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Latex Configuration Help 17 Jul 2012 01:28 #1

  • r_letch
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Pheonix,

Great site! So glad I found it!

We currently have a Simmons King innerspring bed, which is 4+ years old and we are in need up an upgrade. My wife has lower back pain and neck pain and I often wake up feeling worse than when I went to sleep. We recently vacationed at the Bellagio in Las Vegas, and felt like we’d had a better nights rest than at home. We started our adventure by looking at the Bellagio line of mattresses by Serta. We liked the mattresses and spent a few hours trying them out, but after getting home and doing some research I decided to try some other options and ended up really liking latex.

I’m 5’ 11’’, 180 lbs and my wife is 5’ 5”, 130 lbs – both are back and side sleepers.
I seem to fit the Princess and The Pea mold more than my wife. She does not have much of an opinion on most beds we try out. She thinks she likes a firm bed:)

Bed’s we've looked at so far:

The Bedroom Store
We were looking for memory foam when we walked in, but really liked the feel of the latex sleep metrics #2 bed. I was concerned, like you, when they would not disclose what the layers were made of, so I started doing some more research, which lead me to your site.

STLBeds
Tried both the PLB Pamper and Nature and the Savvy Rest Organic.
PLB Nature – We thought it was a touch too firm.
PLB Pamper - A 3”14 ILD topper was added to the top and we thought it was a little too soft. Doug, who is the owner’s son, suggested ordering the 3” 19 ILD topper to give us the perfect feel. Unfortunately, they did not have one for us to try, so we’d have to take a chance. He said he would take the topper back because we were going off of his recommendation, but I would still be stuck with the bed.
Savvy Rest Organic customizable – The setup in the store was Firm/Med/Soft and Firm/Med/Med Dunlop. The Soft Dunlop on top felt a bit too firm for us. They had a 3” Savvy Rest Soft Organic Talalay Topper on hand, so we traded out the 3” Dunlop top layer with the 3” Talalay topper, which we really liked. I believe the topper was around 22 ILD.

So, in conclusion, our favorite mattress to date was the Savvy Rest Organic Dunlop Firm/Dunlop Medium/Talalay Soft, but felt the Savvy Rest was too steep in price. The second option is the PLB Pamper with a 3” Talalay 19 ILD Topper. I’m concerned this setup lacks a medium firmness, since is would be 6” of really firm Talalay (40 ILD), then 4” of really soft Talalay (19 ILD). Does this setup make sense? Even if we went with only the 2” 19 ILD topper instead of the 3” topper? The Third option would be ordering the 10 inch online from Sleep EZ. Their prices are hard to beat! Since my wife and I both liked the Dunlop Firm/Dunlop Medium/Talalay Soft, would you recommend the same from Sleep EZ? I was thinking about getting king size layers since we both liked the same setup instead of customizing the sides. At the very least, I think we’d like the full king layer on top to avoid feeling the seam. I know you usually recommend her side a little softer when there is a 50 lb difference.

I'm starting to get overloaded with information, so I'm reaching out for some advice.

Thanks!

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Last edit: by r_letch.

Re: Latex Configuration Help 17 Jul 2012 02:59 #2

  • phoenix
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Hi r_letch,

The Bedroom Store
We were looking for memory foam when we walked in, but really liked the feel of the latex sleep metrics #2 bed. I was concerned, like you, when they would not disclose what the layers were made of, so I started doing some more research, which lead me to your site.


You were wise to do some research. The Sleep Metrics mattresses are made by Boyd and the "engineered latex" they use in many of their lower end mattresses is actually polyfoam that has been fabricated to have a similar feel to latex and is not latex at all. They are part of the Sleep Metrics system which uses a computerized system to "point to" one of the 4 mattresses in combination with a pillow. It's a sales tool that is being used by other manufacturers as well such as the Kingsdown MySide to help the retailers sell their mattresses (it only points to mattresses made by that manufacturer).

So, in conclusion, our favorite mattress to date was the Savvy Rest Organic Dunlop Firm/Dunlop Medium/Talalay Soft, but felt the Savvy Rest was too steep in price.


I think the fact that this was your favorite would bypass the other testing you did because it's also the easiest layering to "duplicate" almost exactly with the sleepEz 10000 with a similar choice in layering.

The second option is the PLB Pamper with a 3” Talalay 19 ILD Topper. I’m concerned this setup lacks a medium firmness, since is would be 6” of really firm Talalay (40 ILD), then 4” of really soft Talalay (19 ILD). Does this setup make sense? Even if we went with only the 2” 19 ILD topper instead of the 3” topper?


Both of these make sense but like you I would think the 19 ILD would be less "risky". A very soft 4" comfort layer (3" of 14 ILD and 1" of the 19 ILD that is on top of the pamper) over the very firm is what I call a "differential construction" and would need a thicker comfort layer to isolate you from the firmness of the very firm core. The alternative type of layering which I call "progressive construction" could use a transition layer or a softer support layer and would not require as thick a comfort layer. Both methods can work well but require different layer thicknesses and layer ILD's. It would have been interesting to try the 2" PLB topper but I suspect you would have felt too much of the firmness of the core 'through" it.

All of this is somewhat moot though because as I mentioned the SavvyRest worked better anyway and it's much easier to "duplicate". The Talalay topper would have been in the range of 22 ILD and would be the same material that SleepEz uses (they both use the same Talalay supplier). The comparable equivalent in the less expensive blended Talalay would be @24 ILD. Medium and Firm Dunlop would be closely equivalent even though they use different Dunlop suppliers.

Their prices are hard to beat! Since my wife and I both liked the Dunlop Firm/Dunlop Medium/Talalay Soft, would you recommend the same from Sleep EZ? I was thinking about getting king size layers since we both liked the same setup instead of customizing the sides. At the very least, I think we’d like the full king layer on top to avoid feeling the seam. I know you usually recommend her side a little softer when there is a 50 lb difference.


There are lower cost ways to go of course but they may not be the same as the SavvyRest which is your model and I would personally stick with the closest duplicate to the testing that worked best for you (which in this case is a 3x3 layering using the same or similar materials and firmness levels and a similar cover). This would make the two directly comparable and wouldn't require any "translating" of different layer combinations or thicknesses to be comparable. I would also not argue with testing results no matter what the weight difference because personal testing always trumps "theory at a distance" which is based on averages not on individual needs and preferences. None of us is ever really "average" :)

Talking with the manufacturer (in this case Shawn) can also give you any additional insights you may need that are specific to the mattresses they make.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: Latex Configuration Help 17 Jul 2012 15:51 #3

  • LAsleeper
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r_letch,
I also tried Savvy Rest and wound up buying a similar setup from SleepEZ about a month ago - we have been very happy with our decision so far, and I feel that since the insides of both mattresses are basically the same, and the only real difference is the service, price and the mattress cover - SleepEZ beats Savvy Rest on each of those points. The Savvy Rest cover feels like burlap compared to the SleepEZ organic cotton+wool cover.

SleepEZ also offers blended talalay as an option, which in the top layer, with a lower ILD, may offer better quality, comfort and durability at a lower price, if you are not dead-set on a 100% natural product . We chose blended talalay for our top layer, and it was the cleanest, most consistent piece of latex we were shipped.

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Last edit: by LAsleeper. Reason: I got confused with another post

Re: Latex Configuration Help 17 Jul 2012 22:06 #4

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Phoenix,

Thanks for your help! I think the Sleep Ez route seems like the best solution for us:)

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Last edit: by r_letch.

Re: Latex Configuration Help 18 Jul 2012 08:35 #5

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LASleeper,

Thanks for the help! Our original goal was not the 100% organic route, but wanted to try and duplicate what we had liked locally. I would rather go with the blended latex, if we could get the same comfort and feel. I'm assuming you went with the blended latex in both the Dunlop and Talalay. Is this correct? If so, does the blended Sleep EZ feel similar to the organic Savvy Rest? Also, you mentioned the a lower ILD Talalay for the top layer. Are you saying we have a choice to get a blended Talalay top layer from Sleep EZ, which is equivalent to the 22 ILD Savvy Rest we tried?

Thanks
r_letch

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Re: Latex Configuration Help 18 Jul 2012 14:22 #6

  • LAsleeper
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r_letch,
Have you spoken to Shawn at SleepEZ yet?
He is very happy to take calls with questions about his products and configurations. He is a better resource than I.

That being said, here's my two cents until you call him: I don't think SleepEZ has a blended Dunlop option, and I don't think this is something you would want, anyway (Shawn or Phoenix can confirm this for you).

Here is my understanding of their selection:
They offer 100% natural Dunlop and organic Dunlop.
Their Talalay options are blended Talalay and 100% natural Talalay.
If you go with their "Natural" line, you will have a choice or combination of 100% natural Dunlop and blended Talalay.
If you go with their "Organic" line, you will have a choice or combination of organic Dunlop and 100% natural Talalay.

Unfortunately, I do not have any personal experience to base my comments on their soft layer and compare it to Savvy Rest, as we chose a medium ILD for our top layer, so I am not personally aware of how the SleepEZ soft layer feels. Again, don't hesitate to call Shawn. If you go to sleepez.com and click on "mattress lines" then "mattress components" you will see that the ILD of their soft Talalays are in the 22-24 range. Most of the latex mattress builders and Phoenix will confirm that blended Talalay is the highest "quality" material, will last the longest, and is probably more comfortable than 100% natural Talalay in a similar ILD. So if is not equivalent to the Savvy Rest layer, it's because it may be better.

FYI, I spoke to Shawn 3 or 4 times on the phone before actually placing my order.

Hopefully I answered all your questions.

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Last edit: by LAsleeper.

Re: Latex Configuration Help 18 Jul 2012 18:28 #7

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Hi LAsleeper and r_letch,

That being said, here's my two cents until you call him: I don't think SleepEZ has a blended Dunlop option, and I don't think this is something you would want, anyway (Shawn or Phoenix can confirm this for you).


This is correct and as you outlined he has a choice between "organic" and 100% natural Dunlop and blended or 100% natural Talalay. While blended Dunlop is a higher quality material than many other types of foam ... in the "latex world" it is the least desirable in terms of quality and performance. If price alone is the only or most important factor, it may still be a better choice than other foam options but I personally would stick with 100% natural or "organic" Dunlop or either type of Talalay.

They also have a choice of suppliers which may have some differences in their ILD so I would talk with them about the ILD specifics of their choices.

Other than that ... LAsleeper did a great job of outlining the options they offer and I agree that blended talalay is usually considered better "value" than the 100% natural because of better durability and pressure relieving qualities, especially in the softer versions, than 100% natural Talalay. Of course it's also a lower cost material which is an added bonus.

As LAsleeper also mentioned ... Shawn is also very knowledgeable, helpful, patient, and informative and is well worth talking to in terms of finding out the specifics of what they offer and the many options available to you. The "horses mouth" is usually the best source of more specific information (sorry Shawn ... I'm really not calling you a horse :))

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: Latex Configuration Help 18 Jul 2012 22:32 #8

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Phoenix and LASleeper,

Thanks for the clarification! I was confused on the Dunlop options.
I called Shawn and ordered the Natural 10,000 - Natural Dunlop Firm/Natural Dunlop Medium/Blended Talalay soft split layers, so we could swap some if needed.


Phoenix,

I have one more question. Can we re-use or old mattress protector or do you advise purchasing a new one? Our current Mattress protector is 4 years old.

Thanks
r_letch

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Re: Latex Configuration Help 18 Jul 2012 23:17 #9

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Hi r_letch,

Congratulations on your new mattress :)

I have one more question. Can we re-use or old mattress protector or do you advise purchasing a new one? Our current Mattress protector is 4 years old.


This would probably depend on the type of protector but if it's still in good condition and doing what you want it to do ... then there should be no problem. Depending on the type of protector though ... it may or may not have the best (for you) combination of qualities (effect on the mattress layers, breathability and temperature control, and water resistance) that you would otherwise want with a new latex mattress. If it has the combination of these three qualities that you prefer though ... then I see no reason not to use it if it's still in good shape.

Phoenix
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Re: Latex Configuration Help 19 Jul 2012 15:02 #10

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r_letch,

I totally disagree with Phoenix (OMG has this ever been said on this site???!!!)
You just spent $1900 or so on a beautiful, brand-new mattress with many natural, and all non-toxic materials.

Why would you want to put a 4-year-old protector that has been absorbing the off-gassing of your last mattress, your body sweat and oils, and put it as the closest layer to you, except for your sheets? Hopefully, you've been washing it from time to time, but who knows what's still left in the protector? It's kind of like washing your feet, then putting on dirty socks.

Sure there is no "problem" in using it, but why not take the $99 you saved with your "The Mattress Underground" discount and treat yourselves and your new mattress to a brand-new protector?

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