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Overwhelmed in Southwestern Ontario, Canada 25 Sep 2011 20:24 #1

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Hi, I am from the London area in Southwestern Ontario and was out today on the hunt for a new mattress. After checking stores such as Sears, The Brick, and Sleep Country, all I can say is that I am overwhelmed. During my travels I fell in love with the icomfort Revolution which is retailing for $2100 for the queen... plus an extra $1800 for the adjustable base (which I also love very much). Doing a search for reviews I stumbling upon this wonderful site. Now I am in a little dilemma, because it seems very possible to get the quality of the Revolution and base for much less money. Any advice on respectable retailers, or similar products to the Revolution in quality for less cost would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Drenton Pepin

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Re: Overwhelmed in Southwestern Ontario, Canada 26 Sep 2011 00:36 #2

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Hi Drenton,

Most of the mattress manufacturing in Ontario is concentrated in the GTA. It is also one of the most "cutthroat" areas in all of North America with a lot of "cheap" mattresses and material mixed in with the higher quality value products. In London, its the opposite issue as there is not a lot there at all ... whether you are looking at mattress manufacturers or retail outlets. There isn't even anything in Sleep Country, Leons, The Brick, United Furniture Warehouse or any of the others I saw that I would really even look at ... even just to test out mattresses.

There is one mattress manufacturer near you that I know of which is ...

www.sleepfactory.com/welcomep.htm They say they are factory direct but they also seem to carry some name brands so they may be a licensee as well or just adding other brands to their own to attract "walk in" business. If they really are factory direct they will be knowledgeable about the specs of the layers in their mattress including the memory foam density. They may also manufacture a mattress that "competes" with the iComfort in terms of layering and materials and if so this should have much better value. In any case I would likely pay them a visit.

NOTE: They are not making their own mattresses but carry other brands and their own house brand made by Endless comfort. They are a franchise group so the level of knowledge and service and the mattresses they carry on the floor will vary from store to store depending on the franchisee.

www.aamattress.com/MattressModels/tabid/487/Default.aspx This is a retail outlet that carries a fairly wide selection of mattresses. Many are made by Sleep Inn and Dreameasy ... local manufacturers in Toronto. They appear to have some good possibilities for better quality andor value mattresses.

eq3.com/cat-eq3/locator/region?reg=ON They carry some Natura mattresses which are a Canadian manufacturer. While they are certainly good quality and do have a memory foam model there, they are primarily known for their very wide range of latex mattresses. While the Natura brand is somewhat overpriced IMO ... they may be worth a look.

If none of these are suitable or have the value you are hoping to find ... then many of the online outlets in the US will ship to Canada and even with GST and any cross border costs ... your quality would likely be much higher and your value much better in many cases. There are also of course Canadian online outlets or manufacturers in areas other than London that can ship across the country.

Let me know if you make a few calls or visit these places and you still need more options. While local testing is always the most accurate way to purchase a mattress ... especially with memory foam ... once you have a good idea of the layering you prefer then it is much easier to purchase online should that be necessary or desirable.

Phoenix

PS: The Revolution has 2" of lower density memory foam over 1" of low quality soft polyfoam over 2.75" of higher density gel memory foam in the comfort layer. That's a lot of "soft foam" on top of a mattress both because this much thickness could well lead to you sleeping out of alignment and 3" of it is lower quality and would be much more prone to early breakdown.
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Re: Overwhelmed in Southwestern Ontario, Canada 04 Oct 2011 14:05 #3

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Hi Pheonix, thanks for the reply and great suggestions.

I finally had a chance to check out those locations in search of the same feeling the iComfort was giving me, here are my experiences with these particular locations;

Sleepfactory
They had one mattress made by Springwall which retailed for $999.99 for a queen, they only had a firm version in stock and it felt quite stiff in comparison to what the iComfort was, however it does come in a "soft", but the salesman also made it clear that the firm would soften up over time and last longer. This would be tied with my last choice out of the lot.

A&A Mattress
Dreameasy was there, relatively cheap in cost ($449 for a queen) and somewhat comfortable; it included on the spec sheet;
* 3" 5lb True VLS Memory Foam
* 7" High Density Foam for long lasting support
* Motion absorbing support base
However it would be tied with the mattress from Sleepfactory.

EQ3
This had a couple of different Natura mattress, and I can say the "Loon" came out on top for me, very comfortable and comparable to the iComfort from the brief time I had with it. My favorite out of the batch, this particular mattress was in the higher price range of $1700, and the specs were listed as follows;
* 4" 40% natural medium Talalay latex
* 2" 40% natural soft Talalay latex
* 2" medium soy polyfoam

For Sleeps Sake
Best experience in terms of inviting atmosphere and personality. They had a Tempurpedic around $2300 that was very comfortable and better than the iComfort (but misplaced the name of it) as well as a Natura mattress called the Mirror located here; www.naturaworld.com/mattress-mirror that offered a very comfortable feeling, just not quite the same as the iComfort.

Also for a cheaper price they had a different style of Springwall mattress as well (not nearly as comfortable as the others)


I have concluded, the more foam based the better, such as that feeling the Loon, Tempurpedic, and iComfort deliver, I am also sold on an adjustable base, absolutely love them.

I was wondering if the prices for those seem reasonable and if you have experience in any reputable online vendors from Canada, or that would ship to Canada with similar mattress quality to the style I appear to prefer (cheaper is always better, but I do know not always possible).

This question also considers the adjustable base. I have found many bases online for $800-$1100, where nearly all of them are $2000+ from the local stores visited.


Thanks,

Drenton

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Re: Overwhelmed in Southwestern Ontario, Canada 04 Oct 2011 21:47 #4

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Hi Drenton,

A couple of suggestions that may help a bit...

I wouldn't be looking necessarily to "duplicate" the iComfort as this could lead to a mattress with the same issues. The reason that the iComfort feels "soft and cushy" is because they use very low density foam in the comfort layers of this mattress and also too much of it. They are selling on "initial impression" and very subjective impressions and changeable feelings of "comfort" in the store. This initial impression will change for most people once they get it home and actually sleep on it for a while. A mattress that is tested specifically for and provides pressure relief and spinal alignment and uses good quality materials to do it will always feel more comfortable over time than one that caters to an initial impression in the store ... and it will keep these properties for much longer.

This is the same reason that pillowtops using soft low quality polyfoam became so popular ... and then became such a disaster over time as the foam lost both its ability to relieve pressure and lost its ability to provide any support. They were sold on initial impression rather than based on pressure relief and spinal alignment over the long term. The advertising of the major companies and the stores that sell them cater to this and have led to and created the belief that thicker mattresses are better when they are more a way to sell cheap materials at an inflated price. Consumers that buy them are influenced to believe that the warranty will protect them but all warranties have exclusions which are used to deny almost all claims based on the softening of the materials.

Long before a foam breaks down enough to show an impression when the weight is removed from the mattress ... the internal structure will have broken down and there is little to no more pressure relief or support. If you imagine 5" of soft down on top of a hard surface you will get a sense of what I mean. Even though the down layer feels soft and cushy ... you will quickly go through it and feel the layer underneath. The cheap low density foam is the same. At first it will provide pressure relief but as it softens ... you will "go through" to the layers underneath especially with your heavier parts and what once felt great will now be a recipe for a backache, pressure issues, and general discomfort. Since the foam will have just enough resiliency left to come back so there won't be an impression when you are off the mattress ... they call this softening "normal" and the warranty does not cover it.

So I would test each mattress specifically for pressure relief in your "curviest" sleeping position (on the side for side sleepers or side/combination sleepers, on the back for back sleepers or back/stomach sleepers and on the stomach for those who only sleep in this position). Then each mattress that provides good pressure relief for the hips and shoulders should be tested for alignment to make sure the heavier parts (hips/pelvic area) are not sinking down too far and bending the spine out of its natural alignment and that the wider/lighter shoulders are sinking in far enough that the upper spine is also in alignment (not curving upwards because the shoulder/upper body area is being held up too high). Any good retail or factory direct outlet understands this and will help you. The vast majority however don't and will steer you into buying a mattress based on subjective impressions and higher profit or commissions, sometimes with a little bit of pseudo facts sprinkled in to give the impression that they know about the materials in their mattress.

After this is done ... then the mattresses can be compared for the durability of the materials in it (a major part of its value) and for the subjective preferences based on overall "feel". Most mattress outlets will do everything they can to discourage meaningful comparisons with other stores base on the materials in a mattress. They will focus on their own "special or house" brands which they want you to believe are different and better than the other stores when they are not in any significant way. The better outlets want you to compare what they sell based on materials with other outlets because they know that the quality of their ingredients is better.

It is also a good idea initially to test a few mattresses with latex comfort layers (making sure from the actual spec sheet that it is actually latex not polyfoam and how soft the latex is) and a few memory foam mattresses (making sure from the spec sheet that there is no memory foam in it under 4 lbs density and no polyfoam over or "in between" the memory foam). Because memory foam allows you to sleep more "in" the mattress and latex allows you to sleep more "on" the mattress and allows for easier movement ... they have a different feel and it is usually a good idea to choose ahead of time which you prefer so you can focus on a single material in your comfort layer. They are basically equal in their ability to relieve pressure but latex is much longer lasting and has better supportive abilities than any memory foam. Different densities of memory foam and different ILD's (softness) of latex and different layering combinations will feel very different so its important to know the density of the memory foam you are lying on and the ILD of the latex you are lying on. Most stores will have a wide range of different types of memory foam options (just like Tempurpedic has many different options which can be very different from each other).

If a store doesn't have this information and/or won't give it to you ... pass them by unless you can find out the specifics of each layer online and you want to do a lot more work. These are the stores that again usually cater to initial comfort and subjective factors and don't pay much attention at all to helping you with your actual pressure relief or support needs.

So a good first step is to find an outlet that knows what is in every mattress they sell and are willing to show it to you. They will also usually carry a range of mattresses in each different comfort layer material. This is a good indication of how knowledgeable they are or whether they sell mattresses based on stories or on factual information and know how to use these facts to find a mattress that is suitable for you for both pressure relief and support. Finding an outlet like this will save you many hours of research online, a lot of frustration trying to find the facts behind the stories, or the headache of buying a mattress that doesn't do what it is supposed to do for very long and then can't be replaced because the softening or the wrong construction for you that you discovered in the first few weeks of sleeping on it (numbness or pain in various parts of your body) are not covered by the warranty.

I'll make a few comments on the various choices you mentioned in the next post :)

Phoenix
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Re: Overwhelmed in Southwestern Ontario, Canada 05 Oct 2011 02:53 #5

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Hi Drenton,

Your comments about the 4 mattresses you tested gave some good clues about what may work for you.

Springwall:

I'm not sure if the Springwall mattress you tested had memory foam or something else on top so this really doesn't point to anything in terms of layering or material. My guess is that this may have been a higher density memory foam with a firmer support core under it?

A&A Mattress:

This seems to be a good quality 5 lb memory foam over a polyfoam support core which is a fairly "basic" memory foam mattress although it is rare to see 5 lb memory foam in this price range (it is usually in mattresses which are much more). I'm not sure how long you lay on this one as 5 lb memory foam doesn't compress as quickly as the lower density and quality memory foam in the iComfort but once it warms up it becomes softer and more conforming. There is more of the viscous material in higher density memory foam and less in lower density memory foam which means that higher density memory foam that warms up will "flow" around your body shape more accurately and can be more pressure relieving. It can be quite firm at first though and with more sudden movements (like slapping water) than lower density memory foam which has more elasticity (reacts faster) and less of a viscous nature (reacts more slowly).

Natura Loon:

This is a talalay latex mattress with 2" of somewhat higher quality polyfoam on top. That you perceived this as comfortable (and that you didn't seem to like the higher quality and denser memory foam) tells me that you are not so solidly in the "memory foam" camp and like the more "active" feeling of polyfoam or latex foam rather than the more "dead" feeling of memory foam. The iComfort with the lower density memory foam is more resilient than higher density memory foam mattresses but not nearly as resilient as talalay latex or polyfoam. You clearly like soft on top but whether this soft is memory foam or latex or even polyfoam doesn't seem to matter as much.

For Sleeps Sake:

The Tempurpedic that you liked was likely one of the Cloud series which is most similar to the iComfort series but a little firmer overall (and has higher quality memory foam). The Natura here would have been very similar to the Loon with 2" of polyfoam over soft talalay latex.

So the first decision I would make would be to decide between a memory foam comfort layer or a latex comfort layer (I would choose latex without polyfoam on top which will become the weak link in your mattress).

Memory foam will be more of a "sinking in" feeling and have a less buoyant feeling than latex which has more resilience than memory foam. If you choose the right thickness and softness of latex ... it can be as pressure relieving as higher density memory foam and more so in many cases than lower density memory foam. Memory foam in the density you like (around 4 lb) will not last as long as denser memory foam and both will soften considerably more and faster than latex and are also less supportive to the recessed lumbar area. Memory foam that is under 4 lb and polyfoam over 1" is best avoided as they are not very durable when used on the top of a mattress.

You also seem to like a foam core (as opposed to an innerspring) which most memory foam and latex foam mattresses have. The most expensive and highest quality support core foam is also latex but it is certainly more costly and a high quality polyfoam core (such as what is used under almost all memory foam mattresses and lower cost latex foam mattresses) can work well to reduce the budget.

The naturas and other latex mattresses are great for testing but similar contruction mattresses using the same materials are available for much less.

If you have no real preference between memory foam and latex ... then overall a latex comfort layer is a much superior and longer lasting material and doesn't have the "negatives" of memory foam, especially memory foam under 5 lb density.

There are many online vendors who will ship to Canada including some of the members here. Many of them specialize in a "choose your own" latex layered mattress which is higher quality than any you have tested (most like the Natura's but without the cheaper lower quality polyfoam). The goal for an online order is to use your testing to get a rough "blueprint" of the mattress that best suits your needs so you can choose layers that work in a similar way to the mattresses you tested and liked.

So the next step is to test various latex foam comfort layers and compare them to memory foam comfort layers and if at all possible ... avoid anything with over an inch of polyfoam in the comfort layers (its OK in the support layers but shouldn't be over an inch or so in the comfort layers). Latex foam, memory foam, and polyfoam are the three types of foam you will encounter and choosing between the feel of memory foam (preferably 5 lb but lower quality 4 lb at a minimum) and latex in your comfort layer would be my suggestion as your next step. Make sure you know the density of any memory foam you test (the different densities will feel very different) and make sure you know the ILD (softness) of any latex comfort layers you test (different ILD's will also feel very different).

Phoenix
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Re: Overwhelmed in Southwestern Ontario, Canada 14 Oct 2011 23:24 #6

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Here is one for you...Monarch Mattress, Windsor Ontario

This is a Factory Direct owned by Howard Spinner...I think they are still around.

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Re: Overwhelmed in Southwestern Ontario, Canada 15 Oct 2011 00:37 #7

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Hi Pocket1,

You're a gold mine. I had them on my list but I've never talked with them and I didn't know who owned them. They're quite a way from London, ON (186 kilometers) but since you mentioned them I'll have to make a point of talking to them :)

www.monarchmattress.com/

Phoenix
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Re: Overwhelmed in Southwestern Ontario, Canada 11 Oct 2012 21:42 #8

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Hi All,

I thought I would amalgamate and update some of the information about some of the better sources of mattresses in Southwest Ontario generally and London specifically.

For those that are in the Toronto GTA area ... post #1 here has a list of many of the factory direct manufacturers in the area and some comments from members about some of them as well.

A more detailed list centered around the Windsor area is in post #13 here .

A more detailed list centered around Cambridge / Kitchener / Waterloo is in post #2 here .

The factory direct manufacturers south of Toronto include ...

www.beambedding.ca/en/index.html Waterloo, ON. Has been in business since 1932. Low to mid price mattresses using either high quality poly or innersprings and fibers. They are what I call "mattress people".

www.bestwaybedding.com/ St. Catharines, ON Makes a full range of mattresses including latex, memory foam, and innersprings. From the same family as CJ mulholland but completely separate and not the same.

www.cjmulhollandmattress.ca/ Hamilton, ON I talked with a saleslady at one of their stores and we had a great conversation and I was impressed with what they were doing. When she suggested I talk with the owner Jim, I did (on 2 occasions) but he seemed completely uninterested in my questions or in sharing any information with me about what they are doing. I have somewhat mixed feelings about them although they may have good value and would probably be worth a visit for those who are close by.

www.newdawnmattress.com/ Hamilton, ON Makes a complete range of latex, memory foam, and innerspring mattresses with good value.

www.ikea.com/ca/en/ Burlington, ON. See post #3 here for some of the better value here.

www.waterloomattress.ca/ Waterloo, ON. I have talked with them and they make foam and innerspring mattresses along with some memory foam and latex. They also carry some of the ZedBed mattresses. These are the two I would focus on here. They use high quality materials and no lower density foam. Good people.

www.thefoamstore.ca/ Kitchener, ON. Makes and sells mattresses that use high quality polyfoam and memory foam and have some good value.

These would generally be good sources of better quality/value for those who are within reasonable driving distance.

There are several smaller wholesale manufacturers that are made in Ontario and sold through retailers that may also have better quality/value. Most of them make a range of mattresses including latex, memory foam, and innersprings. A phone call to these or checking if they have a retail retail store finder on their site may provide you with any retailers that are close to you.

www.dreameasy.com/

www.dreamstarbedding.com/

endlesscomfort.com/

galaxybedding.ca/

sleepinnmattress.com/

For those that are in London, ON (where the original poster was) there are also some better retailers in the area which have better quality/value and are more knowledgeable than most retailers or the mass market outlets which sell major brands.

www.aamattress.com/ London, ON. Talked with him today and they are very open about their mattresses and will tell people the information they need. Good value. No all latex. Carries Dreameasy, Sleep Inn, Galaxy, and King Koil.

www.inbetweendreams.com/ London, ON. I have also talked with them and was very impressed. They are informative, knowledgeable, and helpful. They design their own mattresses made by a local manufacturer and carry the mattresses which they believe are the best quality, more natural, and have the best value including organic latex and latex hybrids. Good people with the right attitude. They have a showroom in their home and you will need to call for an appointment.

www.sleepfactory.com/ London, ON. They are a group of franchisees that carry their own house brand mattresses made by Endless Comfort. The level of knowledge and service at each franchisee varies but the better ones are open about what is in their mattresses and they can customize them as well. I would focus on their house brand here and not the major brands they also carry.

www.mattressoutlet.ca/ London, ON. They are a "no frills" warehouse outlet that carries Springwall and Boyd along with mainstream brands I would ignore. Be cautious here and make sure they can provide you with good information about the layers in their mattresses before considering them (they tend not to be as knowledgeable or focus on the materials in their mattresses as much)

www.eq3.com/ London, ON. UPDATE Mar,2014: They stopped carrying Natura and currently don't sell mattresses but they are designing a new line which includes Coconut Coir and latex which they told me will probably be out in a few months.

www.johans.com/ Strathoy, ON. They carry Pure Latex Bliss (Talalay latex) and Springwall (innersprings with various types of comfort layers including latex and memory foam) who are both manufacturers that provide all the information you need about the materials in their mattresses and would be worth considering. I would ignore the major brands they also carry.

For those in the Hamilton / Burlington area there are a couple of additional options there I'm aware of that may also be worth including in your research ...

www.themattressdiscounter.com/ Burlington, ON Retail direct for Dreamstar. Have some latex hybrid mattresses (and other styles as well) on their floor and can also custom order. Knowledgeable and helpful and would be well worth including in your research.

www.parksfurniture.com/ Hamilton, St Catharines, Niagara Falls, ON. Carries Galaxy and Springwall both of which are more transparent than most manufacturers and may have some better quality and value.

This should provide some better options in the Southwest Ontario area and in London in particular.

Phoenix
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Re: Overwhelmed in Southwestern Ontario, Canada 22 Aug 2014 10:44 #9

Hi,

I'm looking for 2 kids' mattresses (ages 2-5) in the London, ON region. I've spent some time going over the various resources provided by this site, but I'm still struggling to determine my best options. It seems to me that I want relatively firm, organic (chemical-free) mattresses that aren't memory foam (I think certain types of latex are okay?), but I was also hoping to spend at most $300-400 per mattress. Finding something local that fits those guidelines may be an impossible task, but any assistance would be helpful!

I had my eye on the Pure Echo from My Green Mattress earlier, but they don't appear to ship to Canada, and the message I sent them months ago went unanswered.

I keep seeing Groupons for Zen Bedrooms, which appears to have a decent organic kids mattress, but the mattress is a little more expensive (the Groupon does not appear to apply to their organic options), and based on feedback on their Facebook page their customer service does not seem to be very good. I couldn't find any mention of them on this site - does anyone have any experience with this company?
www.zenbedrooms.ca/organic-cotton-2-in-1-ultra-kids-mattress.html

I called InBetween Dreams and really liked everything they had to say, however their mattresses were out of my price range at over $1,000 each, which was still a steal compared to the quote I received from Johan's for a Pure LaytexBliss mattress.

I'm starting to feel a little discouraged by the gap between my ideals and my budget. Are there any cheaper options I haven't considered, or is this simply the reality? Am I even on the right track as far as my needs are concerned?

Any additional help/direction would be greatly appreciated.

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Re: Overwhelmed in Southwestern Ontario, Canada 22 Aug 2014 11:53 #10

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Hi DGow,

I've spent some time going over the various resources provided by this site, but I'm still struggling to determine my best options. It seems to me that I want relatively firm, organic (chemical-free) mattresses that aren't memory foam (I think certain types of latex are okay?), but I was also hoping to spend at most $300-400 per mattress. Finding something local that fits those guidelines may be an impossible task, but any assistance would be helpful!


Outside of the tutorial post ... the first step would be to decide on "how safe is safe enough for me?" which will have a direct effect on the materials you are comfortable having in your mattress. Your budget is probably too low for any type of "organic" mattress if that's an important criteria for you but most people would be comfortable with any material that was "safe" and was either CertiPur certified (for polyfoam), or with any type of innerspring or latex (all latex will be certified as "safe" either by Oeko-Tex or Eco-Institut). There is more about the "safety" of the most common materials you will find in mattresses and different certifications that may be important to you in post #2 here along with post #2 here and post #6 here that should be helpful. I would avoid memory foam for children.

Post #2 here includes the better forum posts and topics about mattresses and children that should also be helpful and they also include links to some good quality/value options for children.

The better options and possibilities I'm aware of in the London and Southwest Ontario region is in post #8 here .

I keep seeing Groupons for Zen Bedrooms, which appears to have a decent organic kids mattress, but the mattress is a little more expensive (the Groupon does not appear to apply to their organic options), and based on feedback on their Facebook page their customer service does not seem to be very good. I couldn't find any mention of them on this site - does anyone have any experience with this company?
www.zenbedrooms.ca/organic-cotton-2-in-1...a-kids-mattress.html


I'm not familiar with Zen Bedrooms but there are more than enough warning signs that show up with some quick research about them that I would be very careful in buying from them (and personally I would tend to avoid them or other companies that do most of their business with "coupon" sales based on fake retail prices and where you don't know who you are really dealing with). There are a lot of red flags here.

The mattress you linked is made by Naturepedic ( see here ) who make mattresses using high quality materials, many of them organic. It has an innerspring and organic cotton padding and would certainly be a "safe" choice. It would also be suitable for children and for those where an organic certification was more important than just "safe" materials although it also may be in a higher budget range than you are comfortable with or compared to other good options that are also available to you.

Phoenix
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