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Heatlh Care mattress? Email exchange 18 Nov 2012 11:13 #1

  • Pooswa
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A Heath Care memory foam was at a local homemade furniture store a place that normally don't sell mattress for a really good price... Decided to email them to find out info...below is the emails start at bottom to read from first to last...
Hi Max,

I understand your concern. We have a 10 year non prorated warranty. So hopefully that gives you some piece of mind. I know finding the right bed is a tough decision.

Foam quality, not density, is the primary factor in how well a bed performs, and we produce some of the best foam in the world. Since foam is sold by weight (or density), many foam companies put clay, sand, chalk, and other things in the foam to make it weigh more which inflates the density... but causes the foam to break down very quickly. After going to battle spec per spec with these sub par foam mattress manufacturers, we made a decision to eliminate density from the discussion. It just wasn't productive.

We make hundreds of different beds, some for some of the top brands in the industry. We don't sell to the general public, but I responded to your request out of courtesy.

We just make a quality bed for a value. You won't find a better mattress for comparable money. I hope that helps you in your search.

Best of luck! Everybody should be able to afford a good night's sleep!

Best regards,

Chris

On Nov 17, 2012, at 4:14 PM, Max <[email protected]> wrote:

Yes how long my bed last is a very big factor in me spending over a $1000 .. So again I ask what is the density of the foam you use in the 3 models you have on on your website also where I saw your mattress they said that they have a gel one that you make also..if you can give me the specifics on these 4 you can maybe make some money if not there is no chance of it

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 17, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Christopher Dockter <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Max,

Foam and foam densities vary depending on model properties, etc. Density really doesn't mean much despite what mattress sales people will tell you. Density is only useful when comparing foams of the exact same formulation. So in other words density is relative only in terms of what recipe is used when making the foam. Higher density foams of the same formulation will be more durable and last longer, however, they will also have different properties and feel. So higher density is not always better, unless you only care about one aspect of a bed... how long it will last. So there's a lot of factors that determine what densities and formulations are used under what circumstances.

Unfortunately, it is not useful to compare densities from different formulations and even more so from different foam manufacturers. It would be like comparing my grandmother's pumpkin pie to your grandmother's. Both are pumpkin pie, both are made of pumpkin, both may be even the same density, but the ingredients are different, the type of pumpkin may be different; so the texture, flavor, and taste may be very different. Hope that analogy makes sense.

Best regards,

Chris


On Nov 17, 2012, at 2:49 PM, Max <[email protected]> wrote:

Can you please tell me the density of the foam in all layers of your matresses

Thanks
Max Drobish

Sent from my iPad


He says they don't sell to the general public ,which I understand but I still think he should be able to tell me what materials they use... Also he says that they make lots of different models for different companies which may be true but on thier website they have 3 different models and at the store they say this is the manufacture and they are selling it as the "health care " brand so again I think they should be able to disclose what is in there mattress...

I just thought people will find this funny..
Help me come up with good reply!

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Last edit: by Pooswa.

Re: Heatlh Care mattress? Email exchange 18 Nov 2012 18:05 #2

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Hi Pooswa,

Health Care Foam* is a CertiPur certified Chinese supplier of polyfoam, memory foam, and gel foam. They make good quality foam IMO and much of what they are saying is correct ... but there's also more to the story.
ADMIN NOTE: *Removed 404 link|Archived Footprint: certipur.us/pages/for-industry/find-a-foam-supplier/hk-foam/

The actual quality of polyfoam or memory foam is based on what is called the polymer density (or unfilled density) as they mention and there are many Chinese suppliers that do exactly what they are suggesting (add fillers) which give their foams a "false density" and make it look better than it is. This is one of the reasons that it's important to make sure that you are comparing apples to apples when you are comparing different materials.

They also make the foam for BedBoss, mLily, Easy Rest and others as well all of which tend to be better than average quality/value mattresses compared to most Chinese manufacturers but I would also read post #2 here and post #6 here so you are comfortable with some of the uncertainty involved with foams that are made in China. In most cases the manufacturers that use their foam will tell their customers the foam densities that they use in their mattresses.

So I think their point is valid but I also think that by not disclosing their foam densities at all instead of helping their customers compare CertiPur certified foams to other CertiPur certified foams they are doing themselves no favors because they are encouraging comparisons with "unknown" cheap foams or lower quality materials when in many cases they use higher quality materials. By not disclosing the information at all I think they put themselves in a worse position than if they do disclose it and then make people aware to compare their materials and mattresses to other CertiPur certified foams and not other "unknown" foams (especially Chinese foams) where there is no assurance at all that the density ratings are the unfilled polymer density.

He is also correct that memory foam has many different formulations and each of them (including different densities) can be very different in performance and that density alone shouldn't determine what type of foam is used in a mattress. It is also true though that even with different types of memory foam that unfilled polymer density is the single most important (but not the only) factor in durability even between different manufacturers so if a lower density is used because it has properties that are more desirable for a particular application (such as more breathable 4 lb memory foam) then the consumer should at least be aware that there could be a durability tradeoff.

If the mattress manufacturers that use their foams can disclose the density of the foams they use ... then I see no reason why they can't as well for their own mattresses.

So assuming that we are talking about the same company ... and also recognizing that they are making some valid points ... I still don't see any reason why they can't disclose their foam specs for those who want to know them especially when mattress manufacturers that are using them are doing so.

By not doing so they are encouraging comparisons to "unknown", poor quality, and "cheap" memory foams in a "race to the bottom". IMO they need to identify why they are better ... not eliminate good information completely from the discussion which only encourages the very type of comparisons they are hoping to avoid.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by AdminTMU. Reason: Removed Page Not Found Link (404 Error)

Re: Heatlh Care mattress? Email exchange 18 Nov 2012 18:33 #3

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That's what I don't understand as the owners of the store said is was made by health care so I assumed it was bieng sold as that being the brand name..and on the cover of the mattress it said health care...do they not sell there own mattress or do they only sell the foam and let other companies brand them as there own? I'm going to send them another email asking that and call store that had it...the store might be confused as they normally just sell their handmade furniture..like I said above it was right at a $1000 for the mattress and it was really comfortable so I thought I would research it..

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Re: Heatlh Care mattress? Email exchange 18 Nov 2012 18:40 #4

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Hi Pooswa,

I'm not sure if we are talking about the same "Health Care" but if it is the foam manufacturer then they also list some memory foam mattresses on their site which uses 3 lb memory foam which is low density but I know they also make higher density foam that is used on some of the brands they supply. They also say on their site that they don't sell directly to consumers so this would fit the description that they give you.

Phoenix
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Re: Heatlh Care mattress? Email exchange 18 Nov 2012 18:52 #5

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Yesterday I also contacted Dreamfoam Bedding and he couldn't have been more honest and hepful with me but it just really scares me to buy a mattress online..especially with no return policy

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Re: Heatlh Care mattress? Email exchange 18 Nov 2012 19:12 #6

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Hi Pooswa,

I'm not sure if we are talking about the same "Health Care" but if it is the foam manufacturer then they also list some memory foam mattresses on their site which uses 3 lb memory foam which is low density but I know they also make higher density foam that is used on some of the brands they supply. They also say on their site that they don't sell directly to consumers so this would fit the description that they give you.

Phoenix


When I search for health care mattress they are the only ones who come up so I assume it is the same one?

Would you rate thier mattress a good value ? Again the price was right over a $1000

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Re: Heatlh Care mattress? Email exchange 18 Nov 2012 19:15 #7

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Hi Pooswa,

Just so you know ... Dreamfoam also offers a Eurotop version were you can exchange the top layer for a softer or firmer layer at a reasonable cost if you need to.

The way it works is that they charge you either $200 for a King or $150 for the smaller sizes and take care of the shipping costs and then refund half of your deposit when they have received the old layer back (or you can also keep the old layer if you wish to).

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: Heatlh Care mattress? Email exchange 18 Nov 2012 19:25 #8

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Yes he informed me of that yesterday but its still a nerve racking experience.. But the price is great and reviews are great .. I will call him and get more info from him this week.

Thanks for your help

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