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Holder Mattress 03 Oct 2011 13:15 #1

  • seby19
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We were looking at your mattress forum about the iComfort and Tempurpedic mattresses and have decided to look at other options. We have a local mattress company called Holder Mattress in Kokomo, IN and wonder if anyone has heard of it or knows anything about the quality of their mattresses. We are looking at their natural latex bed.

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Re: Holder Mattress 03 Oct 2011 20:14 #2

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Hi Seby19,

There are actually three different "Holders" near you that are all factory direct manufacturers ... , all parts of the same family in business since 1947 but not connected to each other. Two have two stores and one has one. They would be well worth visiting and likely have better value than most of the retail outlets nearby but there will be differences between them and I would make sure to incude the one in Lafayette.

www.holderbedding.net/quality-luxury-mattresses.html Muncie and Anderson

www.holdermattress.com/locations/ Kokomo and Carmel

www.holderbeddinglafayette.com/ Lafayette

There is also a regional manufacturer based in Indiana which has outlets near you which carry their mattresses ...

bowlesmattress.com/html/where2.htm#show

There is also a nearby retailer who carries Jamison (which makes latex mattresses) which may be useful for research and field testing for reference even though they may not have the same value as the other options listed and the price may not justify an actual purchase.

www.gillbros.com/mattress.aspx

If I was in your shoes ... these are the places I would spend my time :)

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: Holder Mattress 03 Oct 2011 21:10 #3

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Holder Mattress in Kokomo is where we visited. Their top of the line all natural latex queen mattress and box springs were about $3200. Does that sound about right?

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Re: Holder Mattress 03 Oct 2011 22:26 #4

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Hi Seby19,

While on the surface it seems on the high side, the "value" would depend on the type of latex, the thickness of the mattress and the layers in it, the quilting and ticking, and the methods of construction that the mattress used. All of these can make a significant difference in the cost of a mattress. I would also "remove" the cost of any base or boxspring under the mattress so that the value of different mattresses can be compared directly on their own. Most latex mattresses would use a slatted base rather than a boxspring as well although this may be what you meant (there are no springs in a slatted base). "All latex" mattresses with around 8" of latex usually start at under $1500 in a queen and then can go up from there ... in some cases to "astronomical levels" ... depending on where it is bought, how it is made, and who makes it.

If I knew the construction of the mattress I would be in a better position to compare it to other options. I would certainly compare it though to similar mattresses in the other outlets I mentioned and regardless of whether you choose to buy any particular model, your testing will certainly help point to the best type of construction for your needs (pressure relief and spinal alignment in all your sleeping positions).

Phoenix
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Re: Holder Mattress 03 Oct 2011 23:22 #5

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On the Holder Mattress website it shows a picture of the inside of their Natures Impressions mattress under their luxury mattress'. It doesn't tell what the thickness or composition of the materials are but I don't know if you can tell anything by looking at the inside?

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Re: Holder Mattress 03 Oct 2011 23:45 #6

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I sent the company an email with some of those questions about latex type and materials used and thickness.

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Re: Holder Mattress 04 Oct 2011 01:12 #7

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Hi seby19,

The layer by layer description of a mattress (type of material, thickness of each layer, density of any memory foam, type of latex used for latex foam, and density of any polyfoam) will tell you more about a mattress than anything else in terms of quality and value. The type of quilting and ticking and any more "difficult" or higher quality types of construction (such as various types of tufting and many others) will also be an important part of this.

The bespoke for example says that it has a latex comfort layer and a latex support core but it doesn't say what type of latex (talalay or dunlop, natural or blended) and it doesn't say the thickness of each layer. It looks like a high quality mattress with a good quality ticking and quilting and for $2599 (queen) this would be better value than almost anything similar in a chain store or a major brand (if they even had something similar).

For example ... a supposedly "very high quality" mattress sold at many chain stores is the "top of the line" Dr Breus Signature Platinum Plush Eurotop" which sells for $2800 (queen). They call this a "latex" mattress which it really isn't (it has more polyfoam than latex in it which is a much cheaper and lower quality material) and I wouldn't even consider buying this at all (because of the cheap polyfoam in it) yet it sells for $200 more. Clearly the Bespoke has much better value than the Dr Breus.

With the information gaps filled in ... then it can be realistically compared to other "all latex" mattresses for value.

I would also not purchase an innerspring with an all latex mattress as a firm slatted base or a tension or position adjustable base would normally be more suitable. A suitable strong slatted and inflexible base shouldn't cost you more than $300 and even less is better. If I was going to spend more than this (like the $600 for the innerspring) which may not be necessary at all ... it would be on a tension adjustable slatted base or a position adjustable base. I purchased my Reverie Deluxe queen size adjustable bed with all the "bells and whistles" like massage and zero gravity and wireless remote for under $1000 for example. The innerspring would change the feel of the mattress though so I would test it on a firm base not on the innerspring if you decide to go there.

In my experience it is usually better to talk with mattress manufacturers on the phone to ask your questions as in an email ... it usually ends up that every question leads to several more and if each email takes a couple of days to get answered, you may still not have all the questions you may need to ask (or the other information they will share that you may not think to ask about at all) a week later when a 15 minute "interactive call" will give you most of what you need and a "feel" for their customer service and knowledge as well. Most "mattress people" do much better on a conversation than they do in an email which is a very difficult and time consuming method to answer complex questions.

A layer by layer value comparison with the other Holder and Bowles will give a much better idea of the value that is available locally and your actual field testing on mattresses like these will go a long way to helping you know the type of mattress which is best for you in terms of pressure relief and spinal alignment. A general and approximate "rule of thumb" is if a local mattress is less than about 20% more than a similar purchase online (such as from some of our members who sell all latex mattresses where you can "customize" them to your preferences) then it is well worth buying locally for the peace of mind that comes with knowing you have tested the specific mattress you are buying. If the difference is more than about 20% and the comparison is between similar mattresses in terms of quality and build, then an online purchase may be well worth considering. For some people ... the value of getting "exactly" what they want with actual testing may be an even more important part of the "value" of a mattress. Value always includes the intangibles and subjective preferences that are individual to each person.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: Holder Mattress 04 Oct 2011 19:21 #8

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Here is what response I got from the company.

We only use all natural talalay latex. The total depth for that mattress would be approximately eleven inches. The makeup consists of a 6" 36 ILD core, with a 1" layer of 19 ILD latex on either side, followed by the panel which consists of 1 oz. Natural wool and 1.25" of .1515 foam.

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Re: Holder Mattress 05 Oct 2011 00:18 #9

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Hi Seby19,

I like that it is double sided as this lets the polyfoam and the quilting on each side "rest" when you flip it. It may also help softer latex layers last longer even though it is already very durable. Finishing a mattress on both sides is also more expensive and adds to the value.

In a mattress in this price range however made by an independent manufacturer, I question the use of polyfoam in the quilting. It is done by many because of its feel and because it is less expensive than using 2" of latex on each side or quiltable latex. For a manufacturer who makes a 2 sided high quality latex mattress, I would tend to make it all latex in this price range. While I have no issues with an inch or so of poly in the quilting, the price should reflect this.

Compare this for example to the 2 sided similar mattress here which has 1.5" of talalay latex and an inch of poly on each side over a 6" core.

Or for even higher value ... This mattress is available at My Green Mattress (one of our members) is also 2 sided and has a 5" talalay core with 2" of talalay on each side for even less.

Even the Pure Latex Bliss Nature (one of the few and perhaps the best value mattress sold in "chain stores" IMO) has 10" of latex and while it is only one sided, it retails for around $2000.

So overall ... while the Bespoke is certainly a higher quality and value mattress than most people end up buying and compares very favorably to major brands in terms of quality and price, it does not compare as well to other mattresses from other independent manufacturers that may be available.

Phoenix
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Re: Holder Mattress 14 Oct 2011 00:41 #10

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I know this company quite well. At one time it was America's premier factory direct mattress company. Unfortunately they have reverted to the dark ages of mattress making (70's and 80's). Products that have not been updated since the early 2000's. I walked in one of the stores last year and thought I was back in the 80's. Mattresses from that era were kind of similar to cars from that time period...nice when drove them off the showroom floor with buyers remorse six months later. The other part of the "New Holder" is that their products are priced as if they were something special...they are not. Too much bounce with traditional innersprings with loads of cheap polyurethane foam on bouncy full movement boxsprings (that are not even made the way they once were either). The real Holder DNA still lives in Holder Bedding in Lafayette. Better mattresses sold at real value factory direct pricing. If you want the real Holder, I suggest you go there. None of the "Real Holder DNA" exists anymore at the Holder in Kokomo or Carmel Indiana.

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