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Eco pur by dreameasy vs. locally made mattress by Waterloo Mattress for 5 yr boy 16 Mar 2013 03:26 #1

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Big boy bed ready to deliver and need mattress. Would like some feedback on two models in particular.....1) Eco-pur 4400 cushion firm tight top, wanting to know if the pure latex is near the top and if so, how much is actually there and if the remainder of the foam is suitable for child...ie. is it polyfoam or soybased and does it still contain chemicals...quilting on top is bamboo. 2)Second choice is from waterloo mattress and is made locally here. It is their classic. Purchased simiar model for older child in 2008, it was a tight top with continuous coil. Had felt, cotton and wool layers I believe. Nice firm mattress and first child loves his bed. Top was quilted cotton that we specifically requested with no fire retardents. Looking at same mattress but now it has a pillow top. Believe layers are still felt, cotton and wool. Not sure if pillow top has foam...do you recommend us asking. Top quilting is bamboo and they did indicate that this had no fire retardents on it. Also, the rest of the materials are natural as well. Are there any other questions we should be asking regarding this mattress? It will be placed on wood slat foundation of new bed. This model felf very comfortable and not squishy soft, it had a nice firmness to it.. Children like me to periodically lay with them. Older child's bed very uncomfortable for me due to pressure points etc. This mattress does not have an overly plush pillow top but just comfortable enough. Your comments are very welcome as we are struggling with the best choice. Both are comparable in price....

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Last edit: by sweetdreams. Reason: added xtra details

Eco pur by dreameasy vs. locally made mattress by Waterloo Mattress for 5 yr boy 16 Mar 2013 04:38 #2

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Hi sweetdreams,

1) Eco-pur 4400 cushion firm tight top, wanting to know if the pure latex is near the top and if so, how much is actually there and if the remainder of the foam is suitable for child...ie. is it polyfoam or soybased and does it still contain chemicals...quilting on top is bamboo.


The Dreameasy website doesn't have the layering of the Ecopur 4400 but you can see it in post #3 here which indicates a layer of polyfoam (probably in the quilting) along with the wool above the 2" of latex. I would want to know how thick this was.

2)Second choice is from waterloo mattress and is made locally here. It is their classic


Their site doesn't list any of their specific mattresses so I would need to know the specific layering of this mattress (with foam densities) to make any comments or meaningful comparisons. Most smaller local manufacturers are happy to provide it for you.

As you can see from the second guideline here ... I personally wouldn't buy any mattress unless I knew the details of every layer (including form density) because that's the only way to know its quality or value or identify any potential weak links in the mattress.

You can read more about ecofoams or plant base foams in post #2 here . Basically they are just polyfoam with a small part of one of the two main chemicals replaced with some highly modified plant oils. I would treat them as being equivalent to polyfoam.

Post #2 here has links to all the better forum posts and threads about mattresses for children. Children need firmer mattresses than most adults and what is usually best for them would not be particularly comfortable for most adults. I would not choose a "plush" or pillowtop mattress for a child that was still growing. About 1 - 2" of soft foam is the most I would consider and I would go with a medium or firmer comfort layer with only a little bit of sinking in.

Phoenix
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Eco pur by dreameasy vs. locally made mattress by Waterloo Mattress for 5 yr boy 16 Mar 2013 14:56 #3

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Have called waterloo mattress to get the specs on the coil mattress: I was actually surprised b/c they have made some changes in the last 5 years or so. Apparently they can't get the really good cotton anymore.

Classic: From top down
quilting/ticking top - bamboo fabric
3" polyfoam (1.9 pound MEDIUM softness but can but changed to firm)
The above is the pillow top portion
3/4" polyfoam (1.9 pound firm)
2 layers of cotton felt insulator pad - 1/2"

If there are any extra details you require that I may have missed, please let me know.

They used to lay the foam pad on top of the cotton layer as the cotton overtime would compress. There is no longer the natural cotton layer. I was told to that a 2" compression in the top over time would be normal.....and that the extra layer of foam further down helps with the overall comfort of the mattress as well

Eco-pur 4400 : I have read the post you offered. Has anyone yet to determine what the comfort foam is made o and how thickf, and what type of latex is in the mattress. Do we know what percentage of soy is in the base of the poyfoam.....

We are wanting to stick in the 800 range for a good double mattress (no box spring included). I beleive the Zed beds will take us to about 1200 for a mattress alone and I believe the Natura sunshine will be about 1200 as well. Any other sugguestions...

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Eco pur by dreameasy vs. locally made mattress by Waterloo Mattress for 5 yr boy 16 Mar 2013 19:40 #4

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Hi sweetdreams,

1.9 lb polyfoam is a good quality material but 3" of it may be a little on the soft side and I would personally prefer a higher latex content if I had the choice (all else being equal)

I don't know the thickness of the Dreameasy quilting layer (but it would be likely be less than the 3" of polyfoam in this mattress). The soy content is not that relevant (more soy isn't much better than no soy) but Dreameasy may be able to tell you both if you call them (or have your retailer call).
.

We are wanting to stick in the 800 range for a good double mattress (no box spring included). I beleive the Zed beds will take us to about 1200 for a mattress alone and I believe the Natura sunshine will be about 1200 as well. Any other sugguestions...


You've probably seen post #2 here with the better options or possibilities I'm aware of in the area but I just added Ikea to the list as well (which would be a bit of a drive from Waterloo) which also has some good choices in your price range (such as the Sultan Edsele or the Sultan Heggedal ).

Phoenix
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Eco pur by dreameasy vs. locally made mattress by Waterloo Mattress for 5 yr boy 16 Mar 2013 20:56 #5

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Hi there, so if I'm understanding correctly, you are indicating that it would be better to have some natural latex in the mattress in comparision to a mattress with only the 1.9 pound polyfoam? In that case, would the dreameasy be a better quality bed depending upon the thickness of the natural latex layer and the wool/foam quilting layer. I will contact the company and Monday and ask for clarification of all their materials for the layers.

With the coil and foam mattress from Waterloo Mattress - would you have them change the pillow top layer to a thinner polyfoam ie. less than 3" and go with something with a stronger density? If yes, what density and thickness would you recommend?

How do you rate the dreameasy with the two ikea models. I was on their website today, and I believe one of those models was a mix of natural and synthetic latex approx 85/15%.

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Eco pur by dreameasy vs. locally made mattress by Waterloo Mattress for 5 yr boy 16 Mar 2013 22:45 #6

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Hi sweetdreams,

Hi there, so if I'm understanding correctly, you are indicating that it would be better to have some natural latex in the mattress in comparision to a mattress with only the 1.9 pound polyfoam?


Latex is a higher quality, better performing, more durable, more "natural" (in most cases), and more costly material than polyfoam even though 1.9 lb polyfoam is itself higher quality polyfoam than you usually find in the comfort layers of a mattress (particularly mainstream mattresses). Since the weak link of a mattress in terms of foam softening and the loss of comfort and support is in the upper layers of a mattress, if a mattress uses latex as a majority of the materials in the upper layers and if all the other factors that contributed to the "value" of a mattress were equal or very similar then I would choose it yes.

With the coil and foam mattress from Waterloo Mattress - would you have them change the pillow top layer to a thinner polyfoam ie. less than 3" and go with something with a stronger density? If yes, what density and thickness would you recommend?


The polyfoam in this mattress is already a higher than normal density so this isn't really an issue unless you decide to use the next grade up of polyfoam which is HR polyfoam (which starts at 2.5 lbs and also has a compression modulus of 2.4 or higher and a resilience of 60%) which is a higher performance foam and has some latex like qualities but is also more costly. It's still doesn't have the same quality or performance as latex though for the most part although it's still a less costly material. If the mattress is quite firm then the polyfoam may be firm enough (I can't feel it so you would need to use your best estimate and the guidance of the manufacturer) but I would make sure that it was firmer than you would normally be comfortable with and that there wasn't a lot of sinking in.

How do you rate the dreameasy with the two ikea models. I was on their website today, and I believe one of those models was a mix of natural and synthetic latex approx 85/15%.


The latex in the DreamEasy is 100% natural (I believe Dunlop) which is a higher quality latex than the latex used in the Ikea Edsele or Heggedal both of which use 85% natural (and are probably produced through a continuous pour on a belt rather than a mold) but having said that ... the Dreameasy only has 2" and the Ikea Edsele has 7" and also has wool in the quilting. The Heggedal doesn't say the thickness of the latex but it also includes other more natural materials (wool, horsehair, coir). The coil count is a little lower than you would normally see in a pocket coil mattress but they are firm and this is a support component. Coir is also a good and durable insulator material to even out the compression of the coils. An innerspring is not normally the weak link anyway (and the coils are certainly adequate). The materials in both are certainly more "natural" and less "chemical" than polyfoam and from a quality of materials perspective I would say they were both better value.

Phoenix
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Eco pur by dreameasy vs. locally made mattress by Waterloo Mattress for 5 yr boy 18 Mar 2013 21:13 #7

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Hi Phoenix, Have been expanding our search. Looking for a great mattress is crazy.

Went and tried out the Natura Beds, Your thoughts on the tranquil? Also, checked a local company that has made foam bed for 30 years or so, using firm polyfoam with a 2.5lbs. The had a display model of 6" of firm 2.5 lbs with a 2" soft 2.5 lbs. Their foams are definately top notch. Just thinking outloud here....the have a 6" polyfoam 2.5 lbs in a firm density that they often use for children's bed....by thought...That provides a really solid and firm core....since some beds on the market only have 2" of natural latex, what about placing a Natura Latex topper on the Polyfoam bed? The Latex topper has 2" of talalay latex with cotton, wool etc. What are your thoughts on the Natura Tranquil and the foam Mattress that would be from Beam Bedding that has been around since 1932 and really knows their foams?


Also, wanting to know if you have ever checked out a company at www.galaxybedding.ca? Would love your feedback on their upper end mattresses....

And the search continues. I see that someone has had luck with the Sultan Heggedal, perhaps we'll check it out. Just wish I knew the more the specs on that mattress.

Lastly, called and emailed Eco-pur by Dreameasy today and have left message asking for more detailed information in their levels...I also asked if they would ever consider bumping up their latex layer.

Your mattress forum and help is greatly appreciated.

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Eco pur by dreameasy vs. locally made mattress by Waterloo Mattress for 5 yr boy 19 Mar 2013 02:58 #8

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Hi sweetdreams,

Went and tried out the Natura Beds, Your thoughts on the tranquil?


It's not really possible to make a meaningful assessment on the Tranquil because they don't list the density of the polyfoam they use but I can tell you in more general terms that Natura tends to use higher quality materials but are not as good in terms of their value (they tend to be more than other mattresses that use the same quality of materials but this would also depend on the prices that are charged by a particular retailer).

Also, checked a local company that has made foam bed for 30 years or so, using firm polyfoam with a 2.5lbs. The had a display model of 6" of firm 2.5 lbs with a 2" soft 2.5 lbs. Their foams are definately top notch. Just thinking outloud here....the have a 6" polyfoam 2.5 lbs in a firm density that they often use for children's bed....by thought...That provides a really solid and firm core....since some beds on the market only have 2" of natural latex, what about placing a Natura Latex topper on the Polyfoam bed? The Latex topper has 2" of talalay latex with cotton, wool etc. What are your thoughts on the Natura Tranquil and the foam Mattress that would be from Beam Bedding that has been around since 1932 and really knows their foams?


I only talked with Dreambedding once and it was quite some time ago (see post #2 here ) but it was enough to know that they are clearly knowledgeable and transparent and have good quality and value. 2.5 lb polyfoam is a high quality material and if it is an HR polyfoam then it would have many similar qualities to latex (although still not in the same quality or performance range).

The Natura topper could be more costly than other 2 latex toppers (again depending on the prices charged by the retailer that is selling it) but it could be a good choice if it was on top of the 6" polyfoam core alone. I wouldn't put it on on top of the 6" core and the 2" soft comfort layer. I would also make sure it wasn't too soft and would tend towards medium firmness rather than soft.

Phoenix
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Eco pur by dreameasy vs. locally made mattress by Waterloo Mattress for 5 yr boy 19 Mar 2013 16:37 #9

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Thank you Pheonix, purchasing a mattress sure entails many decisions...

Regarding the Beam Bedding foam mattress, they can also make the core any height that we would like in the firm 2.5 lbs, and we are considering a little higher since the new bed will have side rails and wouldn't want the mattress to be too flat. Instead the the 6" core with 2" soft 2.5 lbs, we can use a 7" firm core (2.5) and the medium firmness (2.5 lbs)for the 2" top layer. Would this be a better recommendation?

Believe me, there is nothing soft and squishy about a Beam foam bed. Even with the firm 2.5 and the 2" layer of the soft 2.5, you are still lying on someone far more solid than we have seen elsewhere. Far too firm for my liking!

Also, regarding layering on a latex topper, do you have any recommendations for brands other than Natura in our area of Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge/Guelph? I do know that Natura tends to really outprice themselves. I have felt this for a very long time.

Also, regarding a topper, how exactly do they stay on top of the bed? Is there anything to help secure them to the top of the mattress.

For readers out there, had a email back from Eco-Pur, the 4400 is discontinued and will be replaced with the 4410. FYI, I did receive further specs and was fairly disappointed: Soybased poly of 9" at 1.8 lbs with ILD of 30, 2" of natural latex in CENTRE SUPPORT, 16 oz wool and 1" poly topper. Still yet to receive density of 1" but I'm pretty sure it will be 1.8. Also, emailed back for clarification of the latex layer....was shocked to here only in CENTRE? The 5500 is being replaced with the 5510, and it has the sames specs with the addition of a full 2" latex layer. Still do not know what is in the pillow top. Also, for anyone wanting to know just how much soy is in products....these beds on 10%!

Lastly, were you able to check out www.galaxybedding.ca. Not sure if there is anything on it worth pursuing....there was one model call Bio Plush: Core: 7" 1.8 lbs soypoly, 3" foam support stabilizer (same density?), 3" natural latex, 2" supersoft foam (density missing), 2 1/2" decking (what the heck is that?), quilting 1 1/2" ultra firm foam with tack n jump quilting, 40 oz high resilient poly (density missing), pure organic pava ticking. Do you think this is worth contacting regarding desnities? Apparently made in Toronot.

Lastly, we have always loved our continuous coil mattresses, and when I received the specs from Waterloo Mattress, there was an error. Here is the listing of the correct specs: From bottom up: continuous coil, 1/2" cotton felt insulator pad, 3/4" HR41 2.5 lbs FIRM polyfoam (here is where the correction is...previously stated only 1.9 lbs in HD foam), 3" HD 1.9 lbs MEDIUM poly, bamboo quilt. They do not use any soft polys. The reason they are now using the 3" is that they can no longer get the good quality cotton that was placed direclty below the comfort 1.9 foam to aid with compression. They apparently changed this comfort layer about 3 years ago and have had no complaints and still over a 10 year non-prorated warranty.

The question.....from a coil perspective, with completely removing the idea of foam and latex, what would be your opinion of this particular continuous coil mattress. They indicated that the can change the bottom HR to an 1" from 3/4 and can do what we would like in the comfort layer at the top with this 3" HD 1.9 MEDIUM poly.....any recommendations?

I think we are getting closer to are ideal mattress.

Thank you so very much!
Thank you,

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Last edit: by sweetdreams. Reason: needed to add more

Eco pur by dreameasy vs. locally made mattress by Waterloo Mattress for 5 yr boy 20 Mar 2013 01:16 #10

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Hi sweetdreams,

There is sometimes a fine line between too little information (which is where most people start and carries the risk of buying an unsuitable mattress that has poor quality or value) and too much information (which carries the risk of "paralysis by analysis" and giving in to the temptation to make comfort specs more exact or important than they need to be or more important than personal testing). The middle ground is always the "best" place to stay. As soon as you start feeling that information is becoming too complex or overwhelming ... then you are probably crossing the line into "too much information" and I would go by the knowledge and experience of the people you are working with.

Step 1 of the process in post #1 here is to gather some basic information about mattress materials so you are armed with some good basic information and can recognize when a retailer or manufacturer is providing you with good information or they are focused more on marketing information.

Step 2 of the process is to know what to eliminate and what to focus on. I would suggest eliminating any mainstream mattress or any mattress where you can't find the quality information you need.

Step 3 is to research retailers before you look at mattresses. They are the link between you and the manufacturers who make the mattresses and if you talk to them before you visit them then you can confirm that they will provide you with the information you need about the mattresses they sell so you don't have to track down the specs of every mattress you look at (and probably get overwhelmed and frustrated doing what they need to do). If they can't or won't provide this ... I would look elsewhere. The goal of this step is to find the people who already know what you would otherwise have to learn ... or find out.

Step 4 is where you test mattresses at the retailers that will provide you with the information you need and choose the "finalist" at each one. This is also where you would include online options if it seems to be justified.

Step 5 is to make your final choice between the "finalists".

None of these steps involves you tracking down or translating mattress specs ... this is the job of the retailer or manufacturer you are working with. Your "job" is to test mattresses in your budget range for PPP (or in any budget if you want to test higher cost and quality materials). Their job is to help you make sure that the "finalists" that you are considering use the highest possible quality materials in the price range you are looking at and providing you with the information you need to make meaningful comparisons.

Regarding the Beam Bedding foam mattress, they can also make the core any height that we would like in the firm 2.5 lbs, and we are considering a little higher since the new bed will have side rails and wouldn't want the mattress to be too flat. Instead the the 6" core with 2" soft 2.5 lbs, we can use a 7" firm core (2.5) and the medium firmness (2.5 lbs)for the 2" top layer. Would this be a better recommendation?


The thickness and softness of a layer and the mattress as a whole go hand in hand and affect each other and the overall softness and firmness of a mattress but in general terms this would work well IMO yes.

Believe me, there is nothing soft and squishy about a Beam foam bed. Even with the firm 2.5 and the 2" layer of the soft 2.5, you are still lying on someone far more solid than we have seen elsewhere. Far too firm for my liking!


I understand. The thickness and softness of the top layer will have a big effect on how the mattress feels for different people (depending on ther weight and height and body shape). with soft layers this thin ... an adult will "go through" the comfort layer and feel more of the firmness of the layers below it. If you were to make the top 2" even softer for exammple ... many people would "feel" that the mattress was even firmer because they would feel more of the firmness of the deeper layers.

Also, regarding layering on a latex topper, do you have any recommendations for brands other than Natura in our area of Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge/Guelph? I do know that Natura tends to really outprice themselves. I have felt this for a very long time.


No ... I don't know who carries toppers in the area and it may take some calling around on the phone to ask. I would also consider ordering a latex topper online if they aren't available locally at a reasonable cost once you have a general idea of the firmness you want. Some of the online options that are available in Canada are in post #21 here and several of these carry latex toppers.

Also, regarding a topper, how exactly do they stay on top of the bed? Is there anything to help secure them to the top of the mattress.


They normally just sit on top with the mattress protector and sheets over them. They don't tend to shift to any significant degree.

For readers out there, had a email back from Eco-Pur, the 4400 is discontinued and will be replaced with the 4410. FYI, I did receive further specs and was fairly disappointed: Soybased poly of 9" at 1.8 lbs with ILD of 30, 2" of natural latex in CENTRE SUPPORT, 16 oz wool and 1" poly topper. Still yet to receive density of 1" but I'm pretty sure it will be 1.8. Also, emailed back for clarification of the latex layer....was shocked to here only in CENTRE? The 5500 is being replaced with the 5510, and it has the sames specs with the addition of a full 2" latex layer. Still do not know what is in the pillow top. Also, for anyone wanting to know just how much soy is in products....these beds on 10%!


The top inch of polyfoam could well be lower density (don't forget that density and firmness are not related) but I normally suggest that around an inch of soft polyfoam is acceptable as far as not knowing the density because it's generally soft anyway and only there for hand feel and further softening won't have a significant effect on the mattress with quilting of top layers this thin. 1.8 lb polyfoam is at the bottom of what I would consider acceptable density for a support layer in anything except the lowest price ranges. ILD information is not that important when you are testing a mattress because it only has to do with comfort and support (which you will feel with testing) not quality.

The EcoPur 4400 doesn't have a pillowtop I'm guessing you mean the content of the tri zone layer. If the 2" of latex is in the center only, it would seem logical that the top and bottom third of the layer was the rest of the trizone and had 2" of polyfoam in each section so there wasn't a big hump in the middle of the mattress. Regardless though ... I would want to know the specifics before I considered it. It's the job of the person selling the mattress to find this out for their customers so it is an "easy" job rather than requiring customers to communicate directly with the factory.

Soy is not really a factor in how "green" a foam is or have much to do with how it feels or performs or how "safe" it is so I would tend to treat them all as equal to regular polyfoam. For the most part they will all be under 20% and they are more about greenwashing than anything else.

Lastly, were you able to check out www.galaxybedding.ca. Not sure if there is anything on it worth pursuing....there was one model call Bio Plush: Core: 7" 1.8 lbs soypoly, 3" foam support stabilizer (same density?), 3" natural latex, 2" supersoft foam (density missing), 2 1/2" decking (what the heck is that?), quilting 1 1/2" ultra firm foam with tack n jump quilting, 40 oz high resilient poly (density missing), pure organic pava ticking. Do you think this is worth contacting regarding desnities? Apparently made in Toronot.


If you talk with them and then list all the layers of any mattress you are considering on the forum ... I'd be happy to share my thoughts about a particular mattress. They are a wholesale manufacturer that only sells through retailers and while I've talked with them and would consider them to be well worth a call to describe a mattress you were looking for to see if they had a retailer near you that sold something similar ... I would need more information about any particular mattress to provide any meaningful feedback about any of their mattresses.

According to the specifications on their site ... the Bio Plush has the following layers (from top to bottom and assuming the order of the layers is listed top to bottom in each section) ...

1 1/2" ultra firm foam tack 'n jump quilting: This is polyfoam with density missing.

1/2" ultra dynamic foam: Foam density missing.

40 OZ high resilient poly: This would probably be 2.5 lb HR polyfoam ... which is high quality.

3" natural latex foam: This is a good quality material but there is too much questionable "polyfoam" over it.

2" supersoft foam: More polyfoam that needs density information

2 1/2 oz decking: This is the fabric layer (it's oz not inches) under the top foam eurotop.

7" 1.8 lb Ultra comfort soybean foam: This is also polyfoam and the density is on the low end of acceptable for a base layer.

3" foam support stabilizer: This is typically very firm foam which acts as a stabilizer layer at the bottom. Density information missing.

Overall there would be way too much missing information for me to consider this I personally wouldn't go to the trouble of finding out the missing information unless there was a retailer nearby where you could test this mattress as well and they confirmed they would fill in the missing information if you liked it.

From bottom up: continuous coil, 1/2" cotton felt insulator pad, 3/4" HR41 2.5 lbs FIRM polyfoam (here is where the correction is...previously stated only 1.9 lbs in HD foam), 3" HD 1.9 lbs MEDIUM poly, bamboo quilt. They do not use any soft polys. The reason they are now using the 3" is that they can no longer get the good quality cotton that was placed direclty below the comfort 1.9 foam to aid with compression. They apparently changed this comfort layer about 3 years ago and have had no complaints and still over a 10 year non-prorated warranty.


So just to make sure I have this right from top to bottom ...

Bamboo quilt: This is also a good ticking.
3" 1.9 lb this is HD polyfoam and is better quality than you would normally find in the comfort layers of mainstream mattresses. The firmness rating of "medium" is not part of its quality but part of the "comfort" of the mattress. This density polyfoam would be much less likely to soften and impress than the typical 1.5 lb polyfoam or lower that is typically used in comfort layers but it's not the same quality as latex or HR polyfoam.
3/4" 2.5 lb HR polyfoam: This is a good quality HR polyfoam and used to help create firm support.
1/2" cotton felt insulator pad: Good quality
Continuous coil. Details missing but generally found in lower cost mattresses.

These specs seem reasonable to me for a good "budget" mattress that didn't use premium foams (latex, HR polyfoam, good quality memory foam). Continuous coils are generally the lowest cost type of coil but the foam layers are better quality which is the part that would be most important to me (besides PPP of course) because its the weak link of the mattress.

The question.....from a coil perspective, with completely removing the idea of foam and latex, what would be your opinion of this particular continuous coil mattress. They indicated that the can change the bottom HR to an 1" from 3/4 and can do what we would like in the comfort layer at the top with this 3" HD 1.9 MEDIUM poly.....any recommendations?


Continuous coils provide good support because they are connected to each other but they need good quality comfort layers over them because they are usually less conforming than other higher quality coils. An innerspring is not normally the weak link of a mattress though.

As far as changing the layers in terms of how it feels and performs or layer thickness ... that is preference and would be part of your testing for PPP and not a quality issue.

Phoenix
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