs and curvy (had lower back pain with the Sleep Train Mattress's body indentation). My boyfriend is 6'2'' and weighs 253 lbs.

From DavisWorld store:
From A Bedder Buy]: Lavender Latex Hybrid Mattress by Spinal Care Bedding.


" Cotton Stretch Knit Cover
Pillowtop: Latex & High Resilience HR 1.8 lb density foam
2″ of 1.5 Foam Bottom
2″ of 1.8 Foam Top
744 Marshall Pocketed Coils
10 Year Warranty"

I personally like the feel of the Sweda Juniper Latex/Spring (that's what they call it in-store) but since the coils are connected, the bed has a lot of transfer movement, so my partner does not like it. If it had pocketed coils, I would get this in a heartbeat. My partner prefers the Ethos Refresh medium, but when I tried it in-store, it was too firm for me. They make it in a soft "waterfall" top version, but they do not have one for me to test out. They say the soft version has more talalay and is only $100 more than the model we saw. I would choose this one, but since we can't try it, I don't know how me and my partner will like it. Lastly, there's the Lavender Latex Hybrid which I like the least and my partner likes the most, but I am apprehensive to purchase it because I could not find any information as to the specifics of the inside materials (whether it's dunlop or talalay latex, what types of foam, etc).

Any help on the details of these mattresses to give me a little more guidance on what to choose? If I had my way, I would get the soft Ethos Refresh, but if it's too soft, then my boyfriend is out of luck and I think it would be tough to make the bed feel firmer, right? Or, we could get the Ethos medium, and I could buy a talalay topper, but then I'll be spending more than if I had just bought the soft version of the bed. Then there's the Lavender, but I just don't know anything about its quality. Any help is appreciated! I would like to buy the bed on Tuesday as our current bed is getting hauled away on Monday.

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Last edit: by mawile.

Help with narrowing down hybrid latex mattresses in San Diego 08 Apr 2013 09:16 #2

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Hi mawile,

I looked at the descriptions of the two mattresses you linked from Davisworld but unfortunately neither of them included details of all the layers or the quality specs of each layer. While both of them are promising (latex/innerspring hybrids can make a very good choice) ... it would be important to me to know the details of all the layers and components so that you can make meaningful comparisons to other mattresses. This means you would need to know the type and details of the innersprings, the thickness and density of any polyfoam and memory foam in the mattresses, and the thickness, type, and blend of any latex in the mattress. Since a cover is also a significant part of the cost and performance of a mattress ... it would also be helpful to know the cover material and the details of any quilting materials or fiber in the mattress. Once you have this information then you can make much better and more informed buying decisions and meaningful comparisons with other mattresses. It's the job of all good retailers to provide you with this information.

The Spinal Care at A Bedder Buy is also promising but as you mentioned it is also missing the thickness and type of latex in the pillowtop and the thickness of the 1.8 lb polyfoam (which is not HR polyfoam but HD polyfoam).

I personally like the feel of the Sweda Juniper Latex/Spring (that's what they call it in-store) but since the coils are connected, the bed has a lot of transfer movement, so my partner does not like it. If it had pocketed coils, I would get this in a heartbeat.


If motion transfer is an important part of your personal value equation ... then pocket springs would certainly be a better choice. I would keep in mind that things that bother you now when you are testing can become even more important over time. This is one of those things that could easily be a "deal breaker".

My partner prefers the Ethos Refresh medium, but when I tried it in-store, it was too firm for me. They make it in a soft "waterfall" top version, but they do not have one for me to test out. They say the soft version has more talalay and is only $100 more than the model we saw. I would choose this one, but since we can't try it, I don't know how me and my partner will like it.


You are probably wise to want to test this in person to make sure it provides you with good PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences). If they can't bring it in for you in time ... you may be able to call Diamond to see if there is another retailer close to you that carries it.

Lastly, there's the Lavender Latex Hybrid which I like the least and my partner likes the most, but I am apprehensive to purchase it because I could not find any information as to the specifics of the inside materials (whether it's dunlop or talalay latex, what types of foam, etc).


Again ... this is an important part of any buying decision because without the "quality specs" you won't be able to identify any potential weak links in the mattress or make any meaningful comparisons with other mattresses.

All of these have too many "missing pieces" of information and I would ask the retailers to find out the details that are missing. Again ... this is their job and they should have the spec sheets for all their mattresses and be willing to call the factory for any information they don't have.

There are also some other very good options in the San Diego area and if a quick call to each of these retailers indicates that the information you need isn't readily available then I would strongly consider another mattress at the same retailers where they do have all the information you need or I would consider some of the other manufacturers or retailers listed in post #2 here .

Since it appears that you are attracted to latex/innerspring hybrids ... I would talk to some of the other stores on the phone first to make sure that they carried what you were looking for on their floor and had the specs you needed as well so that you don't end up spending time at a store where the information you need isn't available. The more you do on the phone the less time consuming (and frustrating) your search will be.

It seems to me you have done some good testing to make sure that each mattress is suitable for your needs and preferences but as you can see in post #2 here and in post #5 here ... the details of the layering are just as important so you have a good idea of the relative durability of each mattress and how they compare to each other in terms of value.

Phoenix

PS ... if there is any way you can delay the removal of your old mattress I would do so or you may be under pressure to make a hurried decision without having all the information you really need.
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Help with narrowing down hybrid latex mattresses in San Diego 09 Apr 2013 20:04 #3

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Thanks for your helpful feedback.

In contacting A Bedder Buy, I found that they didn't know much about the bed than what I had previously posted. I contacted Spinal Care about the Lavender, and they said they don't give out their info to retailers and that I'm the first person to call and ask about specifics. The guy on the phone seemed like he didn't really want to answer my questions, but told me the following:

Type and details of innersprings: 744 Marshall Pocketed coils (legget & platt), 95% recycled steel
Thickness and density of polyfoam or memory foam: Thickness= 4 inch. Density = HR* (*HD per Phoenix) 1.8lb density foam 33 ILD
Thickness, type, and blend of latex in mattress: ½” latex talalay. 60/40 poly maybe (supposedly will call back with detailed info).

No call back, but that 1/2" latex isn't cutting it, and getting info from them isn't easy, so I'm crossing it off my list.


In a google search of the Ethos Hybrid by Diamond, I came across one of the threads here on The Mattress Underground and I found your information and the info from the OP very helpful in learning more about the Ethos beds. I decided to call Diamond/Ethos and they told me that I probably won't be able to find the Ethos Maple beds in San Diego because they're possibly going to discontinue that line or something, therefore I won't find any floor models. That's ok, because it's probably out of my price range, anyway! They did, however, put me on hold for a while and found ONE store that carries the Ethos Refresh Hybrid Soft!! :woohoo: This store is called Tucker's Valley Furniture aka Cash & Carry , and they have the Ethos Refresh hybrid soft and the firm! So now I can try them all as I've already tried the medium at Al Davis Furniture.

If that doesn't work out, I'll call back MattressMakers where I would be able to get a custom bed, or they said they might order a hybrid bed for their showroom since they've been thinking about it anyway. They have weird hours (closed Tues/Wed, but open by appt) so I can't get more info from them right now.

So, in the meanwhile, I'll check out the Ethos Hybrid Refresh Soft.

Other than that, I do have a couple questions. What does "waterfall" mean? The Ethos Hybrid that I'm eying says it's "soft waterfall," whereas the medium and firm say they're "smooth tight top." :huh: Also, since my partner weighs 253 lbs and I weigh about 125 lbs, would a soft mattress be a bad idea for him? The store that carries the soft version only has 1 week to test out the mattress for a return and I'm not sure my boyfriend will get a good feel for the effects of the bed on his body in 1 week. But who knows, we haven't even tried it yet!

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Help with narrowing down hybrid latex mattresses in San Diego 10 Apr 2013 00:02 #4

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Hi mawile,

Well there's some good news in your feedback anyway :)

I contacted Spinal Care about the Lavender, and they said they don't give out their info to retailers and that I'm the first person to call and ask about specifics. The guy on the phone seemed like he didn't really want to answer my questions, but told me the following:


Unfortunately this is fairly "standard" practice. It's not unusual at all for some of the replies to questions that the members here have learned to ask are along the lines of "nobody has ever asked that before". I get this all the time. My reply of course is that "I'm asking now" and "this kind of information is supplied by other manufacturers so I wanted to find out how much of the quality specs of your mattresses you are willing to disclose so that I can make better comparisons.

Things are gradually changing in some corners of the industry but only when these types of questions become the norm and manufacturers feel that lack of disclosure will cost them in terms of profits will things change a little faster. At this point marketing is still overwhelming more meaningful information in most of the industry and in some areas of the industry they are also changing for the worse. The key is for consumers to ask these questions more and more and insist on answers as part of every mattress purchase. If manufacturers have no "need" or "incentive" to disclose information about the quality and durability of the materials in their mattresses, and as long as consumers are willing to believe marketing copy regardless of the truth behind it and "buy" mattresses based on these marketing stories ... then things are much less likely to change at all. This is where many (not all) of the smaller manufacturers that sell directly to the public (or in some cases wholesale) can shine and they are actually eager to provide this kind of information and grateful to consumers who have learned enough to ask.

While I like what Diamond is doing in many cases ... as you can see in post #2 here I have tried to find information about some of the missing "specs" in their mattresses only to discover that they are not responsive at all to questions from consumers and in the end I gave up finding any more detailed information about them. I think this is unfortunate and a major marketing and credibility mistake on their part. Hopefully some of their retailers will make this information available.

I'm glad to see you found the soft version though!

Other than that, I do have a couple questions. What does "waterfall" mean?


Waterfall is just a type of cover, typically in a Eurotop, where there is no seam in the top edge and the fabric "flows over" the sides like a waterfall like this or like this instead of having a tape edge or a seam on the top.

A tight top like this will have a tighter construction that has a tape edge which will compress the materials and make them a little firmer.

Also, since my partner weighs 253 lbs and I weigh about 125 lbs, would a soft mattress be a bad idea for him?

That depends entirely on the total mattress construction and which parts of the mattress are soft and which are firm.. A soft support core would not be a great idea (it would probably allow his heavier pelvis to sink in too far) and a comfort layer that was also too thick and too soft would also not be a good idea both for durability reasons and also because of the risk of alignment issues with a heavier person. A little bit of softness would generally be fine in the comfort layers. With heavier people it is also very important to make sure that the materials in the top part of the mattress especially are durable or they will soften and degrade faster than they would for a lighter person no matter what materials are used. You can read a little more about ways to accommodate two people with very different needs or a larger weight differential in the first part of post #2 here but I would use your testing in combination with the knowledge and experience of the manufacturer or retailer to help you determine whether a mattress would work for both of you in both the short and long term rather than "theory".

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Help with narrowing down hybrid latex mattresses in San Diego 10 Apr 2013 17:30 #5

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Ok, I didn't get Phoenix-like answers for the Ethos bed, but I got some more info on the bed construction, courtesy of the employee at Cash & Carry/Tucker's Furniture (very helpful guy!).

Going from top to bottom
-Top fabric: 100% Natural cotton, 4-way stretch knit fabric
-100% Talalay Latex 1" soft
-7 lbs organic, all natural wool (guy said it was probably here, but didn't sound 100% sure)
-100% Talalay Latex 3" firmer than top layer
-HD 1.5 lb foam
-convoluted foam
-100% recycled steel, 13 gauge pocketed coils
-eco flex support base
-Mattress is then surrounded with 1.5 lb HD foam for edge support.


I like that I now know that the Talalay latex is broken up into soft and firmer layers. While I don't know the specific ILD for them, I was worried that the 3" of foam was one chunk of soft foam. Glad that's not the case! This helps me think that it would be a good fit for me and my partner. I'm going to go with it, I think. It's the best value and best comfort that me and my partner can agree on.

If anything, hopefully this info is helpful to someone else doing research on this bed. I know that I've done google searches about the hybrid beds I was looking at, only to find most of the information on this site! :) Thanks for your wealth on knowledge and this wonderful site, Phoenix!

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Last edit: by mawile.

Help with narrowing down hybrid latex mattresses in San Diego 10 Apr 2013 22:09 #6

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Hi mawile,

Step by step the information that can help others will be added to the site because of the efforts of some of the members like yourself ... thanks for the info :)

A few comments ...

This is assuming that the layers you listed are in the right order from top to bottom (a different order would make a significant difference).

-Top fabric: 100% Natural cotton, 4-way stretch knit fabric: this would be a good and breathable cover.

-7 lbs organic, all natural wool (guy said it was probably here, but didn't sound 100% sure): I would assume that this is over the 1" latex not under it. Wool also makes a good quilting material and is very durable and very breathable and helps wit temperature regulation.

-100% Talalay Latex 1" soft: this is blended Talalay which is a good quality material (latex international calls its blended Talalay natural and it's 100% natural talalay "all natural" and this mattresses uses "natural" according to the Diamond description).

-100% Talalay Latex 3" firmer than top layer: Same comments as the 1" layer.

-HD 1.5 lb foam: Normally 1.5 lb polyfoam in the upper layers could be a weak link of a mattress but in this case it is under 4" of Talalay latex which would absorb most of the compression forces of sleeping on the mattress and in this position it would be more durable.

-convoluted foam:

They don't list the density of this and it could even be referring to the previous layer. Normally convoluted polyfoam is less durable than the equivalent solid layer (there is less material in the layer) but again because of it's position in the layering there are layers above it which would add to its durability commpared to if it was closer to the top of the mattress.

-100% recycled steel, 13 gauge pocketed coils: This is a good quality component and a little lower gauge (thicker steel) than you normally find in a pocket coil.

-Mattress is then surrounded with 1.5 lb HD foam for edge support.: This is a firm polyfoam surrounding the coils for "edge support" but I am not a fan of this type of construction because of the risk of the polyfoam softening or coming loose from the innerspring. It is also lower density that I would normally want to see because 1.5 lb polyfoam is not as durable as 1.8 or higher and a polyfoam surround is really just an inexpensive way to replace steel. I would avoid sitting on the edge of the mattress on a regular basis because of this.

So outside of the foam surround ... there are some lower quality materials in the mattress but they are in a position where their lower durability would make less of a difference than if they were closer to the top.

Hope this helps ... and thanks again for listing the layers.

I think that it would certainly be better quality/value than the mainstream alternatives that most people would end up choosing.

Phoenix
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Help with narrowing down hybrid latex mattresses in San Diego 10 Apr 2013 23:35 #7

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I'm wondering if this set for about $1099 in a queen size is good. :huh: I understand that if I want all premium materials, I'm going to be spending for it, but I'm trying to find something of good value between $800 and $1100. There's another place on your list called Mattress Makers and they might be able to make something better for less, but their schedule this week makes it hard to get things going and the knowledgeable guy will be out of town to boot). I don't know if this is a San Diego thing, but a lot of latex mattresses in a queen size are about $749+ and those lower priced ones have even worse construction or less latex. Perhaps I'm just not used t the price of decent mattresses as this one would be the first non-ghetto mattresses I would have had in my life (of 28 years).

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Help with narrowing down hybrid latex mattresses in San Diego 11 Apr 2013 02:23 #8

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Hi mawile,

It certainly seems like a fair and "better than average" value to me for a mattress with 4" of Talalay latex although you haven't mentioned any of the other factors that could be an important part of your personal value equation (other accessories, foundation, other services offered by the retailer, exchange options etc) which can also be a significant part of the value of a mattress purchase.

I would consider a good latex hybrid for under $1000 in queen to be relatively good value. $1000 is not a lot for a mattress ... especially if it uses higher quality or specialty foams or other materials but of course value is relative to what you are comparing it to and what else is available to you.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Help with narrowing down hybrid latex mattresses in San Diego 14 Apr 2013 16:33 #9

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Another question. I have purchased an Ikea OPPDAL bed frame (with storage drawers) and was trying to decide on the type of slatted base for the hybrid latex bed. Which one of these would be ideal given that we bought the Ikea bed frame? I saw your suggestions for those who bought latex beds, but I haven't yet found info on what bases would be ok for hybrid beds. I bought the Sultan Luroy slats for now but I can exchange if necessary.

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Last edit: by mawile.

Help with narrowing down hybrid latex mattresses in San Diego 15 Apr 2013 14:24 #10

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Hi mawile,

A foam mattress generally does best on a firm solid base unless it is thinner or it needs some extra give underneath it in which case the flexible slats can sometimes be helpful (like an innerspring).

All of them would provide good enough support for a hybrid mattress but I would tend towards the Lade unless your experience indicates that you would do better with some extra flex underneath and the mattress was thin enough that you would feel a difference.

You could test the mattress on the floor to see if the Luroy provided any additional benefits for you that you could feel in which case it would be fine as well.

Phoenix
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