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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... so confused 20 Nov 2011 01:43 #151

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Hi Jaxson,

Just in case you've already read my last reply ... I added two outlets and some comments to my original post. One is a wholesale manufacturer in Salt Lake City if you decide to go there and the other is in the PS which is an outlet in Idaho Falls which carries a range of latex mattresses made by Natura.

Phoenix
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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... so confused 20 Nov 2011 02:03 #152

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Hi Irishman 222,

There are a lot of independent factory direct manufacturers in and around NYC which make a wide range of mattresses ... some of them not so commonly seen in other areas of the country. You will find them in post #2 here .

You may also find that because of your different sleeping positions and weights that you may do best with different constructions on each side of the mattress and most smaller independents will do this when it is necessary.

There is also a wide range of prices and materials in this list so I would certainly do some initial research on their websites and on the phone before selecting a few that you feel would be the most worthwhile to visit.

A side sleeper typically needs a thicker softer comfort layer and a good place to start would be about 3" and then go up or down from there depending on your experience in testing mattresses. Heavier weights also would typically use firmer layering (in both the comfort layers and the suupport layers) than lighter weights because firmer foam feels softer to them than it does to people with a lighter body weight.

Your wife on the other hand could use thinner and firmer comfort layers (1-2") than would be typical for people of her height and weight because of her stomach sleeping which has a tendency to allow the hips to sink too deeply in the mattress and cause a swayback position ... and possible back issues. This may work out to your advantage as her need for firmer comfort layers and good support for her stomach sleeping may also help to match her to the firmer layering you would need because you weigh more than she does. I am guessing though that she would also spend some time on her side (most stomach sleepers do) so she may need a little extra thickness and softness to help with any pressure issues when she does.

Of course you need to decide on which materials feel best to you and it may help you to read through the overviews here here to get a sense of the different choices you have and give you some basic information that will help you along the way.

Good luck and feel free to post here along the way if you have questions.

And congratulations on your marriage :)

Phoenix
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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 20 Nov 2011 11:29 #153

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Phoenix,

As many people on this forum my wife and I are looking to get a new bed. The questions is what brand do we go with. My wife has been gunning for the iComfort but in my opinion its ok. I have looked at memory, latex, tempur pedic, adjustable beds etc. We live in Fayetteville, NC and just really confused on what the best buy would be.

What we are looking for is something that is comfortable and allows us to enjoy sleeping with the possibility of having an adjustable base for leisure tv watching etc. I am 5'11 (240l lbs) 5'4 (130 lbs) we currently have a serta mattress that I had bought from sams club but its starring to sink in to each other. I have read a lot of the comments on this site but can't seem to find the right answer.

What brand should I be looking for etc. Should I be looking at amazon.com to buy one. There are just so many different brands and as you have mentioned I rather buy something that was made in the USA based on the contents of the mattress. There is the "Original Mattress Factory". Not biased to them but wanting to get the most bang for my buck seeming how expensive it is for a adjustable base if you buy one and the mattress. Again, your assistance in this matter is deeply appreciated. Thanks again.

As far as making a purchase. I would like to be able to have a no hassle return if the bed we purchase is not working out etc. But not going to say I am not willing to try to order a bed off of a website like amazon.com, sams club, etc.

-JonnyBBravo

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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 20 Nov 2011 16:43 #154

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Phoenix,

I just essentially put a deposit on an Icomfort Revolution and I'm wondering where you get your information from.

You mentioned earlier in the thread that the Revolution has 2" KoolComfort Memory Foam, 1" comfort foam, 2¾" Cool Action Gel Memory Foam.. but your claiming the density is not as good as the competitors? But do you have any factual information to back this up?

And what if you lived in canada and didn't have any custom mattress manufacturers near you?? It doesn't make sense that you bash the Serta product with minimal facts to go on.

With a price point the same or close, how would a $2100 tempurpedic compare to an Icomfort? In both longevity and comfort?

Should I get the cheaper 5.3lb per cubic foot memory foam Novosbed (very similar to the classic) and get a 3" 4lb topper for about $1000? or spend the $2100 on the Icomfort??

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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 20 Nov 2011 19:05 #155

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Hi Jonnybbravo,

In mattress shopping ... brand is almost meaningless because every brand has access to the same materials and it is the materials in a mattress which determines its quality and value. The "brand" which generally produces the "best" value and quality is what the major brands call "off brands" which means any brand which is not a major national mattress manufacturer. These independent local or regional manufacturers, often owned and run by families that have been producing high quality mattresses for several generations, would certainly be the place I would focus my attention. Some guidelines that will help you avoid most of the pitfalls of mattress shopping are here .

The first thing I would do is to decide on the general "type" of mattress you are looking for. I would start here and read the 6 overviews and that in combination with your own general mattress testing should help you to narrow down the type of materials you are looking for and most comfortable with.
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In the comfort layers ... the most common choices are between the three different types of foam which are memory foam, latex, and polyfoam. I would not consider polyfoam unless you are purchasing from an independent manufacturer who will tell you the quality they are using and how long it can be reasonable expected to last. Polyfoam comes in a wide range of different qualities and the major manufacturers tend to use lower density and quality polyfoam in the comfort layers of their mattresses which are not nearly as durable as higher quality polyfoam. The other two types of foam used in comfort layers ... latex and memory foam ... are very different materials and I would lay on some of each to get a sense of the differences in general feel between them. While both memory foam and latex come in a wide variety of different firmnesses and layering schemes which can change how they feel and perform for each individual, they are quite different from each other no matter which layering scheme is used. These two articles about the pros and cons of latex and the pros and cons of memory foam may also help.

In the support layers ... you will most likely be looking at a choice between latex, polyfoam, and innersprings. Again, each of these will have different qualities and a different feel, advantages, and disadvantages.

Keep in mind though that in almost all mattresses ... the weak link (the part that is most prone to early softening and/or failure) is the materials used in the top few inches of the mattress. This is the part of a mattress that needs the most durable materials.

The most effective way to buy a mattress with the least amount of research (which can sometimes be a little overwhelming) is to focus your efforts on independent manufacturers or sleep shops which are completely transparent about what is in their mattresses and have the knowledge and skill and integrity to "match" a mattress to your specific needs and budget.

Some of the independent manufacturers near Fayetteville, NC which would likely be your best source of quality and value would be ...

www.originalmattress.com/locations Fayetteville, NC. Regional factory direct manufacturer. They produce a wide variety of mattresses using higher quality materials including 2 latex models and they are just coming out with their first memory foam mattress as well. Very good quality and value.

southernmattressnc.com/index.htm Rocky Mount, NC. Factory direct manufacturer that sells mostly wholesale to retail outlets but they also have a showroom at their factory that sells directly to consumers. They make some high quality traditional innerspring /polyfoam mattresses (including HR polyfoam) that are better quality and value than mainstream manufacturers in their price range. Very good quality and value in this style of mattress.

www.riversidemattressinc.com/ Local wholesale manufacturer in Fayetteville that makes a range of two sided innerspring mattresses. They have a store finder on their site.

There are a few other independent manufacturers in High Point that make some high quality mattresses as well. these would also be worth including in your research if a trip to High Point is a reasonable possibility.

Band Bedding Local factory direct manufacturer who is making high quality mattresses using high quality material with very good value. Will make memory foam on request but prefers to focus on materials that they believe won't soften or degrade as quickly like latex or higher quality polyfoam. Owned by the father of Walker Bedding.
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www.walkerbeddingcompany.net/ Local factory direct manufacturer in High Point. Makes some very good value innerspring mattresses using higher quality polyfoam than most. Run by the son of BandL Bedding.

High Point Bedding Local factory direct manufacturer in High Point. Makes mainly lower budget and good value innerspring/polyfoam mattresses. No website.

reliablebeddingcompany.com/ Another factory direct manufacturer in High Point that has been making a range of two sided innerspring mattresses for over 40 years.

These are "old style" mattress makers who have been around for a long time and are "good people" who focus more on their local reputation than on advertising to sell mattresses.

Some of the local retail options that may also be worth considering on a mattress by mattress basis and the brands that they carry that I would focus on at each one (assuming that they are willing and able to provide you with the information you need about the quality of the materials in their mattresses) includes ...

www.homemakersfurniturenc.com/ Fayetteville, NC. Bemco, Restonic.

agoodnightsleepstore.com/ Fayetteville, NC. Pure Latex Bliss.

themattressshoppe.net/index.html Fayetteville, NC. Park Place, Southerland.
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www.facebook.com/EastoverFurnitureandMattressCompany Eastover, NC. Restonic

hornefurnitureandappliance.com/brands.html Stedman, NC. Restonic
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farmershomefurniture.com/locator Dunn, Red Springs, Lumberton, Clinton, Sanford, NC. Paramount.

www.nearwholesale.net/bedroom/mattresses.aspx Lumberton, NC. Southern Lady.

www.dossenbachs.com/ Sanford, NC. Jamison, Symbol.

Southern Pines, NC. American Bedding (Sterling & Thomas)
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www.tuckerfurnitureinc.com/ Smithfield, NC. Park Place.


There is also a Raleigh / Durham list in post #6 here .

Hope this helps

Phoenix
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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 20 Nov 2011 19:52 #156

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Hi Moose0721,

Thanks for some great questions :)

I just essentially put a deposit on an Icomfort Revolution and I'm wondering where you get your information from.


The information on the site and in the forum comes from many sources. Some of it comes from thousands (literally) of hours of conversations with dozens of mattress manufacturers all around the country who in many cases have made mattresses for decades. They are well aware of the different materials that are available to them and the specs, advantages, and disadvantages of each material.

Part of it comes also from having come to know what you could call "insiders" in the industry who have many years of experience in different parts of the the industry, are well aware of the trends that are happening, and why different manufacturers take the approach they do in manufacturing and pricing their mattresses.

Part of it comes from thousands of hours of research (again literally) into the properties and specs of the different materials that are used in mattresses and what they really do as opposed to what various interests would have people believe they do. There are many technical sources on the internet but they usually involve going much deeper into various searches and then taking the time to read (and understand) some very difficult and technical reading. Sources like patent applications, SEC 10K forms, industry publications and sites, foam manufacturers, and many others are also valuable sources of more accurate information than most people are willing or have the time to pursue.

Part of it also comes from an understanding of how different types of manufacturing techniques and layering patterns interact with each other and with the people sleeping on them. This information too has come from many sources both online and on many hours of conversations.

Part of it come from many many hours of personal testing of mattresses with different types of layering, construction, and materials both by myself and others to "translate" various ideas and knowledge into practical terms.

Sometimes information has to be "figured out" as in some of the specs of the iComfort. I have seen samples of the actual foam used in the iComfort, laid on each model to see how it felt and performed in comparison to other mattresses, talked to many people about the specific foams that are used and what is in them, seen the specs of each mattress which are available at various online outlets, and also had to use various calculations to determine the actual density of the gel memory foam they (and other manufacturers) use.

I typically spend about 16 hours a day and 7 days a week with the different "hats" I wear in building this website and gathering the information on it.

And what if you lived in canada and didn't have any custom mattress manufacturers near you?? It doesn't make sense that you bash the Serta product with minimal facts to go on.


I hope my last answer and the hundreds of pages on this website and on the forum have helped you understand that there is much more than just "minimal facts" behind anything that goes on this website. Canada also has many independent factory direct manufacturers just like the US ... however also like in the US there are areas where one of these isn't within reasonable driving distance. In cases like these ... some local mattress testing will certainly give you enough information to create a rough "prototype" for an online order of a high quality and value mattress from a Canadian or American manufacturer. Sometimes this is the best source of quality and value in a mattress purchase and it is available for anyone in North America when a lack of other good choices warrants it.

With a price point the same or close, how would a $2100 tempurpedic compare to an Icomfort? In both longevity and comfort?


In terms of durability and longevity ... there is no doubt in my mind that the Tempurpedic uses higher quality and more durable materials. Comfort on the other hand is a personal issue that is unique to each individual based on their height, weight distribution, sleeping positions, and preferences and how a specific mattress interacts with their unique needs and specs. Even the worst quality cheapest materials can be used to make a mattress "comfortable" (which is really a meaningless term and very subjective for each individual). The issue is how long will this "comfort" last and did you pay a fair price for the materials and construction used to produce it. This is where the major manufacturers fall short, not in their ability to produce "comfortable" mattresses. Most people who buy a mattress based on subjective factors like "comfort" in the "highly managed" and artificial environment of most mattress showrooms or who focus on brands they are familiar with through advertising will not do well in terms of the value and/or the durability of their purchase.

Major brand mattresses are not all "bad" mattresses ... but the best of them do not compare well with many if not most smaller manufacturers who use much higher quality and more durable materials at the same price points.

Should I get the cheaper 5.3lb per cubic foot memory foam Novosbed (very similar to the classic) and get a 3" 4lb topper for about $1000? or spend the $2100 on the Icomfort??


I personally wouldn't consider either. Novosbed doesn't provide the source or any certifications of the memory foam used in the Novosbed which they don't give on their website and won't release to customers on a phone call. There is some very bad memory foam used in mattresses that have a 5.3 lb density ... and much of it comes from China. At least the CertiPur or other certifications from independent testing groups will help avoid these questionable sources of memory foam.

If you search the web and take a look at some import records that are available you will see shipments to Novosbeds from URE Plastics in China. This is why I normally suggest the four guidelines in post #2 here when buying memory foam. Enough said?

If you were to buy a memory foam mattress like the Novosbed (assuming it was good quality) ... then there would be no need to add more memory foam as it would already have enough. Too much memory foam for an individual's requirements is not a good idea and will increase the likelihood of back issues that come from sleeping out of alignment. With 4" of memory foam and then another 3" of topper ... you would have a total of 7" of memory foam. This would not be suitable for anyone.

Thanks again for your great questions and giving me the chance to answer them with more than "minimal facts" :)

Phoenix

NOTE: Since this was written Novosbed now uses US manufactured foam that is Certipur certified and are completely transparent about the quality/density of the materials in their mattresses and are included in the list of memory foam sources that are among the better quality/value online memory foam options.
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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 20 Nov 2011 20:08 #157

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With all that said phoenix, can you confirm based on your knowledge the density of the 3 comfort foams used in the Icomfort revolution?

The novosbed is similar to tempurpedic classic and therefore a very firm bed. So adding a 2" or 3" topper would be a nice addition to a very firm bed.

I don't want to make the mistake and buy the wrong bed here spending a lot of money..

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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 20 Nov 2011 20:26 #158

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Hi Moose0721,

With all that said phoenix, can you confirm based on your knowledge the density of the 3 comfort foams used in the Icomfort revolution?


Within a reasonable "margin of error" yes (and there are actually more than 3 different types of foam used in the iComfort lineup). Gel memory foam itself though has some other issues based on the different uses and methods of infusion used to incorporate it into memory foam "chemistry" itself. The "gel powder" or "beads" which is added to memory foam is not without its challenges and there is a great deal of controversy and differences of opinions about gel memory foam itself and its different methods of manufacture. Gel is heavier than memory foam and so can "artificially" increase the density of the memory foam layer. Infusing different percentages of gel into memory foam can increase the apparent density of the memory foam used as a "base". Different methods of production and chemistry will also increase or decrease the likelihood of the gel "separating" from the memory foam as well and decrease or increase its strength. There are many technical issues here and these have been the subject of many conversations I have had. "Gel memory foam" is not a single material and has many variations.

The novosbed is similar to tempurpedic classic and therefore a very firm bed. So adding a 2" or 3" topper would be a nice addition to a very firm bed.


This is based on a misunderstanding of what makes a memory foam mattress feel firm or soft. Memory foam itself is the least supportive of all foams which is why it requires a firmer support layer underneath it. Having 7" of memory foam in the top of a mattress ... no matter what type or density of memory foam it is ... is a recipe for back issues. This is the reason for suggestion #4 in the memory foam guidelines I linked to in my last reply. Using "unknown" memory foam also increases the odds of some of the "memory foam" issues that you can read about all around the web. I personally wouldn't take the health risks of using unknown and untested memory foam in my mattress.

I understand the desire not to make a "mistake" when you are spending money on a purchase which can have such a big effect on the quality of both your sleeping and waking life. This is why the guidelines I have written and suggested ... while not absolute or "perfect" ... will help you dramatically increase your odds of making better choices.

Phoenix
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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 20 Nov 2011 21:05 #159

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While a appreciate your quick replies, you are beating around the bush. I asked given your extensive knowledge what the density would be of the comfort layers. You still haven't provided that info to myself or the other readers. Which therefore makes me wonder if you even know what it is. Is it 3lb? 4lb? 5lb? I do remember reading that you suspected one of the layers to be just shy of 5lb... so that's pretty good is it not?

I will call Serta to acquire that information. But if they don't give it to me I might have to go with the tempurpedic cloud es.

Or maybe this?

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Regarding the 2-3" topper idea. that is a serta 3" topper with 4lb memory foam. Unsure of the manufacture so yes it does make it hard to just believe it is quality.

Thanks phoenix for your advice.

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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... so confused 20 Nov 2011 21:54 #160

Hi Jaxson,

Just in case you've already read my last reply ... I added two outlets and some comments to my original post. One is a wholesale manufacturer in Salt Lake City if you decide to go there and the other is in the PS which is an outlet in Idaho Falls which carries a range of latex mattresses made by Natura.

Phoenix


Sure enough, I read your post before the final edits and just circled back here to give you an update! I'm rolling the dice and just ordered the 8" special from SleepEZ. After speaking with Shawn, I went with the 2" Talalay Soft on top, then Medium Dunlop, then Firm Dunlop--with the 2 bottom layers split. He suggested the split in order to give me the flexibility to play around more with the layers to dial in to the best feel. Fingers crossed!

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