>

Welcome to The Mattress Underground FORUM! :cheer:
The first place to start your research is the Mattress Shopping Tutorial
Select the Search Forum tab below to gain access to answers to many mattress related questions.
Select the Ask An Expert tab below to reach out to any of our Expert Members for guidance and advice.

×

Notice

The forum is in read only mode.

Welcome to The Mattress Underground FORUM! :cheer:

TOPIC:

hard Dunlop latex mattress for lower back pain 18 Mar 2013 15:16 #1

  • Dag
  • Dag's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 16
This is a great website with lots of information. I am so glad I found it. Thank you so much for all the info and for being so thorough answering member’s questions and their concerns.
I did read many articles already, including “How to look for and find the best mattress ... for YOU! ***READ FIRST***” and many other links listed in the article, as well as members questions and answers on topics in my interest.

Being born in Europe, we are used to sleep on harder foam beds. We are over 50 now and we finally purchased our first Dunlop latex mattress. We made bad judgment and purchases before; a memory foam bed from Value City was our latest mistake. All my husband’s lumbar disks are herniated and bulged. I have lower back pain as well, even though I was not at the doctor with my condition yet. I might have something as Sciatica, while I had sitting job all my life and ended up with a pain @ the back of my legs while sleeping. We both toss and turn due to pain discomfort each night. It is time to feel good in the morning and not to be sore when we get up.

The state we live in does not sell any of Dunlop latex mattresses. I found only one store with Talalay mattresses and my husband and I tested some of their models. The beds in this store were much better than in the regular stores; however, they didn’t have any hard models due to popularity of soft mattresses.
We tried Sleep number bed and their hardest mattress as well, but we didn’t like the fact, that an air has to be pumped in frequently to keep the air bed hard. So we finally ordered our fist Dunlop latex mattress after 5 months of studying hard mattresses on the Internet. We have to order the second bed for our king bed frame and are little worried we won’t order the correct ILD again.

Our first Twin Dunlop latex mattress is Natural Sense from foamorder.com. It is a Pillow-top model with 3” hard top layer and 3” hard bottom core (ILD 45). We like the mattress; the quality is good for the price we paid. It smells tiny bit, but only if we sniff it, which does not bothers us. We also purchased the Adjustable bed series 400 bed frames. We like the massage option and the flexibility of adjustments as well. We just hope they won’t create a problem for the Dunlop latex while they are not slatted.

The new Dunlop latex mattress is little too hard for us. We both have no problems sleeping on it on the side; however, we both ended up with the back pain we used to have on our softer beds again. My husband is 6’-6” @ 270 lbs, I am 6’-5” @ 160 lbs. We can’t make a decision how hard should our 3” top layer be. We will use the 3” hard Dunlop latex for the bottom core for both our Twin beds. We were thinking about ILD of 31 Firm Dunlop latex. We like the fact that Dunlop is not as springy and that it should last longer. We have no idea what the difference between the different ILD’s is, we assume the value solely based on your very informative web site, your mattress forum and another forums on the Internet.

Thank you in advance for advice and/or recommendations.

hard Dunlop latex mattress for lower back pain 18 Mar 2013 18:13 #2

  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 31985
Hi Dag,

Unfortunately there are so many variables of body type, sleeping style, physiological condition, and preferences, that there is no formula that can "predict" which type of layering you will do best with except in very general terms or "theoretical" terms. This means that there are really only 3 ways to know which layering you would tend to do best with.

So while I can't tell you "what" to choose (that should always be based on more detailed conversations between you and the manufacturer or retailer you are working with who have much more detailed knowledge of the materials they use and the options they have available than I do) ... I may be able to help you with "how" to choose.

The first of these is carefully testing a mattress in person. I know you mentioned that you didn't think there were any Dunlop mattresses available close to you that you could test in person but there may be some options that you haven't found in your area and if you let me know your city or zip I'd be happy to let you know of any I'm aware of.

The second is to talk in more detail with a manufacturer or retailer you are considering who can help you choose a mattress layering that "on average" matches others in their customer base that seem similar to you. While you may not fit the "averages" that they use ... at least this would put the odds of success much more in your favor.

Finally you can order a mattress where you can re-arrange or exchange layers so that if your own personal experience on the mattress doesn't "match" what you are hoping for then you can either re-arrange layers or exchange layers for others that are firmer or softer.

If the first option is not available where you can test mattresses in person either as a purchase or as a guideline for an online purchase ... then I would strongly suggest a purchase which are a combination of #2 and #3 where you can start off with a mattress where the odds are better that it will match what you need and prefer but where you can either re-arrange or exchange layers to fine tune it based on your actual experience.

A list of some of the manufacturing members here that sell latex (including natural Dunlop) where this is available is in post #21 here .

I also think that you may need more thickness in a mattress both to provide layering options and to accommodate your husband's higher weight. You can read more about the potential benefits of a thicker mattress in post #14 here .

Layer thickness and layer softness work hand in hand to create the performance and feel of a mattress and I think that the combination of 45 ILD Dunlop and only having 6" of latex in your mattress would create a mattress that is too firm for the vast majority of side sleepers.

Our needs and preferences and the condition of our bodies also change over the decades and what once was great for us to sleep on may not work nearly as well a few decades later.

You may also have different needs and preferences because of your different body types so each of you may decide on different layering combinations. I would also keep in mind that foam gets firmer as you compress it more and latex gets firmer faster than other types of foam. This is called the compression modulus of a foam (also support factor, sag factor and other names as well) and Dunlop has a higher compression modulus than Talalay. This doesn't mean it is "better" ... only that it gets firmer faster and either one may be beneficial in certain designs or particular body types. Some people may need to sink in more and others may need to sink in less but in both cases it's usually a good idea to use softer foam on top than 45 ILD because latex that starts off softer will get firmer as you sink in deeper and is very supportive compared to other foams. I would guess at a minimum that medium would be a better choice but again ... thicker may work better yet because it can be more adaptive to different weights and has a greater "range" of compression than thinner mattresses.

Since you already have two "hard" layers ... then it would make sense to use these as the base layer for both of your mattresses and then build on this with softer layers to "complete" both mattresses with softer layers.

We also purchased the Adjustable bed series 400 bed frames. We like the massage option and the flexibility of adjustments as well. We just hope they won’t create a problem for the Dunlop latex while they are not slatted.


In the large majority of cases this will be fine. While I tend to prefer a slatted base when other choices make it possible, it would usually take a combination of factors to create the conditions where mold and mildew with a latex mattress becomes an issue. You can read more in post #10 here . I also use a solid surface adjustable bed because we wanted the adjustable and any additional risk was worth it to us.

The new Dunlop latex mattress is little too hard for us. We both have no problems sleeping on it on the side; however, we both ended up with the back pain we used to have on our softer beds again. My husband is 6’-6” @ 270 lbs, I am 6’-5” @ 160 lbs. We can’t make a decision how hard should our 3” top layer be. We will use the 3” hard Dunlop latex for the bottom core for both our Twin beds. We were thinking about ILD of 31 Firm Dunlop latex. We like the fact that Dunlop is not as springy and that it should last longer. We have no idea what the difference between the different ILD’s is, we assume the value solely based on your very informative web site, your mattress forum and another forums on the Internet.


The goal is always spinal alignment and both mattress that are too hard and too soft can both cause issues in alignment for many reasons including that they can "tilt" the pelvis outside of it's neutral range which in turn changes the curvature of the spine. Pelvic tilt in either direction can cause back issues. Excess pressure in some areas (like the hips) or lack of flexibility in certain joints can also cause the spine to twist which can also cause back issues. The goal is to have the primary support that "stops" the pelvis from sinking in or "tilting" too much in either direction and at the same time to have enough softness in the top layers to "allow" the bony prominences to sink in enough and provide the secondary support that fills in the recessed areas of the spinal curves and helps maintain their natural alignment.

I should also mention that Dunlop is not typically more durable than Talalay and in practical terms I would treat them as "equals".

Hopefully this can give you some good ideas and some very knowledgeable people to talk with on the phone so they can add their suggestions and information to mine and both of you can start sleeping better very soon :)

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

hard Dunlop latex mattress for lower back pain 18 Mar 2013 22:18 #3

  • Dag
  • Dag's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 16
Phoenix, thank you so much for your fast response. I am very impressed once again.

Our zip is 46168. Thank you.
We do have 90 day option of mattress layers exchange with the foamorder, we just do not like to return items. We would like to be good customers and happy buyers in the same time. I realize it might not happen this time. The salesperson didn’t give us recommendations due to our back problems. We understand him not wanting to be liable for his recommendations. He was very nice otherwise, we were pleased with him. We will try to talk to someone else next time while placing an order for the second Twin mattress and ask for recommendation based on average as you pointed out. I realize not everyone goes on the Internet and does a research what would be the best hardiness/softness. The ones I read about bought hard mattresses, some even like their ILD 45’s, which is too hard for us now. We were shocked by ourselves that our sleeping needs are so much different after 25 years long craving for hard beds.

hard Dunlop latex mattress for lower back pain 19 Mar 2013 03:18 #4

  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 31985
Hi Dag,

Our zip is 46168. Thank you.


I'm glad I asked because there are some options in the general Indianapolis area within reasonable driving distance where you can test latex. They are listed in post #2 here .

The salesperson didn’t give us recommendations due to our back problems. We understand him not wanting to be liable for his recommendations. He was very nice otherwise, we were pleased with him.


I understand this as well and manufacturers generally don't give specific "recommendations" because there is no way to know for certain how well someone will do on particular layering but most of them will provide you with "suggestions" or information about the more typical choices that others of your height and weight may tend to do better with so it would be more in the realm of guidance.

The ones I read about bought hard mattresses, some even like their ILD 45’s, which is too hard for us now. We were shocked by ourselves that our sleeping needs are so much different after 25 years long craving for hard beds.


I think it would be rare that most people who were typical side sleepers would do well with 6" of 45 ILD Dunlop ... even in their "younger" days ... and those who say they liked it would be exceptions IMO.

"Hard" beds are just not great choices for most people (and too soft is just as bad in most cases) and the ideal tends to be firmer core layers with enough softness on top that there is good pressure relief and conforming or "secondary" support. At least you have some good options to test latex nearby which can give you a better sense of what you may do best with and that can act as a reasonable guideline for your second mattress.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

hard Dunlop latex mattress for lower back pain 20 Mar 2013 21:34 #5

  • Dag
  • Dag's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 16
Hello Phoenix,

thank you so much once again.

We visited couple of the listed companies months ago. I didn’t know about some of them while they do not list exactly what their mattresses are made from and they didn’t show up while Google-searching.

www.maymattress.com/AboutUs/tabid/668/Default.aspx I was in the warehouse/store today. They have way much better foam selections than any other store in central Indiana. They have examples of what foams are inside of the mattresses and Larry is ready to customize your bed to your liking, i.e. making the mattress less high, putting foam inside to make the mattress softer or harder. These mattresses do not have zippers, however they are nice quality and they are reasonably priced comparing to other foam mattress stores.

They have also a nice selection of different foam pillows and cooling/heating pad with remote. I wasn’t aware of their special offer of $9.90 Memory foam pillow and therefore I didn’t get any; but, I would while I tested them.

And I forgot to mention they will give you brochure to take home, this is what I call business.

The holderbeddingoflafayette.com web site doesn’t exist anymore.

My husband was in the www.holderbedding.net Anderson store and he didn’t like that the store appealed dirty (i.e. carpets) to him, though all the mattresses were clean. The mattress he tried was way too soft and they didn’t have any examples of what is inside of the mattresses. Also this is not the best area to be driving around.

As you pointed out, we are not as young anymore and have different physical requirements we didn’t use to have 10-20 years ago. While purchasing mattresses before, some of them felt good laying on in the stores. They were the hardest we could find at the time of purchase, but felt wrong already after couple of months of ownership; they ended up being too soft for us and not a good quality material, even though we did buy more expensive mattresses from different local stores. My husband’s back pain is many years old problem and he was the first one to complain about the wrong purchase we made again 5 years ago. Therefore we are so picky of what to buy. I am so glad there is Internet and that we can order from another state as California that have much wider variety of natural mattresses due to the wide variety of population from Europe, Asia… and therefore different sleeping habits and requirements.

One thing we don’t like is the salespersons do push buyers to purchase their products they sell, ignoring our material preferences and some even make untrue claims about Dunlop just to sell what they have in stock. It is a tactic that turns my interest away from purchasing anything at all.

The Foamorder is a manufacturer and they have stores in California selling beds as well. We really like their prices. If the order is over $1200, the shipping is free. There is 15% discount on order with a code listed right on their web site. I noticed the discount names change based on the months or holidays; however, the percentage seems to be always 15%. The only thing I didn’t agree with was their vacuum-sealed shipping on Dunlop latex. We asked for regular shipping and our mattress was folded in half and shipped in a cardboard box. Their warranty is 20 years and we were assured the vacuum-sealing won’t cause faster future deterioration of Dunlop mattress. I researched Australian and European mattresses and also in different languages as well and that is how I found that Dunlop should not be vacuum-sealed. Can you confirm this?

I agree with you on the side sleepers, they normally prefer softer beds. We are an unusual/rare exception to this matter and I believe it is due to the fact how we used to sleep for 25 years from the day one on this planet. My friends in Europe still steep on hard mattresses and do not complain about back pain while sleeping. Though, they do not own a house and do not perform hard physical work as my husband and sometimes even I do. The fact, that we drive everywhere with cars can also contribute to my back-leg pain (Sciatica) problem. I am just trying to say, my husband and I are Americans that wanted to sleep as Europeans, who have different lifestyles than we do. My husband and I have to forget about what we used to do.

If you would be interested, I can post few links for different bed styles. They are sold in here by couple of stores only. These beds use coconut husk in the core to better up the hardiness of the beds. I really researched a lot and asked around.

To end our current research, we agree that too hard mattress is not good just as too soft mattress. We will order medium 31 ILD and hard 36 ILD Dunlop to use over the 45 ILD Dunlop core. My husband keeps insisting on the harder mattress, we will see how that will work. If we won’t like it, we might exchange; however I am thinking to order another 3” layer and use it under the expensive Pillowtop mattress cover we spent quiet bit money on (it is not returnable and we knew it). I can let you know how it all ends up.

hard Dunlop latex mattress for lower back pain 21 Mar 2013 01:21 #6

  • jege41
  • jege41's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member
  • Posts: 70
Hi Dag

I'm wondering if you have an Ikea in your area as they sell a quality Dunlop mattress with 85% natural and 15% synthetic and it is what I would consider quite firm. It is called the Sultan Edselle and the Ikea warranty is also very good.
Good luck

hard Dunlop latex mattress for lower back pain 21 Mar 2013 06:33 #7

  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 31985
Hi Dag,

Thanks for the heads up about Holder in Lafayette. Their new website is www.holderbeddinglafayette.com/ and I've changed it in the forum lists as well.

I researched Australian and European mattresses and also in different languages as well and that is how I found that Dunlop should not be vacuum-sealed. Can you confirm this?


I think compression is better than vacuum but for short periods of time for shipping purposes it won't do any harm but over extended periods I think it could harm and impress the latex yes.

My husband and I have to forget about what we used to do.


I wish you luck with that. Sometimes things never seem to leave my mind no matter how hard I try and yet sometimes I forget what I did the day before :)

If you would be interested, I can post few links for different bed styles. They are sold in here by couple of stores only. These beds use coconut husk in the core to better up the hardiness of the beds. I really researched a lot and asked around.


I would certainly welcome forum members posting links to mattress they particularly like. Coconut Coir or rubberized coir isn't as popular here as in Europe but it's catching on and there are a few manufacturers who use it here as well including Natura and Naturalmat with their childrens mattresses and SavvyRest uses it for their bed rug as well. I've never had the chance to sleep on it but I know it's a very firm material (probably over 40 ILD).

To end our current research, we agree that too hard mattress is not good just as too soft mattress. We will order medium 31 ILD and hard 36 ILD Dunlop to use over the 45 ILD Dunlop core. My husband keeps insisting on the harder mattress, we will see how that will work. If we won’t like it, we might exchange; however I am thinking to order another 3” layer and use it under the expensive Pillowtop mattress cover we spent quiet bit money on (it is not returnable and we knew it). I can let you know how it all ends up.


I'm looking forward to hearing about how it all works out. I have to say that your new configuration sound's a lot more "sleepable" than the one you had ... but of course everyone has their own preferences.

Perhaps your husband will become a convert to slightly softer mattresses once he's had a chance to sleep on it :)

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

hard Dunlop latex mattress for lower back pain 22 Mar 2013 00:53 #8

  • Dag
  • Dag's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 16
Hi jege41,

Thank you for your suggestion. I did as matter research Ikea's mattresses as they are hard. They do not have Twin XL size; therefore I couldn't include them in my priorities. I like their very low prices and love their warranties. I did install Ikea kitchen cabinets one year ago and we all love it a lot, especially the price and warranty. We have to drive to Ohio to shop. It is a trip a like to do, I need a thick wallet to go there though while I would like to purchase a lot of stuff.

hard Dunlop latex mattress for lower back pain 22 Mar 2013 01:03 #9

  • Dag
  • Dag's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 16
Hi Phoenix,

You are really the one to ask for anything and you are right on top of everything. Thank you so much again. I will not ask for non-vacuum sealed shipping this time. It makes sense what you said.

I will definitely let you know how we will end up. We will be placing the order for the second mattress tomorrow. I really like the fact that I can change the foams inside of the mattress cover. I think this is the way for us to go.

Here are some links to our national web sites with coconut husk core mattresses. As you mentioned they are latex impregnated for flexibility. I would love to put one under our mattress for better ventilation, I am just afraid it is not good idea at all while we have the adjustable bed frames. I had no idea Savvy Rest is offering them. I have few latex foam examples from them, they are really nice company. Knowing before what I know today, I would order from them. I like their customer service and the material of their mattresses as well. OK, now to the links:

www.dreammattressorganics.com/brands/PalmPring-USA.html

www.palmpringusa.com/products/

www.naturalhome-products.com/mattresses/78/natural-latex-and-coir-mattresses/

New Zeeland for a change
www.innature.co.nz/products/natural-latex-and-coco-latex-mattresses/

German
www.avalon-naturtextil.de/Schlafen/Matratzen/Matratzen-fuer-Erwachsene:::7718_8713_8716.html?gclid=CMbel8uzg7QCFckWMgodiAEApw

www.naturbetten-dresden.de/kaufen-p31h10s14-Lonsberg-Madras-Classic-Latex-Kokos-.html?sid=fcc3dc55b746f3fa74773c2725fc642c

Slovak, where I am from
translate.google.com/translate?sl=sk&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.matrace-vegas.sk%2Fmatrace%2F (number one quality in Slovakia)

www.materasso.eu/uploads/media/Folder-mattresses-2007-EN.pdf

translate.google.com/translate?sl=sk&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.segum.sk%2Fprodukty%2

Some of the mattresses type will be sold in here in the future, although it might take little time. I almost made an international order from the Segum, just didn't like the warranty return options. I was searching for the mattresses for a very long time :(

Thank you sooo much for all your help Phoenix!

hard Dunlop latex mattress for lower back pain 12 Apr 2013 15:08 #10

  • Dag
  • Dag's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 16
I finally received the second mattress today. It took the FoamOrder 3 weeks to deliver it.
That is not that huge of an issue as something else.
The cover quality is as good as the first one, I am happy with the pillowtop organic cover. The problem is, they did send us dingy used damaged ILD 28 latex foam. I made a video unpacking it and I took pictures upon the discovering of damaged and not new latex mattress. I emailed Vanessa (she takes care of customer orders and/or questions) just few minutes after I opened the vacuumed mattress. I asked for a prompt replacement with new ILD 28 Dunlop latex foam. I hope she will email me back soon. I will let you guys know how it all ends up.
I am attaching couple of the images.

Here are the links:
img541.imageshack.us/img541/2788/cimg3571medium.jpg

img109.imageshack.us/img109/2424/cimg3570medium.jpg

img545.imageshack.us/img545/3383/cimg3569medium.jpg

img837.imageshack.us/img837/5363/cimg3568medium.jpg

img825.imageshack.us/img825/3454/cimg3567medium.jpg
The Mattress UndergroundCopyright © 2022 The Mattress Underground
TheMattressUndergounf
TMU
TheMattressUndergounf