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Had a King Koil, looking to purchase Ultimate Dreams on Amazon . . . 01 Dec 2012 00:05 #1

Hi,
I had a King Koil Latex, pretty sure it was the Aruba model.
I wasn't totally happy with it a couple years later. It seemed to get the dreaded saggy body impression & I can't find the layrering of the materials they used so I can avoid that. I'm wondering now after reading a lot on your site if it was latex bottom with a regular foam top (?)
I'm thinking of getting the Ultimate dreams from Amazon.
I have three questions.
1) I know I like a really soft deep top (side sleeper) with firm below, which I noticed is explained here, thank you for that (forgotten the term already). Do you know if this mattress is "built" that way? Or should I look elsewhere?
2) Wondering if I should go with the 10, the softest or an 8 & put a topper on it (?). I had a bed as a teen that I *loved* - it was torn pieces of latex, like the pillows they have : )
3) I had the previous mattress made into an "Olympic Queen" size which is 66"X80" (6" wider) & loved the extra room it
provided. Does Ultimate dreams offer the 5% discount because I'm sure the extra width will be an extra charge.
Thank you kindly, Carole

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Last edit: by carole.

Re: Had a King Koil, looking to purchase Ultimate Dreams on Amazon . . . 01 Dec 2012 03:25 #2

Hi carole,

If memory serves me right ... the Aruba had a polyfoam core with some very soft thick latex layers on top and a dacron fiber layer. You can see the results of my unsuccessful attempt to find out the layering information in post #42 here .

1) I know I like a really soft deep top (side sleeper) with firm below, which I noticed is explained here, thank you for that (forgotten the term already). Do you know if this mattress is "built" that way? Or should I look elsewhere?


The term is what I call a "differential" construction because of the difference between the softness of the comfort layers and the firmness of the support layers. In the case of the Ultimate Dreams... it has a firmer polyfoam support layer but you can choose the top layer to be any firmness level you want from 19 ILD and higher. This 3" layer along with the 1.5" quilting would provide a fairly "deep" (4.5") and soft comfort layer. If you go too much thicker or softer (like with the Aruba) you would once again be risking ending up out of alignment after a shorter period of time no matter what the material you were using (depending again on your body type and sleeping positions). Even latex softens over time (just not as quickly as lower quality materials) and if the comfort layers are too thick and soft then even a smaller amount of softening can put you "over the edge" of what you need for comfort and/or support. It may also help somewhat to rotate your mattress end for end on a fairly regular basis (say once a season).

2) Wondering if I should go with the 10, the softest or an 8 & put a topper on it (?). I had a bed as a teen that I *loved* - it was torn pieces of latex, like the pillows they have : )


They are very good at helping their customers make the most appropriate choices and of course they would know more about which of the options they offer may be most suitable for your needs and preferences based on the average needs and preferences of others with a similar height and weight, body type, sleeping positions, and preferences. You will need to provide them with all this information of course to help them help you better and information about the types of mattresses you have liked in the past and any results of any local testing you have done may also help them help you more effectively. The best suggestions always come from the manufacturers themselves who know the most about all the different materials and components they offer and how they interact with different types of people.

There are some general layering suggestions in the overviews in the mattresses section of the site and in some of the more detailed pages that are in each section about different body types , different sleeping positions , and how different types of construction (which it seems you've read) will affect both of these but again these are more "generic" suggestions rather than specific to any individual because there are too many variables to use a "formula" to choose your ideal mattress outside of using "averages". For more specific suggestions it's always best to have a more detailed conversation and work with a manufacturer or merchant directly.

2) Wondering if I should go with the 10, the softest or an 8 & put a topper on it (?). I had a bed as a teen that I *loved* - it was torn pieces of latex, like the pillows they have : )


If after a conversation with Chuck you are still undecided between two options ... I would go with the firmer of your choices because it's much easier to soften up a mattress that is too firm than firm up a mattress that is too soft. I wouldn't "design in" a topper because hopefully you won't need one and I would keep things as simple as possible but it's always an option if you need to do some fine tuning as long as the choice you made isn't too soft for your body type and sleeping positions.

3) I had the previous mattress made into an "Olympic Queen" size which is 66"X80" (6" wider) & loved the extra room it provided. Does Ultimate dreams offer the 5% discount because I'm sure the extra width will be an extra charge.


They offer the members of the forum here a "bonus" for their Amazon site which is their shredded latex pillow and a 5% discount fot the mattresses on their Brooklyn Bedding site. I've never asked them if they could make sizes that are different from their standard sizing and if you do it would be great if you posted here to let us know what they said. It would be great if they did for those who wanted it and my guess (and this is only a guess) is that if they offered this that they would probably charge you for the next size up and then cut it down to size.

EDIT: To receive the forum discount on their Brooklyn Bedding line make sure you either call, email, or use their chat to get the discount information before your purchase.

I'm looking forward to hearing about what you end up with :)

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: Had a King Koil, looking to purchase Ultimate Dreams on Amazon . . . 01 Dec 2012 19:02 #3

Wow! Thanks, I wasn't expecting a reply so fast.
All the info you've provided is excellent.
Very interesting how (in post #42) that the company wouldn't help the person trying to find a similar mattress to one the same company made. Makes no sense. I had tried to find the materials list as well, no luck.
I think you hit the nail on the head - the top of the Aruba was too thick, didn't think that could ever be possible but I didn't feel the support after awhile, even with rotating it often. I now realize the support factor is just as important as the soft springy factor.
I will speak to the owner at Ultimate Dreams to give detailed info & see what he suggests. Just so you know I am primarily a side sleeper, 140 to 150 lbs. I am disabled & have CRPS (Complex Regional Pain Syndrome) in my lower left leg & foot. Since I am in so much pain I really appreciate a good bed to fall into at the end of the day. With CRPS anything that touches the affected area can cause extreme pain, having a soft bed under it is helpful, sometimes just a sheet on my foot causes pain so any little thing that helps is a plus.
When I was shopping for my last bed I tried telling them that I liked the soft top & firm underneath & they always looked at me like I had two heads. I realized they didn't know much & just did it on my own.
I will keep in mind your suggestion of being able to make it softer but making it firmer is not as easy a feat.
I am going to ask about the Olympic Queen size & will let you know what they say (in a future post).
I really appreciate all of your input & the fact that you made this site. I'm sure it is helping many people & is long over due. I will be sure to spread the word about this.
I will be re-reading the things you've highlighted & more.
Thank you kindly, Carole

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Re: Had a King Koil, looking to purchase Ultimate Dreams on Amazon . . . 01 Dec 2012 23:00 #4

Hi carole,

Very interesting how (in post #42) that the company wouldn't help the person trying to find a similar mattress to one the same company made. Makes no sense. I had tried to find the materials list as well, no luck.


Unfortunately, most of the larger manufacturers have little interest in providing good information about the contents or layering of their mattresses ... either old models or new models. It would make meaningful comparison shopping based on "apples to apples" comparisons with other mattresses with similar materials far too easy, the relative "value" of the mattresses they produce would become very clear, and the "marketing stories" that they rely on would become much less effective.

I'm looking forward to hearing about your conversation with Chuck ... and hopefully your choice is exactly what you need and matches your rather difficult circumstances.

As in so many things ... the key is always in finding the right balance ... in this case between the softness and thickness of your comfort layers and the firmness of the support layers below them. The comfort layers need to be soft and thick enough to "allow" you to sink in enough for good pressure relief while the comfort layers also need to be thin enough so that the heavier parts of your body (like the hips/pelvis) are can be "stopped" by the firmer support layers before they sink down too far to provide neutral spinal alignment.

Just in case you didn't see this ... they also have a Eurotop mattress where the comfort layer can be exchanged so if for any reason your choice doesn't turn out quite right you can exchange it for a low cost for a different firmness level. Some of its benefits and the details of how the exchange works are in post #2 here .

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: Had a King Koil, looking to purchase Ultimate Dreams on Amazon . . . 01 Dec 2012 23:21 #5

Thank you!
The Eurotop version seems ideal for me.
I did call, seems they were closed, will try again monday.
I am going to ask another question as well - I am wondering if they can make the bottom the same as the top, so it can be flipped. Another reason though would be to get each side different levels of softness so they can be flipped according to how i feel :)

I am wondering though if (since you know so very much about mattresses) if I should consider memory foam (tempurpedic)?
I was just looking at the Dynasty & Grand (by Dynasty) on Amazon & they have good reviews.
My mother has a Tempurpedic but hers is too firm for me, they've got the firmest.
Thank you again, Carole

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Re: Had a King Koil, looking to purchase Ultimate Dreams on Amazon . . . 02 Dec 2012 03:03 #6

Hi carole,

I am going to ask another question as well - I am wondering if they can make the bottom the same as the top, so it can be flipped. Another reason though would be to get each side different levels of softness so they can be flipped according to how i feel


This would be a completely different mattress design that they don't offer on their site but it never hurts to ask.

The Eurotop does have the option of having different firmness levels on each side and another option would be to have a topper that could be added or removed according to your needs. You could for example add a softer topper for those times when your pressure relief needs are more extreme.

I am wondering though if (since you know so very much about mattresses) if I should consider memory foam (tempurpedic)?


Memory foam and latex are very different materials and the choice between them is really a matter of personal preference. Assuming you were to choose the best type of layering in the comfort layers of each type of material ... their pressure relieving properties are very comparable but the feel and performance of each is very different. You can read more about the pros and cons of memory foam here and the pros and cons of latex here .

If you were to choose a memory foam mattress ... it is important to make sure that the quality of the memory foam is good (low quality/density memory foam is not a very durable material). Tempurpedic is good quality but poor value compared to many other memory foam mattresses that use similar quality materials. You can see some mattress shopping guidelines here and the first of these is to avoid the major brands which are generally much worse value than smaller independent or local manufacturers.

Memory foam can also be very tricky and I would be very hesitant to buy a mattress that had 7.5" of memory foam which I would consider to be a very risky construction. With any mattress ... but especially with memory foam ... the thickness and softness of the comfort layers and how suitable they are for your comfort and support needs and preferences are very important and the knowledge, experience, and guidance of the manufacturer or merchant you buy from ... especially online ... is one of the most important parts of a mattress purchase.

Your own personal testing on the two different materials will tell you which you prefer and can also give you some guidelines about the specific types and layering of each that may be most suitable for you.

I would also be careful using reviews as part of a decision about the type of mattress that may be best for you. Each person is unique in their own personal needs and preferences. You can see more of my thoughts about the value of mattress reviews in post #4 here .

Knowing the details of the materials in your mattress and your own personal testing along with the knowledge, experience, and guidance of the merchant you are buying from can be a much more effective way to choose the best quality/value and the most suitable mattress for you than the reviews of other people that don't take all the many differences and variables that may be unique to you into account.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
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Re: Had a King Koil, looking to purchase Ultimate Dreams on Amazon . . . 02 Dec 2012 03:52 #7

Again, thank you Pheonix,
You certainly have a lot of information.
I am leaning towards my original decision of latex. To me it has "spring" & a "gushy" factor to it that I (& my foot/leg) like.
Also, knowing they can make each side of the eurotop that way is an excellent option.
I will be re-reading more here as memory is affected from the CRPS.
I will call on monday and speak with Chuck about all my concerns & see what his thoughts are.
I wish I could afford all latex, for comfort & longevity purposes.
I thank you kindly, Carole

Edit to add - Thanks for the response about reviews. Many good points.

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Last edit: by carole.
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