TOPIC:

One more question for you oh wise one.

We've switched gears from memory foam to latex due to it's 'healthier' qualities. We are located in Utah and tried out Gary's Brooklyn Bedding latex mattresses over at R&S and while I loved it my husband found it too 'boyant'. Gary was unsure of the IlD's on the mattress so I can't determine what lower ILD it would take to make it softer and possibly less 'balloon like' as my husband put it. Am I right to assume that lower ILD talalay foams create less bounce and would maybe allow you to sink in a little more?

We also tried out some latex/polyurethane foam combo mattresses made locally more MAttress Dealzz. They did have their specs but I'm wondering if you can help me out in determining it's potential durability. I understand alot will have to do with our weight, how we sleep, our perception to comfort etc. But they have so many layers I was completely left baffled.

It's a gradient level polyfoam base (told it was for maximum comfort, and that lower levels will be less likely affected with the latex over it.)
with
2" 50 ILD poly foam
2" 32 ILD poly foam
3" 19 ILD poly foam

Then the latex layers
2"40 ILD talalay
1"32 ILD talalay
1" with 19 ILD talalay at head feet area, and 40 ILD in the hip/lumbar support are
topped by another inch of soft 19 ILD talalay

Then the comfort layer
2" gel memory foam (not sure weight, i'm sure it's not super high)
1.5 to 2" super soft polyfoam (i assume this will wear out quick)
with 1' quiltable latex sewn into cover.

alot going on. Can't tell if that's a good thing or just meant to confuse the heck out of the consumer. Cause I sure am!

Love the feel of it though for sure. But keep going back to the simple idea of a Pure Latex Bliss style latex mattress.

Any thoughts on a mattress like this?

THanks, Rachel[/strike][/strike][/strike]

Hi Rachierad,

I think I missed one of your earlier questions ...

Have you happened to have heard of Mattress Dealzz out of Utah? They make their own line of mattresses and do offer one with a gel-memory foam topper, latex support over high density poly foam.

No ... I'm not familiar with them but from their website it appears that they have a house brand which they design (or at least contribute to the design) but don't actually manufacture themselves.

Am I right to assume that lower ILD talalay foams create less bounce and would maybe allow you to sink in a little more?

In general terms yes although all the layers and the cover and quilting will play a role in this as well.

Any thoughts on a mattress like this?

Yes ... my thoughts are that it's a very strange layering. It's almost like having 2 mattresses stacked on top of each other. The polyfoam layering on the bottom could be a mattress by itself and the latex and memory foam above that could be a mattress by itself as well. When you are testing mattresses in person ... the "comfort specs" (like ILD) aren't important because your body will tell you more about the pressure relief and alignment on the mattress than knowing the ILD's of the layers. I would certainly want to know the density of all the polyfoam and memory foam layers though because this tells you about their quality. With latex you need to know the type and blend of the latex although in this case you know the type (Talalay) and from the ILD's it's also clear that it's blended (which is a good quality material).

There are some fairly thick layers of soft material on top of this mattress (and possibly lower density as well) and then there is even more soft layers underneath this which to me seems like a risky construction in terms of alignment (in spite of the center zoning) ... and possibly durability as well. While your body weight and sleeping positions would play a role here... I'm not so sure I would trust this type of construction and I would be very cautious about the suitability of this mattress ... especially if you were a heavier weight or a back or stomach sleeper.

At the very least I would want to know the "quality specs" of the mattress layers and make sure that you did some very careful and objective testing ... especially when it comes to your alignment in all your sleeping positions.

Phoenix

Thanks so much for your quick reply. I wish you posted an address so people can send you things like a well deserved fruit basket.

I think I'm confused on the difference on ILD versus the density. I specifically asked them for weight/density of layers and they told me the ILDS. I assumed it was basically the same. When I asked for the info in pounds they weren't sure. I'll see if the owner would provide that info via email.

We have narrowed it down to this layer cake mattress and the Pure Latex Bliss Vitality (Latex hybrid fast response). Both similarly priced. Not sure which is better quality/value.

Plushness Rating: 8
Mattress Design:
11" Mattress Height
4" Pressure Relief Layer: Talalay Latex
7" Support Core: Bonded Foam/Latex


I don't understand why bed salesmen know basically nothing. I can do their job better simply from reading this site. The store we visited "actionwood" near SLC Utah didn't know much about this bed. Didn't know the weight, guessed the ILD of top layer was 19 and promised it wouldn't soften. He did say it was 100% natural latex and not blended latex, but I think I've read on here that it is blended latex.

Enough of my pompous show of superiority over this nice man. Questions if you have time to answer:
1: youve said there are some better value beds in this price range $1300. Would this be like Rocky Mountain mattress? I just am hesitant to get something online and it not feel similar. And I can't seem to find alternative options with the poly/latex blend support foam. I don't know if you would know of one similar? I may love a Brooklyn Bed with a similar softness in the top latex. I guess I just need to somehow get ahold of pure bliss and see if they'll divulge that info? If I found out weight or ILD of the Vitality foam would it be pretty easy to match up with a similar online mattress?
(found out)
4inch latex has 2 layers one 15 ILD one 24 ILD...they dont know how thick each is)
base foam is 2.3 lbs mixed 90%poly/10%latex. Apparently the materials are shredded and bonded together? not all melted/swirled together like i thought.

2:about that blend foam. I think that additives will decrease the durability of the latex? So is this that situation? Is this blend less durable than purely latex? Is it stronger than HR poly foam? I want something durable. And would pass on this if this blend has shown to be a lot less durable. I'd rather get 2.5 lb HR support foam. Then of course it would feel different. Ughh.

3:do you have an opinion on if this Simpler latex design would be more contouring/supportive than the layer cake?

4:Pure latex bliss isn't on your preferred list. Any reason why you'd suggest avoiding them? Are they top quality but just overpriced?

5: I ran into a gentlemen at a mattress store that overheard me hounding the salesman with questions. He said obviously ive been reading up on the Mattress Underground like him. Ha. We laughed both agreed that as much as we love all this info we've learned, it sure has made bed buying a whole hellofalot harder! We both were set/ happy not knowing better to buy mattresses from the big box store until you changed the course. Then the sales guy said there's a point where knowing too much information no longer helps. "are you trying to build a mattress or sleep on one" he said as he tried to sell us on the next hot thing: sertas gel infused memory foam. Thanks again for teaching how to "build a mattress".

Hi Rachierad,

I think I'm confused on the difference on ILD versus the density. I specifically asked them for weight/density of layers and they told me the ILDS. I assumed it was basically the same. When I asked for the info in pounds they weren't sure. I'll see if the owner would provide that info via email.

With polyfoam and memory foam ... ILD is a measure of the softness and firmness of the material and is a "comfort spec" and has nothing to do with quality. Density is a measure of the weight of the material per cubic foot and is the most important indicator of the quality and durability of the material. Polyfoam ranges from under 1 lb to over 3 lbs and memory foam usually ranges from about 2.5 lbs (sometimes even lower) up to about 8 lbs. Any density of polyfoam can have a wide range of firmness levels and density and firmness are not really connected to each other. ILD in memory foam is not really meaningful because it varies with temperature and humidity and time (just like if you slap honey it will feel firmer than if you press your hand into it slowly) so the other qualities of memory foam (temperature response, breathability, motion restriction, speed of response and others) are more important although lower density memory foam usually feels softer and more responsive than higher density memory foam because it takes less time to respond and soften with heat.

Plushness Rating: 8
Mattress Design:
11" Mattress Height
4" Pressure Relief Layer: Talalay Latex
7" Support Core: Bonded Foam/Latex

These are all good quality materials and PLB is typically "better than average" value ... especially compared to mainstream manufacturers .. but they are often not in the same "value range" as some smaller independent manufacturers. Of course this depends on the prices that are being charged and on the other benefits and services that are part of the mattress purchase. Make sure you always make "mattress only" comparisons that don't include any other components such as a foundation when you are making comparisons.

I don't understand why bed salesmen know basically nothing. I can do their job better simply from reading this site. The store we visited "actionwood" near SLC Utah didn't know much about this bed. Didn't know the weight, guessed the ILD of top layer was 19 and promised it wouldn't soften. He did say it was 100% natural latex and not blended latex, but I think I've read on here that it is blended latex.

Unfortunately ... most of the people that spend a couple of hours on this site know more "real" information than the majority of people who actually sell mattresses. I wish it wasn't true as well which is why I value the better retailers and manufacturers so highly.

The top 2" which is Active Fusion fast response Talalay is either 15 or 21 ILD
The next 2" I don't know but I would guess at 24 based on their plushness rating.
I don't know the ILD of their core layer

The latex is blended Talalay (which they call "natural") not 100% natural Talalay (which they call "all natural")

1: youve said there are some better value beds in this price range $1300. Would this be like Rocky Mountain mattress? I just am hesitant to get something online and it not feel similar. And I can't seem to find alternative options with the poly/latex blend support foam. I don't know if you would know of one similar? I may love a Brooklyn Bed with a similar softness in the top latex. I guess I just need to somehow get ahold of pure bliss and see if they'll divulge that info? If I found out weight or ILD of the Vitality foam would it be pretty easy to match up with a similar online mattress?

Yes ... the list of members that sell online is in post #21 here and they are certainly better value although "value" can be measured in many different ways and is not just about price alone although of course it's an important part..

There are only 3 ways to match another mattress and it's very difficult if there are major differences in design, materials, covers, layer thicknesses, and ILD's all of which can have a major effect on the feel and performance of a mattress. You can read more about trying to "match" another mattress in post #2 here . I generally would suggest that you measure all mattresses you test against a common set of objective and subjective standards and your own personal value equation (see post #46 here ) rather than one to another unless all the layers and components are very similar.

2:about that blend foam. I think that additives will decrease the durability of the latex? So is this that situation? Is this blend less durable than purely latex? Is it stronger than HR poly foam? I want something durable. And would pass on this if this blend has shown to be a lot less durable. I'd rather get 2.5 lb HR support foam. Then of course it would feel different. Ughh.

You can read more about the different types of latex in this article and in post #6 here. but in general ... blended Talalay is more durable than 100% natural Talalay expecially in lower ILD's. With Dunlop it's the other way around. All of them are more durable than polyfoam (especially in the densities you will usually find). I would also keep in mind that the upper layers are the "weak link" of a mattress and the deeper layers are less subject to stress and compression and are not the layers that tend to break down or soften first.

.3:do you have an opinion on if this Simpler latex design would be more contouring/supportive than the layer cake?

Alignment is the goal in a mattress and support is just the means to get there. Your body and personal testing is the only meaningful way to answer this because I can't see your alignment on the mattress.

4:Pure latex bliss isn't on your preferred list. Any reason why you'd suggest avoiding them? Are they top quality but just overpriced?

There are over 500 manufacturers in the country and about 21 of them are members here. They are certainly among the best quality and value in the country ... each in their own way ... but there are many others that are great quality and value as well all across the country. The way to make meaningful comparisons is always to make sure you first know all the quality specs of all the layers in the mattress so you can make meaningful "apples to apples" comparisons regardless of brand or manufacturer.

5: I ran into a gentlemen at a mattress store that overheard me hounding the salesman with questions. He said obviously ive been reading up on the Mattress Underground like him. Ha. We laughed both agreed that as much as we love all this info we've learned, it sure has made bed buying a whole hellofalot harder! We both were set/ happy not knowing better to buy mattresses from the big box store until you changed the course. Then the sales guy said there's a point where knowing too much information no longer helps. "are you trying to build a mattress or sleep on one" he said as he tried to sell us on the next hot thing: sertas gel infused memory foam. Thanks again for teaching how to "build a mattress".

Yes ... being an "educated consumer" is not always easy ... until you connect with "experts" that have the knowledge and experience that can help you make the best decisions. In effect you are doing what a good salesperson should be doing. This is why doing research into the retailers and manufacturers in your area comes before testing mattresses because who you work with can be just as important as what you buy.

I also agree that there is a time when too much information does more harm than good.

The goal is always to research and connect with manufacturers and retailers that are experts and "professionals" so you don't have to learn what they already know.

I'm assuming you are in SLC? Have you have talked on the phone and or visited any of the other options on the SLC list here ?

I realized as well that I didn't answer your previous question about Essentia and I would read this thread and this thread with more information and some discussions with them on the forum before considering them.

I also realized that I haven't linked the most important post on the forum which is post #1 here which includes all the basic information you need and the steps to take one at a time just in case you haven't read it.

Phoenix

2:about that blend foam. I think that additives will decrease the durability of the latex? So is this that situation? Is this blend less durable than purely latex? Is it stronger than HR poly foam? I want something durable. And would pass on this if this blend has shown to be a lot less durable. I'd rather get 2.5 lb HR support foam. Then of course it would feel different. Ughh.


Though I liked the asnwer, I realize i wasn't very good at asking the right question! I meant to ask about the blended poly/latex foam support on the PLB Vitality. It's 90% Polyurethane foam and 10% latex. Combined its valued at 2.3 lbs. Apparently it's all shredded, compressed and glued together. I am wondering if this crazy combo is more durable than a straight slab of high density polyurethane foam? I assume this is no way comparable to a straight latex support foam. But if it's not even as durable as regular plain unshredded HD polyurethane foam then I would certainly pass on this. I just don't think I've heard of a foam that's been shredded and glued like this. ugh.

And is this Active Fusion Latex regular latex? Or has something been added to it. They weren't able to provide me with much info on that.

You mentioned the top ILD on the PLB Vitality as being 21, but a lady I spoke with 'thinks' it is 15. But like you mentioned that number may not matter as long as it's supportive/comfortable. I think that's my last question.........for NOW! But seriously. We are buying a bed tomorrow. My husband is set. I just a few more kinks to iron out in my mind. So you may be free of me soon! unnnntill we start buying the kids mattresses.

-rach

Hi Rachierad,

Though I liked the asnwer, I realize i wasn't very good at asking the right question! I meant to ask about the blended poly/latex foam support on the PLB Vitality. It's 90% Polyurethane foam and 10% latex. Combined its valued at 2.3 lbs. Apparently it's all shredded, compressed and glued together. I am wondering if this crazy combo is more durable than a straight slab of high density polyurethane foam? I assume this is no way comparable to a straight latex support foam. But if it's not even as durable as regular plain unshredded HD polyurethane foam then I would certainly pass on this. I just don't think I've heard of a foam that's been shredded and glued like this. ugh.

This is a type of rebond foam which uses scrap material that is bonded together with a polyurethane resin binder. Types of rebond are used in carpet underlay for example and are typically a very resilient and durable material. Because it is used in the base layer (which is not normally the weak link of a mattress) and because rebond is a durable material ... it wouldn't be a weak link in the mattress.

And is this Active Fusion Latex regular latex? Or has something been added to it. They weren't able to provide me with much info on that.

Active Fusion is their name for Talalay GL made by Latex International. It comes in a fast and slow response version. the fast response version is just like regular blended Talalay except it has phase change gel microcapsules added to it to help with temperature regulation.

You mentioned the top ILD on the PLB Vitality as being 21, but a lady I spoke with 'thinks' it is 15. But like you mentioned that number may not matter as long as it's supportive/comfortable.

As you mentioned the numbers don't matter as much as your actual experience on the mattress but I did confirm that the Vitality uses a 2" layer of 15 ILD Active Fusion fast response over 2" layer of 24 ILD blended Talalay over a 7" bonded polyfoam/latex support core.

Phoenix

So we switched gears from the Pure Latex Bliss Vitality we went in to buy. It's suppppppper soft and very comfortable but was worried it would soften up a little mroe and be too soft. My hips were already sinking a little low I thought. (5'6 140 lbs) The salesman then sold us on a mattress he guaranteed wouldn't get too soft, the PLB Pamper. It's hard as a rock. We added the Active Fusion 3" Fast Response latex topper and it felt plush but still firm. I am a sucker for a good deal and he was offering the mattress and the topper for $1200. (older model Pamper floor model without the Active Fusion in the top layer) I kept thinking how awesome to get a full latex mattress for less than the poly/latex blend mattress. Now I'm a little worried.

Questions ( I lied when I said I would have no more questions)
1. We really looooved the softness of the Vitality. If this combo ends up being too hard after sleeping on it a while, any suggestions to soften it up? Low ILD poly foam between bed and topper? Another Latex topper?

2. We switched gears from memory foam to latex because I started to get worried about the unfounded safety concerns with memory foam. I thought Latex would be a great all natural choice. I didn't think to wonder until NOW what was blended with latex to make Talatech 'natural' latex. I've read it's 30% latex and 70% styrene-butadiene rubber. I know you aren't a chemist and i'm on the verge of "too much information is a bad thing" threshold, but would you consider this blended latex a 'safe' choice. I know safe means different things to different people so it's hard to say, but would you think that this blended latex is at least SAFER than memory foam? Would you think it safer for our toddler to sleep on?

3. We thought about ordering the Slow Response Active Fusion topper since we like the feel of memory foam, but Would you think that this would be similar to regular Memory Foam in terms of it's 'ingredients"?

4. I haven't heard back from PLB customer service, so maybe you would know this. Is their Active Fusion/Talalay GL line also Oeko-Tex standard 100 certified? I can't read anything that confirms this. I'm half convinced that certification just goes to the company willing to enough money for it (BBB style) but I would rather believe that this is some Guarantee that even though the latex isn't ALL NATURAL, and is blended with some funky SBR that it is at least labeled as being somewhat safe.

I'll for sure keep an update on our satisfaction with the mattress in case it helps out anyone else in the future!

Thanks for all your help. I would nevvvvvvvver never have purchased this without you! And really, it's going to be better than the Sealy Optimum we originally were ready to buy a month ago. And cheaper too!

ALSOO

we decided not to get the mattress water proof cover from them because they only offered one that fit up to a 22" mattress depth. I was certain it would be too blousy and annoying. I am not too concerned about needing to use the warranty on the Pamper because I doubt it will get a 3/4 inch depression with the topper on it. I would like protection for the topper because I could see it getting stains on it and worry that moisture from sweat/spills could lead to mold or something. How does latex react to moisture?

But I worry that a mattress cover will make the topper less plush. Would that be the case to some degree? Either way, do you know of any covers for lower profile 9" mattresses or ones just for mattress toppers?

-No clue how you have time to answer all of these questions. Let me know when you're hiring for an answering assistant. My mattress obsession has led me to become a qualified candidate

Hi Rachierad,

1. We really looooved the softness of the Vitality. If this combo ends up being too hard after sleeping on it a while, any suggestions to soften it up? Low ILD poly foam between bed and topper? Another Latex topper?

There are many potential solutions to softening a mattress but I wouldn't recommend starting in this direction. If you are sensitive to changes in a mattress than deciding on a topper much less a mattress/topper/topper combination can be just as complex as buying a mattress. I would strongly encourage you to buy the specific combination that you are confident about in the first place. For some people ... experimenting with toppers can become an expensive and frustrating exercise (they often can't be returned if you choose the wrong one). My general suggestion when you are making a local purchase is to buy a mattress as if you only had one chance to get it right and make it as close to your needs and preferences as you possibly can so that if you do need to make any "fine tuning" changes after the purchase they can be as small as possible and used as a backup only if necessary ... not as a main reason to make a purchase. This will help keep you focused on good objective testing in the store rather than trying to figure out what is possible if something happens "in theory" which will only open the floodgates to information overload. Your lighter weight means using a very low ILD topper has better odds of success but I would always make sure that your testing confirms it in terms of PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences) to the greatest degree possible.

2. We switched gears from memory foam to latex because I started to get worried about the unfounded safety concerns with memory foam. I thought Latex would be a great all natural choice. I didn't think to wonder until NOW what was blended with latex to make Talatech 'natural' latex. I've read it's 30% latex and 70% styrene-butadiene rubber. I know you aren't a chemist and i'm on the verge of "too much information is a bad thing" threshold, but would you consider this blended latex a 'safe' choice. I know safe means different things to different people so it's hard to say, but would you think that this blended latex is at least SAFER than memory foam? Would you think it safer for our toddler to sleep on?

Blended Talalay is tested in the same way as 100% natural Talalay ( OekoTex standard 100 class 1 "safe for babies" ) and for the vast majority of people there are no safety or sensitivity issues with latex at all. Even people who have MCS (multiple chemical sensitivity) tend to be fine with it. OekoTex is a legitimate testing protocol, is respected around the world, and you can see the actual testing protocols they use here . The short answer is that yes I would consider any latex that had a good testing certification attached to it (OekoTex, Eco-Institut etc) as a very "safe" choice ... especialy for those that are very sensitive to chemicals and offgassing and may not do well even with materials like polyfoam or memory foam that have been CertiPur certified.

3. We thought about ordering the Slow Response Active Fusion topper since we like the feel of memory foam, but Would you think that this would be similar to regular Memory Foam in terms of it's 'ingredients"?

The actual formulation of slow response latex that various companies offer that turns a fast response material into a slow response material isn't disclosed by any of them. The slow response latex though is still primarily latex not polyurethane like memory foam so it a completely different type of "slow response" foam than memory foam.

4. I haven't heard back from PLB customer service, so maybe you would know this. Is their Active Fusion/Talalay GL line also Oeko-Tex standard 100 certified? I can't read anything that confirms this. I'm half convinced that certification just goes to the company willing to enough money for it (BBB style) but I would rather believe that this is some Guarantee that even though the latex isn't ALL NATURAL, and is blended with some funky SBR that it is at least labeled as being somewhat safe.

The Latex International site here is clear that all of their latex products are Oeko-Tex certified.

How does latex react to moisture?

It's fine and regular moisture won't affect it and it's also very breathable so moisture can dissipate faster than most other bedding foams. They actually saturate the latex with water and squeeze it out to wash it after it's manufactured.

But I worry that a mattress cover will make the topper less plush. Would that be the case to some degree? Either way, do you know of any covers for lower profile 9" mattresses or ones just for mattress toppers?

A mattress protector is always a good idea for any mattress and would go over the topper and then tuck under the mattress. There are different types available depending on your preference and the tradeoffs that are most important to you. You can read more about them in post #89 here . The most popular choice is usually the thin membrane type which generally have little effect on the mattress although they are not as breathable and temperature regulating as the other two.

-No clue how you have time to answer all of these questions. Let me know when you're hiring for an answering assistant. My mattress obsession has led me to become a qualified candidate

That's funny. I think that there are a lot of forum members that have bought a mattress using some of the information here that would be much better qualified than many of the people who actually sell mattresses!

I would nevvvvvvvver never have purchased this without you! And really, it's going to be better than the Sealy Optimum we originally were ready to buy a month ago. And cheaper too!

You are certainly right that it is both better quality and value than the Optimum

Phoenix

Alright, we are back in the mattress market. Well that surely was a close one i think. It seemed to be a common theme of people getting the PLB Pamper with topper and later sinking through the soft topper and bottoming out on the extra firm 40ild Pamper. That and the topper is slightly smaller than the mattress steered us in a different direction. We are super close to finalization! After trying some more latex beds we are fairly certain we like the plushy (this preference is probably why we have back pains in the morning....) feel of 19 ild over 24/28. Super soft, which has me a little worried about support but that's why we're now leaning towards Arizona Mattress companies adjustable latex mattress, so if worst case scenario we can exchange for a firmer support layer.

My question is that their prices seem too good to be true. I've also looked at Mygreenmattress.com and see that their mattresses with comparable 9inch latex and an organic wool cover is almost $1000 more. Arizonas even has the added value of being able to exchange individual layers if needs be. They both are on your list for having good quality and value, but Arizonas seems to have way more value. Am I missing something that maybe mygreenmattress offers? Or something that maybe Arizona mattress doesn't?

I still want to call sleepez to hear the benefit of having three different layers with different ILDs. Their prices seem compatible with Arizona. Any input on three layers over 2? I imagine it may be a good idea to have a firmer bottom layer to give more support?

The one thing I'm giving up( but gaining a natural chemical free fire barrier) is the thin cover of the pure latex bliss. I really enjoyed the direct contact of the latex. Both arizona and sleepez and green mattress over quilted wool/cotton covers. Does this significantly change/lessen the contouring properties of latex?
I'm a little worried about Arizonas being a 1.5 inches and it getting slight impressions. Do you know if wool has that tendency?
Sleep Ez appears to have a thinner over. Obviously Ill ask them this question as well.

With the benefit of the adjustable layers, have you heard of any issues with the foams slightly shifting and overhanging due to not being glued? My husbands really worried about that.

Also I think it's wondeful to have the option to switch layers if absolutely necessary but that brings up the worry that these returned layers are then being used to make other mattresses. Any thoughts on this? Seems a touchy area. I understand tht when latex is made its rinsed so maybe it's possible to "wash" these returned layers and reuse them? I just don't think I want bed bugs haha.

I can't believe I've actually convinced my serta loving hubs to order a mattress online. Thanks a million again. We are in the final stretch and starting to get less stressed and finally excited!

Hopefully within the month I'll actually be sleeping rather than staying up late researching mattresses and avoiding that lump called a bed in there.