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Re: Latex Mattresses 03 Oct 2012 05:05 #21

  • phoenix
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Hi Sepia,

You are one of two posts from last night in this thread that I missed when I only replied to the last one from today so sorry to take so long with this reply.

In terms of your choices ...

Latex mattress from dixiefoam.com - 6" thick tri-zoned (medium at head & foot, firm in the midsec) latex foam rubber mattress is outstanding for pressure relief $1335 (inc BS).


While your own testing would be the best judge ... I would think a separate support layer and a few inches (in the range of 2-3" depending on the core firmness) of softer latex would probably work a little better. A 6" mattress that is firm enough for good support may not have quite the pressure relief that you would need as a sensitive side sleeper.

NaturaLatex Tranquil from NaturaWorld.com 1" Plant-based foam 2” Talalay latex (blended) 5" Plant-based foam $1399 (inc BS)

This would be a good choice but it's a little high in terms of price with only 2" of latex although it does have more wool than average which is a more expensive material and also has many benefits in a mattress (especially for breathability and temperature regulation). This would be "in the range" in terms of construction but it would also depend on the firmness/softness of the foams that were in it.

This would be similar in construction to the Dixie Foam CloudRest except the Cloudrest doesn't have the wool but has a slightly thicker layer of latex and a higher quality base foam.

Latex Supreme from Original Mattress Factory $1699 (inc BS)

ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: originalmattress.com/latex-foam/pricing-and-sizes

This would probably also make a good quality/value choice and may be a little softer than the other two. I don't think they ship their mattresses though (and if they did it would cost a lot) but I could be wrong here.

PS I also liked the Snowmass by the Denver Mattress Company $1349 (inc BS) but I don't know if they will or how much it will cost to deliver to NYC www.furniturerow.com/DenverMattressCo/Sn...ress-Set/prod130173/


This would also make a good choice as well but again I don't know if they ship and if they did it would cost a great deal. The Aspen would be a little softer and may be a little better choice as well given your circumstances.

Overall though it seems you have the right idea which is a firmer core for good support and then 2-3" of softer latex to provide the pressure relief that you will need and to fill in the "gaps" in your spinal curves.

Phoenix
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Re: Latex Mattresses 06 Oct 2012 03:27 #22

Thanks so much Phoenix for taking to time to review my post and reply. I really appreciate it. I will be home in NYC in 2 days and will start my testing then. I'll look in to something close to the Latex Supreme from Original Mattress Factory or the Aspen by the Denver Mattress Company. Are there any others you think I should look for?

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Re: Latex Mattresses 06 Oct 2012 07:32 #23

  • bobfrog12
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Just a note to consider, I recently got the Snowmass mattress since it felt a slight bit firmer. I had been told that they tend to soften up a little as you sleep on them and I would agree, it does seem to feel just a little softer after I have been laying on it for over 10 to 15 minutes. Still has plenty of support and is very comfortable.

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Re: Latex Mattresses 06 Oct 2012 14:34 #24

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Hi Sepia,

The better choices I'm aware of in the NYC area are listed in post #2 here and a more categorized list with more detailed descriptions or many of them are in post #4 here .

Neither Original mattress or Denver mattress are close to NYC and shipping costs would likely be prohibitive so I would focus either on local choices (particularly the last group of 5 on the NJ list, 3 of which are close to you) or on better manufacturers that specialize in working with customers online or on the phone (and some of the best in the country of this type and that are recommended members here are listed in post #21 here ).

Phoenix
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Re: Latex Mattresses 08 Oct 2012 12:11 #25

  • katscan
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Hello Phoenix
Thank you so much for your detailed response. It is a new experience for me to put my questions out on a forum and get personal attention!
To be more specific about my daughter's sleep profile: 5'10", 155 lbs, side sleeper mostly, lordosis with some back issues, likes "plush" feel = not too soft but definitely not very firm. She is also a health conscious, very "natural products" customer. Sounds like good support layer and then not sure what for comfort. She likes the idea of the wool in cover but you mention that wool can "isolate from the response of latex" and over time will compact and feel firmer. She also has never slept on latex.
Given her location the on line sources are the best. She really doesn't have time to test mattresses that aren't even ones she would get. So she is trusting that we find the right combination. She is also a student so doesn't feel this has to be the mattress that will last forever (10 -20 yrs) but find her a comfortable healthy bed now that lasts 5-6 yrs. My sister just got a mattress from Gardiner in MA but that more of an investment.
This makes the Dreamfoam natural with 100% natural dunlap and the wool sound good, although the talalay comfort layer might be softer as one of your members asked if they put the wool with it. As the dunlap is firmer over all, does it come in different ILD to affect the feel or is it in the 1-10 scale?
Also the AZ mattress with the zones sounds interesting but maybe too difficult to design.
Actually, I was raised on a dunlap "rubber" mattress in the northeast and tried for years to find them but they seemed to have disappeared from the market. I didn't find them again until the internet. A friend just got a Sonoroll "latex" but I couldn't any specifics - have you heard of it?
Amazon also lists "Eco-lux" and "Tranquility" mattresses, have you reviewed them?
Thank you for your help.

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Re: Latex Mattresses 08 Oct 2012 16:50 #26

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Hi katscan,

To be more specific about my daughter's sleep profile: 5'10", 155 lbs, side sleeper mostly, lordosis with some back issues, likes "plush" feel = not too soft but definitely not very firm. She is also a health conscious, very "natural products" customer. Sounds like good support layer and then not sure what for comfort. She likes the idea of the wool in cover but you mention that wool can "isolate from the response of latex" and over time will compact and feel firmer. She also has never slept on latex.


Wool is a great material to have in the quilting of your mattress but like every other choice it has pros and cons. It is very breathable and temperature regulating and in thinner layers and as part of a stretch knit cover can have less effect on the feel of the latex below it but in thicker layers you will feel more of the wool and less of the latex. A wool topper or mattress protector or mattress pad can also be added to a latex mattress. In other words ... it is not a matter of better or worse but more about personal preferences and differences. The "feel" of wool is not better or worse than the feel of latex ... just different and one will affect the other.

If I was adding a thicker wool layer though (vs a thinner one in the quilting) ... I would tend to add it as a topper or mattress pad rather than in the quilting of the mattress. A thicker wool layer will develop some impressions in it which is part of how wool responds but impressions in wool are not the same as impressions in polyfoam (which means the polyfoam is softening and breaking down). A separate wool topper or mattress pad also allows you to replace it without replacing the whole mattress should that be necessary. It's really a matter of degree and how well any combination of materials fits your needs and preferences. Both wool and latex are premium materials in a mattress or sleeping system and the trick is to make sure that any combination you use fits your needs and preferences.

She also has never slept on latex.
Given her location the on line sources are the best. She really doesn't have time to test mattresses that aren't even ones she would get. So she is trusting that we find the right combination. She is also a student so doesn't feel this has to be the mattress that will last forever (10 -20 yrs) but find her a comfortable healthy bed now that lasts 5-6 yrs. My sister just got a mattress from Gardiner in MA but that more of an investment.


While "good" latex is a great quality material ... I would never recommend sleeping on a mattress that used materials that someone wasn't at least generally familiar with. Not everyone likes the feel of latex or any other material and with an online purchase I strongly recommend some local testing as a guideline. Any good quality mattress should last 5-6 years if it is well matched to the person and uses good quality materials ... especially in the upper layers which tends to be the weak link of a mattress.

This makes the Dreamfoam natural with 100% natural dunlap and the wool sound good, although the talalay comfort layer might be softer as one of your members asked if they put the wool with it. As the dunlap is firmer over all, does it come in different ILD to affect the feel or is it in the 1-10 scale?


Each manufacturer is very familiar with the combination of components in their mattresses and is the best place to get more specific recommendations about the mattresses they make. They have "standard" recommendation for all the mattresses they make based on their knowledge of every component and layer (every layer and component affects every other layer and component in the mattress), "averages", and feedback from their customer base along with any local testing that may indicate personal preferences. The 1 - 10 scale with the Dreamfoam is based on different ILD's in the latex comfort layer (both Dunlop and Talalay have different firmness levels) but they use the scale because it is easier for consumers to understand and relate to than ILD numbers which for most consumers have little meaning.

Both Dunlop and Talalay come in a range of firmness choices so either one could be softer or firmer but in the same ILD ... Dunlop will tend to feel a little firmer than Talalay. Each person also has a different "value equation" (the things that are more or less important) but the Dunlop would be a good choice for those who like the feel of Dunlop and the temperature regulation and other benefits of wool in the quilting. Just as an example ... I personally prefer Talalay but my daughter bought a mattress in the last couple of days and after testing both she preferred the feel of Dunlop which is what she purchased after testing both.

Also the AZ mattress with the zones sounds interesting but maybe too difficult to design.
Actually, I was raised on a dunlap "rubber" mattress in the northeast and tried for years to find them but they seemed to have disappeared from the market. I didn't find them again until the internet. A friend just got a Sonoroll "latex" but I couldn't any specifics - have you heard of it?


Most manufacturers would be doing the "designing" based on your statistics and any feedback you provide so the designing is fairly simple and is based on their knowledge and experience. The best suggestion is to talk with the manufacturer about any online mattress you are considering because this is the only way to get a sense of how well their particular design will "fit" your needs and preferences and the various options you may have. Arizona Premium for example would have 3 basic firmness choices (in their "standard" 6" + 2" mattress) which is soft, medium, and firm so there isn't a lot of "designing" involved although they of course have other options in terms of type of latex and thicker comfort layers as well.

If the Sonorall is this one ... then it doesn't provide any information about what is in it except to say that it includes 1" of Celsion. The rest of the materials are unknown so there is no way to make any meaningful comments about it.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: mauibedstore.com/products/mattresses/sonoroll-fairmont-plush-2/

Amazon also lists "Eco-lux" and "Tranquility" mattresses, have you reviewed them?


The Eco-Lux is probably a Boyd mattress and some of these have latex and some have what they call "engineered latex" which is polyfoam and isn't latex at all. If you provide a link to the mattresses you are curious about (to save me guessing which ones you mean or searching for them by model name which may lead to different mattresses) I'd certainly be happy to give you some brief comments if it includes (or I know) the layering of the mattress.

Phoenix
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Re: Latex Mattresses 21 Nov 2012 08:07 #27

Hi again Phoenix,
Great work you are doing on here. I've been reading and trying to educate myself more since last I posted. I'm finally in a new apartment and can have a mattress delivered but I have some more questions.
I tried searching but I couldn't find an answer to "What is the difference between a mattress that has innersprings/coils on the bottom with latex on top vs an all latex mattress?" I'm guessing the all latex mattress is softer? Being a side sleeper I want soft but having UPPER chronic back pain I don't know if innersprings/coils with latex on top would be better? I have yet to get to the mattress stores around NYC yet b/c of moving and Hurricane Sandy but the answer to the above question will determine if I got to DixieFoam or RoomandBoard.
Secondly, if I go the all latex mattress route it seems there are some good online ones you pointed to in another post. The ones I liked best are:
Natural Talalay Latex Mattress w/ Organic Cotton Cover - $1395
9" All Natural Talalay Latex - $1390
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: mattresses.net/queen-organic-cotton-talalay-latex-mattress.html

What do you think of these choices compare to the DixieFoam all Latex Mattress ($1140 Queen)?


PS I saw a post where you admonished a troll trying to imply you get referral money. I think you handled it well and I do hope that very soon you can turn this into a profit where you can hire people to do some of the work (like webmaster) so you can concentrate on giving the mattress advise you are so good at and take a little time with your family.

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Re: Latex Mattresses 21 Nov 2012 19:48 #28

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Hi Sepia,

Both innersprings and a firmer latex core can be used as a support layer and each has very "different" characteristics but besides the more obvious ones the most important differences are the ones you can feel and that you personally prefer. Both of them come in softer or firmer versions and in many different designs so an innerspring could be firmer than a latex core or the other way around depending on the specifics of the components you are comparing. There is more about the 4 main types of innersprings in this article and in post #10 here and more detailed information about innersprings vs latex support cores in post #2 here and more about the different types and blends of latex in this article and in post #6 here .

Some of the more technical differences include ...

Innersprings have a more "flat line" response curve than latex ( see the graph here ) but because there are many types of innersprings with different response curves this doesn't always hold true and there are also different types of latex which would also have different response curves.

Innersprings absorb less energy than latex which means they are more resilient. They "push back" more strongly than latex in other words but this is not the same as softness ... only about how much of the energy that is used to compress them is lost (or how high a ball will bounce when it's dropped on them).

Latex has a similar or higher compression modulus than most innerspring spring rates and either gets firmer with deeper compression at a similar rate as an innerspring (Talalay) or at a faster rate than an innerspring (Dunlop) which means it can be more "supportive".

Different innersprings have widely different abilities to take on the shape of the body (depending on the number of coils and how independently they function) while latex is much more "point elastic" than any of them because it can flex in each part of the core with less effect on the area around it than an innerspring.

In general latex will be more motion isolating than an innerspring.

Firmer latex will be more durable than an innerspring but neither of them would tend to be the weak link of a mattress.

Innersprings have more "air" in them so they would be more breathable than latex even though latex is the most breathable of the foam materials but the deeper layers of a mattress also have less effect on the ventilation and temperature of a mattress than the comfort layers.

Most latex is more expensive than most innersprings.

They "feel" very different with innersprings being more "bouncy" or "springy" than latex (although latex has more "spring" than other foam types).

There are many other more technical differences but the most important differences are the ones you can feel. Either of them can make a good choice for a support layer and in the end it really boils down to which one you tend to prefer. Both of them can provide good/support alignment. There are so many varieties of both that it's not really possible to make more specific comparisons outside of some of the more obvious and more "generic" differences that I've mentioned.

Making more generalized assessments of a mattress only based on one component doesn't take into account that all the layers in a mattress work together and will affect its feel and performance so either one could be part of a mattress that provides you with your pressure relief and alignment/support needs. Assuming that all the materials in a mattress are high quality ... everything boils down to which mattress design works best for the two basic functions of a mattress .

What do you think of these choices compare to the DixieFoam all Latex Mattress ($1140 Queen)?


I think that all of these could make very good choices. Once you have narrowed your list down to choices between "good and good" ... my job is done and it's time for me to "step out of the way" so you can decide on which is best based on your conversations with each manufacturer, your own personal risk tolerance (online is "riskier" than local), and the other parts of your "value equation" (see post #46 here ) that are most important to you. I would never make a "final decision" for anyone else because that's when it needs to be up to your own unique preferences and what is more or less important to you.

The good news is that there are no "bad" choices in your list and your own thoughts and confidence about which will best "match" what you need and prefer is the only real way to choose between them. I know from personal experience how difficult it can be to "eliminate" a great choice but it has to be done (unless you buy more than one mattress ;))

PS I saw a post where you admonished a troll trying to imply you get referral money. I think you handled it well and I do hope that very soon you can turn this into a profit where you can hire people to do some of the work (like webmaster) so you can concentrate on giving the mattress advise you are so good at and take a little time with your family.


Thanks for the thoughts ... and it's nice to see that the site is reaching a place where I can "begin to breathe" and there are a lot of things that I have planned in the next year or two that will increase the scope and helpfulness of the site. :)

Phoenix
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Re: Latex Mattresses 14 Jan 2013 04:19 #29

OK so I finally out a mattress and have had it for a few weeks. So I figured I would report in as well as ask some questions.

I decided on the Rocky Mountain Talalay Latex Mattress with 16 IDL top layer over firm (35 IDL I think) bottom layer.

Customer Service of Rocky Mountain Mattress before I got the mattress was not good. They didn't/couldn't tell me where the mattress was or when it would be delivered. When it did finally get delivered the delivery guys left it just laying outside my apt (inside the gate but still on the outside street part of apt building). Yes they left a $1300-1400 purchase just laying around. I don't work and am home all the time so luckily I saw it very soon after it was delivered when I took my dog out (no they didn't ring the door bell).

The Mattress itself is comfortable and uncomfortable and this is where I need your help. When first lying on the mattress it is really comfortable & soft and has a firm but somewhat bouncy feel that you described. All those things I love about it. The problem occurs after a night of sleeping. I wake up with pain :(. What kind of pain? Pain in my lower back (which hasn't been a problem for me) and added pain in my upper back (which is always a problem for me). Pain in my shoulder and in my hip. I like a soft mattress but is a soft mattress making it painful? Or is the mattress too firm so that it is causing me pain because my spine isn't aligned right or my hip doesn't sink in enough?

Before I return the mattress I want to know what I might do to remedy this problem. Right now the mattress is on a wood platform with no foundation. Should I get one of the foundations you talked about here: Post #1
Or should I get an overlay such as latex or memory foam?
Or should I do both?
I realize that those are different takes but I'm not sure exactly what to do?

PS Customer Service since I have the mattress has been good as they are willing to work with me whether I return it or give me a price break on an overlay if that is what I decide.

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Re: Latex Mattresses 14 Jan 2013 07:28 #30

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Hi Sepia,

It would be helpful to know your height/weight information and your sleeping positions but based on the construction of the mattress, your symptoms, and on the fact that you have a 2" layer of very soft latex in the comfort layer over a fairly firm support layer ... I would suspect that you need a little more thickness in the comfort layers and that would likely solve the shoulder and hip discomfort (from going through the soft latex into the firmer latex below it) and it may well solve the lower back issues which could be coming from twisting away from pressure or from not having enough thickness in your comfort layer to fully fill in the lumbar gap in the small of your back.

Even though the top layer is soft ... this would be more of a firm mattress because you are so close to the firmer layers and the upper layers are fairly thin and soft which lets you "go through" them and feel more of the firmness underneath them.

The first step is always to give yourself some time to adjust to a new mattress so that you aren't making changes too quickly (and your body doesn't have enough time to catch up to the changes in your sleeping surface).

Outside of that ... I don't think a different foundation would help much (you are already on a firm base on a wood platform and a tension adjustable base would likely only have a smaller effect because you would have 8" of latex over it) but this would likely be a situation where a topper would have very good odds of solving the issues you are facing.

Phoenix
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