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Vancouver, BC 30 Sep 2011 01:38 #1

  • Kroppe
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Hi,

I've recently become overwhelmed with the selection of mattress choices from major and local stores here in Vancouver. I laid on an iComfort Insight and love it, but I don't like the sticker price or the "deal" that was offered (1450 for queen/boxspring/frame). My haggling skill is also pretty poor when I go alone ;P.

I found two "off-brand" products that I am not sure the quality. One mattress was imported by Primo International from south east Asia. It was described as having 2.5" layer of 5lb foam ontop of polyurethane. ~Queen $500 including base and frame.
The other mattress was made by Renelle - Visco 5400. ~Queen $1200.

Guidance? I am 5'6 ~ 130lb. I typically sleep on my back.

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Re: Vancouver, BC 30 Sep 2011 18:17 #2

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Hi Kroppe,

I would tend to be a little hesitant on the Primo. On their website all of their mattresses use 3lb or less memory foam and while there are many listed on the internet at either 4.75 or 5 lb ... I would tend toward skepticism, especially if I don't know who manufactures their foam and not knowing if it is CertiPur certified. There are some local manufacturers that would be well worth including in your research.

www.discountfoam.ca/ Local foam shop in Vancouver that also makes and sells foam mattresses. Has talalay and dunlop layers available in different firmness levels, memory foam, and any quality of polyform you may wish. Also has various cover options available. Has mattresses and layers available for testing. He is very knowledgeable about all types of foam and believes in simplicity (which I like). Some good value.

www.renelle.com/mattresses.htm Wholesale manufacturer in Surrey. They make a range of good quality foam mattresses including memory foam and latex mattresses sold under their Viscoform, Natures Embrace and Noizzless lines that are sold through the retail outlets listed in their retail store finder.

www.majesticfuton.com/ Retailer in Vancouver. They are a main retail store for Renelle. They are knowledgeable and experienced and carry a range of mattresses from Renelle including organic Dunlop latex mattresses, latex/polyfoam hybrids, memory foam mattresses, and polyfoam mattresses that would certainly be well worth considering.

www.rcb.ca/ Local factory direct manufacturer in Surrey. They specialize in marine mattresses but they are also happy to make any kind of foam mattress a customer may wish using high grade polyfoam, memory foam, or latex. they have examples that can be tested in different layers to get to the build and feel you want. Well worth including in your research.

www.kasonmattress.com/ Local manufacturer in Vancouver. They make a range of pocket coil mattresses using 5 zone pocket coils and polyfoam, memory foam, microcoil, and latex comfort layers. Make sure you can find out the density of any memory foam or polyfoam layers in their mattresses.

www.inbedorganics.com/ Local manufacturer in Vancouver who produces high quality organic and natural Dunlop latex mattresses. They have a list of outlets on their site. The owner Jen is great to talk with and committed to the organic cause and is determined to help educate people about the benefits of using organic materials in their mattresses although I would do some value comparisons.

snugsleep.com/ Local wholesale manufacturer in North Vancouver which has a list of outlets that sell them on their site. They are made with 100% natural Dunlop latex. High quality but also a little pricey and another one where I would do some good value comparisons.

foamandhomedecor.com/index.php Local factory direct manufacturer in Surrey who manufactures a range of memory foam and latex mattresses. They use 3, 4, and 5 lb memory foam (and I would avoid 3 lbs). These can be customized for preference.

www.foamshop.com/ North Vancouver, Port Coquitlam, Kitsilano, Langley, Richmond, Abbotsford, Burnaby, Surrey. They carry polyfoam mattresses made with 1.8 lb, 2.0lb, and 2.5 lb polyfoam (none of these are low quality and would be good, better, best) and convoluted polyfoam along with 3 lb and 5 lb memory foam that can be added as a topper but not as part of the mattress (I would avoid 3 lb memory foam). They can also mix and match their foams. They also have a choice of cover. They can get latex but would have to special order it and didn't know what type it was and didn't appear to be very knowledgeable about it. They have "fair" prices but there may be better so I would make some good comparisons.

vancouverfoam.com/ Another local foam shop in Vancouver that also makes mattresses including latex (Dunlop and Talalay), memory foam, and polyfoam that may be well worth considering.

www.northshorelinens.com/product-category/natural-latex-products/ North Vancouver. They carry a line of 100% natural latex mattresses that use 100% natural Dunlop made by Arpico and have very reasonable prices.

www.innovativesleep.ca/ Retailer in Surrey. I talked with Dave one of the owners here and they carry Nature's Embrace organic latex, Restonic (including latex and memory foam) and two sided Eclipse mattresses. Low key approach to selling mattresses and will provide or find out any information about the quality of the materials that their customers need to make an informed choice.

wrmattress.com/ Retailer in Surrey. They carry Savvy Rest (component latex mattresses) along with Ironman mattresses, Kingsdown, and Restwell. I have talked with them and they are knowledgeable about mattress materials and told me that they would find out any information that their customers need to know about the type and quality/density of the materials in their mattresses.

www.greenworksbuildingsupply.com Retailer in Vancouver, BC. They carry Sleeptek mattresses which are a line of high quality latex mattresses that use certified organic Dunlop latex. They are transparent about the materials and components in their mattresses.

www.dreamdesigns.ca/ Retailer in Vancouver, BC. They carry Snugsleep latex mattresses and their own line of Dream Bed futons.

mclearys.com/ Retailer in Langley, BC. They carry Snugsleep and Renelle latex mattresses. Their private label Sleep Fitness line may also be worth considering if they will provide the specs of the foam layers in the mattresses.

www.mrmattress.ca/ Retailer in Vancouver. They carry a range of locally made two sided innerspring mattresses but make sure you can find out the density of all the foam layers in their mattresses before making any purchase so you can confirm that they meet the foam quality guidelines here and that there are no lower quality materials or weak links that could compromise the durability or useful life of the mattress.

sleepshop.ca/ Retailer in Vancouver, Richmond, Langley, Abbotsford. Their Renelle, Natura, and ZedBed mattresses may be worth considering here.

showerking.com/index.php Factory direct manufacturer in Chilliwack. They make mostly Murphy bed mattresses but also have a range of one and two sided polyfoam mattresses using continuous coils and good quality polyfoam (2 lb) and carry latex toppers as well. Can also custom build.

Being a back sleeper I would be looking at a comfort layer in the range of 2-3" (tending towards 2) as a thicker layer may cause alignment issues (hips sinking down too far causing lower back issues). Typically memory foam can use a slightly thicker layer than latex because you will tend to sink deeper overall into memory foam than latex. Because of your lighter weight ... I would tend towards softer/thinner latex if you go in that direction. Memory foam as a whole will all be soft (15 ILD or less) even though some of it will feel firm initially until it warms up. Lower density memory foam will likely be less temperature sensitive but will also allow you to "go through" more easily and in thinner layers may not offer as much pressure relief if that is an issue for you. The support layer underneath should be firm enough to hold up your heavier parts (hips) and how firm this needs to be will depend to some degree on your weight distribution.

Hope this helps.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: Vancouver, BC 07 Jul 2012 01:24 #3

Thank you for your reply! I called several of the places which you directed me to in the Vancouver foam and mattress stores.

To update the list: Parkers is now closed and several on the list are not in Vancouver but in Surrey, which is actually like going to another city 2 hours away, so I ruled those out. A couple of stores had excellent latex natural mattresses except the prices were between $2800 and $3500 for a queen.

For those of you in Vancouver, I visited Discount Foam on Fraser St and was met with a very knowledgeable person. You are right that his latex options are good value. He no longer carries the blended Talalay but has the Dunlops in 3 kinds of firmness, simplicity itself at 6 inches with a cotton cover. Recommended! I would have bought one on the spot if the soft Dunlop had not been too firm for me. He does not believe in layering since he says if the layers are glued, the top layer only (which is most prone to wear) cannot be replaced.

I will most likely purchase the 3 layered blended Talalay at Majestic as it was the most comfortable. A few more questions:

1. Are you saying that the blended 70% natural and 30% synthetic Talalay is as safe as the 100% all natural latex?
There is no gasing-off issue or other health concerns?

2. If I asked the store not to glue on the top soft comfort layer and just put it in place, how realistic is it to replace only that layer? Seems complicated to get that layer out and a new one in again into that tight space, maybe having to bring the entire mattress into the store, more delivery charges, etc. Are there any statistics on the approximate lifetime of a 2 inch soft blended Talalay comfort layer?

Thanks

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Re: Vancouver, BC 07 Jul 2012 02:46 #4

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Hi Julie,

Thanks for the update on Parkers. I last talked with them only a couple of months ago so this must have been fairly recent. I'll keep an eye on what the "changes" are that they are referring to and to see if they will be re-opening.

My brother actually lives in Surrey and my daughter lives in Vancouver (UBC Graduate) and I was born and raised in Victoria so the lower mainland is like a second "home base" for me :)

I usually list manufacturers or better outlets within about 50 miles or so (and sometimes 100) because there are usually so few better outlets or manufacturers in an area that it's often worth an hour or so of travel time to go there. It may be worth a phone call to the surrey outlets because I know at least one of them has some good prices (although they may not give them out on the phone).

For those of you in Vancouver, I visited Discount Foam on Fraser St and was met with a very knowledgeable person. You are right that his latex options are good value. He no longer carries the blended Talalay but has the Dunlops in 3 kinds of firmness, simplicity itself at 6 inches with a cotton cover. Recommended! I would have bought one on the spot if the soft Dunlop had not been too firm for me. He does not believe in layering since he says if the layers are glued, the top layer only (which is most prone to wear) cannot be replaced.


Thanks for the feedback on them. I also enjoyed talking with him. There have been a lot of supplier changes in the Vancouver market which has caused some turmoil there and I suspect this may be the reason why they are no longer carrying Talalay (they still were in April). He has a good point and there are also other manufacturers who have the same opinion although there are others who think differently. There are advantages and disadvantages to every type of construction but it's certainly true that a separate topper used for a comfort layer (if it's needed) can be replaced more easily if it wears out faster than the core of the mattress and this is one of the advantages for that type of construction.

1. Are you saying that the blended 70% natural and 30% synthetic Talalay is as safe as the 100% all natural latex?
There is no gasing-off issue or other health concerns?


They both have kind of a mild "vanilla" smell at first but they have both passed the same very stringent testing for VOC's and any harmful chemicals in the mattress. The actual standard is Oeko-Tex standard 100 class 1 (which is safe for close contact with babies) and you can see what they test for here . So yes they are both equally safe and the blended has the advantage of being less costly and more durable in softer ILD's.

2. If I asked the store not to glue on the top soft comfort layer and just put it in place, how realistic is it to replace only that layer? Seems complicated to get that layer out and a new one in again into that tight space, maybe having to bring the entire mattress into the store, more delivery charges, etc. Are there any statistics on the approximate lifetime of a 2 inch soft blended Talalay comfort layer?


There are zip covers and mattresses that use exchangeable layers where layer replacements are simple but if the mattress cover is sewn then it would need a manufacturer to change out the layer and re-sew the cover unless someone had the ability to do this themselves and it's fairly specialized with a tape edge machine. There are no statistics on the lifetime of a specific layer because durability depends on a wide range of different factors (you can see the may factors that affect durability in post #2 here ) and the degree of sensitivity that someone may have to softening before they were out of their comfort and support "range of tolerance".

A topper will not last as long as a similar layer inside a mattress because it flexes more independently and is more subject to the mechanical compression that wears out a foam. the good news though is that latex is the most durable of all the foams (polyfoam, memory foam, latex foam) and it would be reasonable to assume that it will outlast any other material in a similar layer. It's also true that softer layers will compress more (mechanical compression again) so they will wear faster than firmer layers. Lighter people will wear out a foam more slowly than heavier people. A good quality latex topper though should last a good 5-10 years (depending on all the variables) and a good quality latex mattress ... even with a softer comfort layer ... should last a good 10 - 20 years. These are probably conservative numbers but I hesitate to be more specific because it's not really possible with all the variables. Softening is probably the limiting factor much more than the actual breakdown of the latex even though it will soften much more slowly than other foams.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: Vancouver, BC 07 Jul 2012 10:58 #5

Is the Oeko-Tex testing for latex mandatory in Canada? So far, not one retailer has produced paperwork for certification but many say they are certified and tested.

Thanks

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Re: Vancouver, BC 07 Jul 2012 12:14 #6

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Hi Julie,

Is the Oeko-Tex testing for latex mandatory in Canada?


No it's not mandatory in any country. Oeko-Tex is an independent certification that is available to foam and textile manufacturers and it's one of several certification standards that are commonly seen. It's generally up to the producer of the mattress materials, not the mattress manufacturer or the retail outlet, to certify their materials and decide which one to use or which is most appropriate or desirable. If a mattress manufacturer or retailer makes a claim though that the materials in their mattresses are certified ... then it would only make sense that they would also supply information about which materials carry which of the many types of certification even if they don't have the certification documents themselves.

Oeko-Tex is used by both major talalay foam producers (Latex International based in the US and and Radium based in the Netherlands) so if you see Talalay latex it has been certified through Oeko-Tex standard 100 . You can see what they test for here .

Dunlop latex on the other hand has dozens of manufacturers around the world and they tend to use other certifications which include tests for NR purity (because with Dunlop the NR content is very desirable). In these cases you will often see certifications from Eco Institute , or from LGA .

All of these certifications have logos which a foam manufacturer can display when they have passed the tests and these logos are both competitive products and desirable by different types of manufacturers as a marketing advantage.

While each country has certain laws and consumer safety regulations in place .. these private testing organizations are often more stringent because of the consumer's recognition that the safety laws in many countries are not as strict as they should be. If the manufacturer of the foam is known, then their website can be checked for any certifications it may have.

There are also various types of organic certifications ... some more meaningful than others ... but organic is not so much about safety of products but more about certifying that the production of a product (primarily agricultural products) at different stages followed organic farming methods.

As a side note as well ... safety is never an absolute and the degree of exposure and the time of exposure to certain substances (natural or otherwise) can affect different people differently. Most of these standards would assure the vast majority of the population that a product is safe the vast majority of the time. There is always a small percentage of the population though with conditions like MCS (Multiple Chemical Sensitivity) for example who will react to certain substances (or combinations of substances) in amounts that almost nobody else has any problem with and for these people their own personal research into solutions can become the most time consuming and important part of their lives. For these people ... life can be very difficult because tiny amounts of these substances are endemic everywhere. In the most extreme cases they live in houses that have been specially constructed or "cleaned" including everything that is in the house and are often housebound.

So in essence ... both types of latex (Talalay and Dunlop) is generally considered to be "safe" if it is made by a known and reputable latex foam manufacturer. It is generally the foam of choice (the three types of foam most often used in mattresses are polyurethane foam, memory foam, and latex foam) for those who are the most concerned with harmful VOC's (many VOC's are not harmful and are a natural occurrence) and chemical sensitivities. For those who equate "safety" with "natural" or "organic" (which is another very complex and often misunderstood subject) and this is a primary part of their "value equation" ... then they would be most likely to choose 100% natural latex and would typically choose Dunlop over Talalay because it generally contains a higher natural latex content.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: Vancouver, BC 07 Jul 2012 13:15 #7

Thanks again for the detailed and informative response. :)

Julie

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Vancouver Canada dealers? 21 Sep 2012 03:03 #8

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Hi, I'm new to your site but find your responses very interesting. Can you recommend any quaIity mattress suppliers in Vancouver, BC, Canada? We're looking for a good quality, reasonably priced (who isn't) mattress. My wife is a back sleeper, and I start out on my side and usually wake up on my back. We were looking at a Sealy Optimum Joyful from Sleep Country in Vancouver, but your comments about the "S" brands has me wondering. I've taken note of your recent posts (July 21/12 to "Primetime" ) about the Sealy Destiny model . I don't know if the Destiny and the "Joyful" are similar, with different names.

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Re: Vancouver Canada dealers? 21 Sep 2012 03:27 #9

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Hi Pilgrim1942,

I'm not sure if the Joyful is the same but I can tell you I wouldn't consider any mattress where I didn't know the quality of the materials and layering inside it. The odds are pretty good that the Joyful has some low density memory foam and the super soft it uses is also likely to be on the low end of the polyfoam density scale. The biggest issue with the major brands (Sealy (incl Stearns & Foster), Simmons, Serta, Kingsdown, Comfort solutions (incl King Koil), Spring Air, and many of the other larger brands) is their lack of disclosure about the materials they use and they replace quality information with marketing stories. This is one of the main reasons for the first guideline in this article .

There are some good choices in the Vancouver area and the some of the better ones that I'm aware of are listed in post #2 here .

I switched your post from the Charlotte thread to the Vancouver thread to save any confusion.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: Vancouver, BC 24 Jun 2013 21:46 #10

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Hi Phoenix,

Just joined the site..Great information..I never realized all the health issues not sleeping on the right mattress can have on the body..

Having read some of the information you recommended, I soon realized all the past mistakes I've made when purchasing mattresses! I am from Vancouver, BC and I am going to see the guys you recommended at discount foam..I now understand how different sleeping positions need different types of mattresses..I'm a stomach sleeper/side sleeper and lastly a back sleeper..All in descending order.7 years ago my wife and I purchased a $5000.00 memory foam mattress set (soooo nice), it was so comfortable but unfortunately, not right for me..My Lower back pain was horrible and just kept getting worse..We kept the mattress for almost a year (I tried).The company was really great and allowed me to trade it in for a 6 inch Polyurethane, Ortho-support, firm, king size model and they included a 3 inch memory foam topper.The mattress has a wool side cover and a cotton side cover for winter time and summer time use..The value of the Poly mattress was alot less then what we paid for our king size memory foam bed but at least they allowed us to return it for something else.I couldn't use the topper on the firm mattress as my lower back pain would immediately start all over again...I loved the soft cocoon feel of the memory foam and really wished it would have worked for me!

I agree with your 3 "P" philosophy when it comes to mattresses. I now realize that my hips cannot sink into the mattress as this was the cause of my lower back pain (alignment problem). I find that the foam mattress I'm sleeping on is working for the alignment issue but is not very comfortable and is causing pressure point problems (shoulders/hips) which in turn are effecting my sleep/body..So now I am trying to find a topper that will still allow support but allow me some relief on the pressure point issues.

A bit about myself, I'm 50 years old, very active, a little arthritis in my lower back and hips, 5'11 and 170 lbs. My wife is a back sleeper and loves the softer mattress feel..She loved the memory foam mattress and has been a trooper sleeping on the firm mattress with me all these years..This time we are going to look at a topper for my side of the bed and one for her side..

When speaking with the foam guys, they were suggesting another foam topper..Do you think that would be the way to go? Or do you think a 2 inch firm/extra firm latex topper may be the way to go? I called a couple of the latex mattress stores you recommended in Vancouver but couldn't see myself spending $1000.00 on a 2 inch, king size, latex topper..For that price and a few hundred dollars more, I could by a whole top of the line king bed from your recommended dealer at Northwest beds..I think the foam guys will have a more practical price when it comes to mattress toppers..If not, I may check out Northwest beds in Delta and see what I can find in a new mattress...

Do you have any suggestions? I think after reading your site and reflecting, I have a pretty good idea of the balance I will have to navigate to get the right type of mattress/topper..It probably isn't going to be easy as a predominately stomach/side sleeper though but at least I can feel a little more equipped to know what I am looking for and where to look!

Thanks for your site!

Regards,

Mark from Canada

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