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fancy and brand name types of talalay and other foams 03 Apr 2013 15:17 #1

  • g1981c
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so Pure Latex Bliss uses "activefusion" talalay - have no idea what it even is.

then we have talalay GL, we have slow recovery etc

we have "talatech" which is apparently brand name for regular blended talalay ?

too confusing !

maybe it would be helpful to have some kind of a table or at least a list of all the types of talalay that are defined by more than just natural or blended and the ILD.

also it seems for blended talalay you can have as much as 85% natural or as little as 15% natural - it would seem this could make a difference ? nobody seems to list this. buying a brand name blended latex i think could be useful in this case.

thankfully for memory foam we have those foamex brands like Sensus so you're not buying a cat in the bag based on specs only - but you can actually read reviews from people who used exactly the same foam as you, not merely foam with same specs. if i'm going to be using memory foam i will certainly go with Sensus or another recognizable brand for which feedback exists. now it would be nice to have this kind of thing for Latex and PU foam - and it seems there is - but the information is scattered.

it would be nice - at least for things like ActiveFusion and Talalay GL and maybe Talatech - to have some kind of, as i said, table or list with whatever information we know about these brands so we don't have to buy foam on specs alone.

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Last edit: by g1981c.

fancy and brand name types of talalay and other foams 03 Apr 2013 19:09 #2

Hi g1981c,

Anyone can name the foam they use anything they want so it could be a somewhat difficult job :)

There are only two manufacturers of Talalay though that you are likely to come across ... Radium and Latex International.

Latex international blended is 30% NR / 70% SBR.

Radium's blend is also 30% SBR / 70% SBR.

Both of these also make some alternative types of latex.

Latex International also has other types of latex including Talalay GL Slow and Fast response. Both of these have phase change gel inside them to help with temperature regulation. One is fast response like regular latex and one has a slower response like memory foam. Different companies can name this anything they want.

Radium also has phase change latex called Intuition and slow response latex called Embrace.

I personally tend to go by material not by brand because it bypasses all the labelling practices of different companies but if you want to put a table together I don't think anyone would object :)

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

fancy and brand name types of talalay and other foams 03 Apr 2013 23:35 #3

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thanks for the information Phoenix.

you shouldn't underestimate the importance of brand name products though.

something like Hyundai Genesis could easily based on looks and specs be confused for a 5 series BMW - but anybody who knows anything about cars will tell you that the BMW is well worth the extra money. Hyundai got caught falsifying their MPG specs - who will catch a foam manufacturer ?

two brands of sugar don't taste the same even though they are supposed to be just sweet. two brands of chocolate will NEVER taste the same even if they have all the same ingredients and same % cocoa - it just doesn't work that way in real life - nothing is really the same.

why would it be any different for foam ?

you talk of how complex making a mattress is but i figure making foam is a lot more complex than that - and i wouldn't just assume that everybody is equally good at it, or that there is a spec for every relevant paramater - like smell, or toxicity

anyway, i went off topic :)

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fancy and brand name types of talalay and other foams 04 Apr 2013 04:07 #4

Hi g1981c,

you shouldn't underestimate the importance of brand name products though.


I don't underestimate it ... I discount it completely. I certainly don't underestimate it in terms of the marketing that is connected to it however because I see the effects of it every day unfortunately as people buy mainstream mattresses where the prices are based on marketing and consumer naivete rather than the actual quality of the materials in the mattress. One of the goals of the site of course it to help people learn how to bypass this type of purchasing so they can make meaningful comparisons between mattresses.

something like Hyundai Genesis could easily based on looks and specs be confused for a 5 series BMW - but anybody who knows anything about cars will tell you that the BMW is well worth the extra money. Hyundai got caught falsifying their MPG specs - who will catch a foam manufacturer ?


The site is not about "looks" and the specs that it helps people to learn about are quality specs or "value specs" not "comfort specs" or "appearance specs" which are subjective and relative to each person. The site is also not about cars but about mattresses and mattress materials where the "ingredients" are much less complex and easier to define and compare for those who know how to (and want to). Even with the BMW though ... the reason it is worth more is not because of the name but because of what is in the construction and components of the car and how they interact.

two brands of sugar don't taste the same even though they are supposed to be just sweet. two brands of chocolate will NEVER taste the same even if they have all the same ingredients and same % cocoa - it just doesn't work that way in real life - nothing is really the same.


I don't particularly agree with you here. Within the limits of natural variations of sugar or cocoa ... two brands that contain the same ingredients and were manufactured in the same way (especially when the manufacturers are really only packaging products made by others and have common sources) will be essentially the same. "Exactly" the same is of course not possible even with different batches of the same brand but this is not the issue at hand. The same is true of all commodities of the same grade. I just don't understand your point where minor differences in materials are being used to justify major differences in quality and value. Again mattresses and the industry the are part of don't work that way.

you talk of how complex making a mattress is but i figure making foam is a lot more complex than that - and i wouldn't just assume that everybody is equally good at it, or that there is a spec for every relevant paramater - like smell, or toxicity


I think you are getting carried away in your desire to make a point. If you read dozens (perhaps hundreds) of the articles or posts on the site you will see that your points are dealt with extensively on many occasions and I certainly don't have the time to re-write the entire site in a single post or reply. You will also see that I go by what I call "preponderance of the evidence". There is little value in my view of using minor details or the "small picture" to try to invalidate a larger picture. If your arguments are good enough for you to justify the purchase of a mattress where you have no idea of the quality of the materials in it based on brand ... then nothing stops you ... and at least you will have had the benefit of the rest of the story. The reasons why you would make any purchase ... including a mattress ... are entirely up to you.

No matter how complex it is to make foam ... as you have probably read on many occasions ... the density of the foam is the single biggest factor in foam durability. It's also true that even in the same density ... there are many variations of foam which is why (as I have explained on many occasions) it is so difficult to "duplicate" another mattress. Quality specs are not the same as comfort specs or even performance specs though and this is the reason that personal testing is so important.

So if you are a "brand shopping" advocate when it comes to mattresses (and there are many who have tried to make the same points over the history of the site) ... then there is nobody that can stop you from going in this direction ... but you certainly won't find support for your arguments here because on deeper examination they just don't hold up when you shine any light on them or learn more about the industry itself and how it really works.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

fancy and brand name types of talalay and other foams 04 Apr 2013 14:09 #5

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So if you are a "brand shopping" advocate when it comes to mattresses (and there are many who have tried to make the same points over the history of the site) ... then there is nobody that can stop you from going in this direction ... but you certainly won't find support for your arguments here because on deeper examination they just don't hold up when you shine any light on them or learn more about the industry itself and how it really works.


just to clarify i never advocated buying mattresses on brand. i advocated buying FOAM on brand.

i guess you see it as "a slippery slope" and i can certainly see how that could be the case, so i'm going to let it go and we'll agree to disagree.

i apologize for being so combative - it's nothing personal, just unfortunately my personality.

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fancy and brand name types of talalay and other foams 04 Apr 2013 20:02 #6

Hi g1981c,

Foams are not much different from mattresses.

Most of the big foam pourers have few secrets and don't really produce foams that don't have similar versions made by the others. Just like with mattresses ... most of the marketing focuses on common materials with some type of "differentiation" where little really exists.

In addition to this, foam "brands" often include many variations of foam (such as being produced in many densities or quality levels), can change formulations and keep the brand name, can be licensed out just for people who want to buy the brand regardless of whether the licensed version is the same, or can have production or quality control issues. Your "safest" way to bypass all of this is to work with retailers or manufacturers who actually test or examine the foams they use in their mattresses so they can be a "screen" between the foam producers and the consumers. I know of many cases where a manufacturer has noticed that a certain "brand" of foam is suddenly not up to the same standards as they have been previously and reject the shipment so their customers don't have to pay the price.

In addition to this ... because the different foam producers are so competitive and don't have a lot of differentiation other than marketing ... there is a lot of collusion in the industry to divide up the market as you can see in this ongoing lawsuit .

Phoenix
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fancy and brand name types of talalay and other foams 04 Apr 2013 20:08 #7

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fine, you win :)

please take a look at my "how to deaden a lively latex mattress" question.

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