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Pure Latex Bliss Beautiful configured to SleepEZ 13000? 14 Jul 2012 14:56 #1

  • ptclearlady
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I am new to the Mattress Underground and have found the site to be highly informative. Because of the info and the numerous references, I have been surfing the web for a week reviewing the various Latex manufacturing and retail options available. I have also been to local retailers and have tried Kingsdown, Englander, Sealy I-Comfort, and finally Pure Latex Bliss. The differences are amazing and the degree of "information disclosure" or lack thereof is daunting. This forum is a welcome find!!!

Having reached a decision that I want to make an investment in a latex mattress, I am now faced with decision time. Some history:

Last year my husband was determined that we needed a new king mattress and purchased a SLEEP NUMBER BED---which he loves
and, I have yet to "find my number"! I have been all over the place with it from 100 down to 45 and still toss and turn, waking up multiple times throughout the night, and have severe pain in my shoulders and the hip pointers on both sides of my body. My husband can fall asleep on anything and never wake up---it can be hard as a rock or soft as his old worn-out recliner. I also have had two shoulder surgeries on the right shoulder and am in need of a full shoulder replacement so I am looking for pressure point relief and a full night's sleep.

Me: Age 62 - 5'6" height & 160 pounds ---- predominantly a side sleeper who likes a soft pillow that can be scrunched!
Hubby: Age 67- 5'11" & 190 pounds --- predominantly back sleeper/side who likes a very firm pillow & is a snorer!

The most comfortable beds I have tried were the Pure Latex Bliss----in the Nature & the Beautiful models. The financial investment for the King Size is in the area of $4000, which is significant. My preference was the Beautiful---even though it was softer, I did not feel like I would be trapped into the top and not be able to turn over. But, I don't want to end up with a too-soft mattress at the end of the day, which is why I like the option of layers that SleepEZ seems to allow.

I am looking for some advice and counsel on configuration of the SleepEZ mattress to get the comparable PLB feeling. Should I go with the EZ10000 or the EZ13000? Also, I liked the cover of the PLB---really quite nice....which EZ cover would be comparable?

I am ready to make a decision.
HELP!!!!
And, THANK YOU!

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Re: Pure Latex Bliss Beautiful configured to SleepEZ 13000? 14 Jul 2012 16:43 #2

  • phoenix
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Hi ptclearlady,

The PLB mattresses as you mention are very nice and are clearly better value than most of the mattresses you will find in a mainstream outlet. They are also owned by Latex International which produces and sells much of the Talalay latex used in mattresses in North America which means that the material costs are lower and the profit margins are very high. This is on of the reasons retailers like them because they have "better than average" value in spite of their higher cost and also have a very good margin. This also means that while the advertised prices are controlled by the manufacturer ... there is often room to bargain on the price.

"Targeting" the performance and feel of another mattress can be very difficult because there are so many factors involved. It's usually much more accurate to set PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and preferences) as the "target" and then to measure or "rate" every mattress against this. Of course that's not possible with a mattress that you can't test in person so you would have to "approximate" how close each would come to your desired PPP and whether it may be closer or further away than a mattress you have tested.

The type of latex used, the ILD of every layer, the thickness of every layer and the mattress as a whole, and the order of the layering along with the type of cover and even whether the layers are glued or loose will all have some effect on the final performance and feel of the mattress. Each person may also may be more sensitive to different layers so if say a middle layer has a different thickness or ILD then one person may notice a larger difference while another whose body type and sleeping style doesn't sink into the mattress in the same way may not notice much difference at all and may be more sensitive to any differences in the top layer.

So based on this ... it becomes possible to see how the PLB models may compare to a SleepEz option and to "estimate" how close they may be to each other.

PLB Beautiful vs SleepEz 13000:

The Beautiful is 12" of blended Talalay latex so the "closest" comparison in terms of total thickness would be the SleepEz 13000 model. A mattress this thick isn't usually necessary at all for someone of your height and weight but for the sake of comparison this would be the most equivalent model.

The Top layer of the PLB is 3" of 19 ILD Talalay.

The "standard" top layer of the SleepEz 13000 is 22-24 ILd Talalay so it would be a little firmer.

Firmer would typically mean a little less pressure relieving but a little more "supportive" meaning it can hold weight with a little less compression. Both are in the range of "soft" that most people would use in a comfort layer especially for side sleeping. Of course you could ask the manufacturer to use 19 ILD but this may not work as well as the standard 24 (or it could work better) which is why duplicating a mattress rather than PPP may end up excluding better options than you have tested.

The next layer of the Beautiful is 2" of 24 ILD.

The next layer of the 13000 would typically be 3" of medium (3" more inches of soft under soft would be too much softness for most people). A thicker middle layer generally acts a little softer but the ILD of their medium would be in the range of 30 - 32 which would be firmer. Overall this middle layer would tend to be firmer than the Beautiful.

Finally the support core of the Beautiful is 6" of 36 ILD with another inch of ultra firm Talalay under it as a stabilization layer.

The SleepEz firm would be in the range of 38 - 40 so two 3" layers of this would be slightly firmer and more supportive but comparable. Of course you could use another 3" layer of medium and then a 3" layer of firm which would make things a little softer in the base layers. This may compensate a bit for the difference in the firmer middle layer but layers deeper in the mattress have less effect on what most people feel than layers closer to the surface.

So while none of these configurations would "match" the PLB ... the SleepEz combination of 3" soft (possibly with a request for one step softer than their "standard" if you believed it was necessary), Medium (firmer than the PLB), Medium (a bit softer than the PLB support core), and firm (a bit firmer than the PLB support core) may come the closest but this would depend on which layers you were most sensitive to. (NOTE: this reply was based on the second version of the PLB and if you scroll down to post #12 you will find the closest approximation to the current Beautiful layering)


PLB Nature vs SleepEz 10000:

The Nature has 10" of latex but the bottom stabilization layer is not nearly as relevant in the feel so it would be most comparable to the SleepEz 1000 in terms of overall thickness.

The nature has 2" of 19 ILD andthen an inch of 28 ILD as the first 3" comfort layer

The "Standard" top " layer of the SleepEz 10000 would again be 3" of 22-24 ILD.

These would be roughly comparable as an "average" ILD of the first 3" but would feel different because the PLB would go from softer with initial compression to firmer with deeper compression then the sleepEz which only has a single ILD surface layer. How similar this felt would depend on the differences in how each person ank into the top 3" and which layers they felt the most. They would be very "roughly" comparable though with the PLB having an "average" ILD of 22.

The PLB now has 6" of 36 ILD while the SleepEz would typically use Medium (30-32 ILD which is softer than the PLB) over firm (38 - 40 ILD which is firmer than the PLB). Of course you could also choose two mediums (softer overall) or two firms (firmer overall). In the same way that the PLB comfort layers would have multiple layers which would affect the feel of increasing compression ... the standard M/F sleepEz support base would also have a wider softer to firmer range as it was compressed.

So again ... there would be several options in how you could "balance" the "diverging" or "converging" differences between the mattresses to increase the odds that the 10000 would be closer to the PLB Nature for a particular person or that the 13000 would be closer to the PLB Beautiful for a particular person. This takes a combination of technical knowledge, intuition, and experience with a particular mattress.


Differences that apply to both:

The SleepEz has loose layers which would act very slightly softer than the same layers glued together.

SleepEz also offers two different covers. One is a stretch knit quilted with wool (which is the fire barrier) which would have a slightly firming effect on the feel of the latex inside than their second option which is a thick unquilted stretch knit more similar to the PLB (although people who have compared the two have said that the SleepEz is higher quality). You can see two pictures of it in the attachments to post #33 here (although it's actually more off white and the color was distorted in the picture).


I wanted to go into some detail to highlight the difficulty of "matching" two mattresses taking into account both the objective differences of how the different layers will interact with different people and also the more subjective differences which different people will perceive which are far more difficult to quantify. Mattress layering and it's effect on different people can also be far more complex than most people would believe. In other words ... using the PLB models would be a "guideline" for what you need and prefer rather than a "target" would generally be a more reliable approach.

What I normally suggest to avoid the almost impossible (and frustrating) job of trying to imagine how a particular mattress may feel based on specs that are somewhat similar but different enough to make a noticeable difference is to "report" the results of your testing to the manufacturer you are considering and use their many years of knowledge and expertise and their specific knowledge about their particular mattresses and how they have worked with their many customers (many of whom may be similar to you or who may have "tested" the same mattresses) to guide you rather than trying to "duplicate" or "design" a mattress based on specs that you may not have the experience to really "interpret" in a meaningful way. This is normally best done on a conversation with the manufacturer that can go into more details about your body thpe, sleeping style, and the subjective preferences you have and the results of your testing.

Most of the SleepEz customers use a "standard" layering based on body type and sleeping style which can be adjusted based on personal testing of somewhat similar mattresses. While this would not "duplicate" a particular mattress ... they would know which combination would have the greatest odds of coming closest even though none of them may be exact matches. Because pressure relief and support are ""opposites" ... the differences may even be an improvement for your needs and preferences over what you have tested.

In the 10,000 model ... most people of your weight and height would use a S/M/F layering unless something indicated a strong preference or need for something else. Alternatives may be S/F/F or S/F/X-firm. People that are heavier would typically use M/F/F or M/F/XF.

In the 13000 model ... the guidance would also normally point to standardized and progressive layering with some alterations to take into account any particular experiences in testing or preferences that may "point to" some changes.

These standardized layerings or "adjusted" standardized layerings based on the outcome of a more detailed conversation with the manufacturer (in this case either Shawn or Jeremy) have the best odds of success for the vast majority of people.

So the goal of this post is to first "congratulate" you for taking the time and effort to test local mattresses that have known layerings and can act as a guideline for your choices. The second is to "work with" the manufacturer to help you interpret your testing and how it may relate to the options that are available to you and which of them may be your best choice. A conversation with them about the differences between the 10000 and the 13000 and whether the more expensive version may be necessary or desirable would also be worthwhile. Thicker would not be necessary based on your "needs" but may be attractive based on your "preferences" and "feel". Both versions can provide all the pressure relief and support you may need but with a different "feel" attached and with a different "range of response" to movement and sleeping positions.

I hope this helps to both explain the complexity of various comparisons and how different "pathways" and combinations can either diverge from or converge on a "target" and also to give you a way to bypass it by working closely with the manufacturer so that their knowledge, experience, and expertise with the particular mattresses they make and their customer base can help you make your best choices without the need to become an "expert" in mattress layering. What they already know you don't have to learn :)

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: Pure Latex Bliss Beautiful configured to SleepEZ 13000? 14 Jul 2012 17:27 #3

  • ptclearlady
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Your response has my brain whirling!:ohmy: This will certainly make my conversation with SLEEP-EZ much better and gives me lots of options to consider. I also followed the link you referred to above regarding the Cover and read the entire thread which served to further educate me. I appreciate the time you take in all of your responses and the candor regarding the good, the bad, and the not so good!

THANK YOU!

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Re: Pure Latex Bliss Beautiful configured to SleepEZ 13000? 14 Jul 2012 19:52 #4

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Hi ptclearlady,

Your response has my brain whirling!


Knowing who to trust and who has the knowledge and skills to provide great service and guidance and "save" you from having to do all the more technical research and learn how to be a "mattress expert" yourself is well over half the battle. The other 'lesser half" is giving them the type of information that can help them help you better.

As long as you have enough information to ask better questions and make more sense of the answers (and "scanning" the overviews in the mattresses section of the site will give you all you need to know in most cases) ... then you can leave the rest to the people who know how to help you best. they will know the questions to ask you and what they need to help you make good decisions.

Working with a better outlet or directly with the manufacturer who "knows their stuff" can avoid "information overload" and what is called "paralysis by analysis" and turn mattress shopping from an "ordeal" into a joy ... not to mention help you find a better quality mattress at a much better price :)

Phoenix
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Re: Pure Latex Bliss Beautiful configured to SleepEZ 13000? -- Received SLEEPEZ July 20,2012 21 Jul 2012 10:43 #5

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Just wanted to provide followup on my mattress purchase......I note that many people ask questions and receive answers and then disappear
you don't know whether they actually purchased a mattress or their experience in doing so.

I had done a lot of research via your mattress forum and the internet as well as visiting several storefront mattress galleries and decided to go with the SLEEPEZ 13000. I called to place my order on Saturday afternoon July 14. Shawn answered the phone himself and also called me back a bit later with more information. He was outstanding to deal with and helped me configure the right layers for a King-size bed with different layers for each side of the bed. Husband was X-Firm, Firm, Medium, Soft and my side was Firm, Medium, Soft, Soft. I placed the order and also received the additional 5% discount for being an active member of this Forum. I also ordered the stretchy quilted cover that is offered as an option and I am very happy with it. For mattress protection, I ordered the St.Dornier Wool Protector----very high quality!

On Sunday, I received an email telling me that the mattress was ready to be shipped. On Monday, I received tracking numbers and knew that 4 boxes were placed into the hands of UPS. I was able to track the shipment daily and knew exactly where it was----Arizona, Mississippi, then North Carolina! 4 Boxes were delivered by UPS and carried up steps and placed right next to my back door under the porch. All boxes were in great condition---no damage.

My husband and I moved the boxes to the bedroom----and began to unpack them. The layers were vacuum-sealed in a dark gray plastic and then inserted into very heavy grade clear plastic bags to protect the latex from damage. Finally they were put into cardboard boxes that were sealed very firmly with metal staples. I was surprised that there were no instructions but that did not bother me because I had looked at several YOU TUBE videos showing the assembly of latex beds purchased from the internet and knew what was supposed to happen. Instructions would be helpful to someone who has not watched a video. SLEEPEZ had clearly marked the outside of each box with the contents---so you knew which one held the mattress cover which was step #1. And, we began to assemble the layers. Getting the first layer "waved" onto the cover and the cover stretched out with no wrinkles underneath is probably the most important step. I wondered for a very brief moment if we had the right size cover when it appeared that the latex was longer than the cover! I double-checked the cover and it was clearly marked EK-13000 (Eastern King-13000). After re-straightening the cover, the layers went into the cover beautifully.

Each layer of latex is clearly labelled with the firmness level so assembling the mattress in the configuration that Shawn and I had decided upon was easy. The mattress cover zipped around the layers snuggly with no tugging, pushing, or pulling. And, this particular cover is just as nice or nicer than the Pure Latex Bliss cover, which I really liked. Then, we put the St. Dornier Wool Protector over the mattress---I ordered their 16-inch protector which fit beautifully around the SLEEPEZ 13000.

We slept on the bed last night for the first time and it felt wonderful. I am very hopeful that this purchase will be one that I look back on many years from now and say that it was one of the best purchases I have ever made. The transaction was easy. The customer interaction with Shawn and Jeremy at SleepEZ was positive. And, the assembly was not difficult. So far---So good.

Hope my followup post did not bore you to tears.....I wanted to provide feedback that might be useful for someone else wondering about making a purchase of this magnitude over the internet. Your mattress forum and your personal responses and knowledge helped me tremendously. I knew the questions to ask and felt like I had the information to make an intelligent decision.

Thank you!:cheer:

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Re: Pure Latex Bliss Beautiful configured to SleepEZ 13000? -- Received SLEEPEZ July 20,2012 21 Jul 2012 17:23 #6

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hi ptclearlady,

What a great review and I appreciate the clarity and detail about the whole process that led from your first conversations to having the mattress set up in your home!

Hope my followup post did not bore you to tears.....I wanted to provide feedback that might be useful for someone else wondering about making a purchase of this magnitude over the internet. Your mattress forum and your personal responses and knowledge helped me tremendously. I knew the questions to ask and felt like I had the information to make an intelligent decision.


Not only did it not "bore" me but it's great to have this kind of "real" information so that others who take the same journey have a guideline to go by. Like some of the other more detailed reviews that go into detail and include more of the process they went through rather than just the final outcome ... this is incredibly helpful and I believe that many others will both appreciate this and add it to their collection of meaningful information that can help them make better choices as well.

Thank you :)

Phoenix
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Re: Pure Latex Bliss Beautiful configured to SleepEZ 13000? -- Received SLEEPEZ July 20,2012 14 Sep 2012 02:26 #7

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Hello ptclearlady,

I am seriously considering the same setup. Have you been happy with the s/s/m/f? I also like the Beautiful, and my husband really liked the Nature in the PB line. Have you had to switch any of your layers?

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Re: Pure Latex Bliss Beautiful configured to SleepEZ 13000? -- Received SLEEPEZ July 20,2012 14 Sep 2012 13:53 #8

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Hello ptclearlady,

I am seriously considering the same setup. Have you been happy with the s/s/m/f? I also like the Beautiful, and my husband really liked the Nature in the PB line. Have you had to switch any of your layers?


My wife and I just purchased a 13000 model last month. We were also aiming for a PLB Beautiful emulation. We share the same top piece which is soft. Our under layers are as follows:

Top = Soft (1 shared big piece)

Mine - 6' 1" 215 (M/F/M)

Wife - 5' 10" 120 (M/M/S)

We are more than pleased with the purchase and really look forward to hitting the sack every night :-) All the aches and pains of the daily rigors completely disappear as soon as you lie down. We did pair this with a Reverie Deluxe adjustable frame. We also got the 4 way stretch cover and St. Dormier cotton pad.

If I was going to do it all over again, I wouldn't change a thing. We've also shifted some layers around and it doesn't take that long at all.

Cheers,
Bidzer

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Re: Pure Latex Bliss Beautiful configured to SleepEZ 13000? -- Received SLEEPEZ July 20,2012 14 Sep 2012 14:23 #9

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Bidzer, thanks for the heads up. Just wanted to make sure I understand
You both share the soft
Then under that she is m/m/s or s/m/m
You are under the soft m/f/m? Were you orginally m/m/f and you switched to m/f/m?

Thank you!!

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Re: Pure Latex Bliss Beautiful configured to SleepEZ 13000? -- Received SLEEPEZ July 20,2012 14 Sep 2012 15:58 #10

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Bidzer, thanks for the heads up. Just wanted to make sure I understand
You both share the soft
Then under that she is m/m/s or s/m/m
You are under the soft m/f/m? Were you orginally m/m/f and you switched to m/f/m?

Thank you!!


So starting at the top layer it goes:

Me = Soft, Medium, Firm, Medium (I had to move the firm layer to the 3rd layer as the medium didn't give me enough support at the third layer.)

Wife = Soft, Soft, Medium, Medium

We haven't had to send any layers back. Luckily we've been able to swap with each other if need be.

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