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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 14 Nov 2012 18:11 #406

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Hi Overwhelmedsleeper,

Post #1 here (and the links it includes to read) has a series of steps that can dramatically increase the odds of buying a high quality and value mattress in any budget range.

Most importantly it will help you eliminate your worst choices (such as major brands or most chain stores) and help you know how to tell which are the better ones (both in terms of a manufacturer or retailer and a specific mattress).

So we are looking into a memory foam icomfort revolution or something similar (latex maybe after reading your information).


Serta (that makes the icomfort) is one of the "major brands" that I would avoid unless there is a particularly compelling reason that they would be worth considering for you. You can see more information about the iComfort lineup in post #11 here .

I am looking at icomfort or Denver Mattress Snowmass Plush Only need Mattress as our bed doesnt allow for anything underneath as we have a bedframe that is solid wood and has drawers underneath.


Denver Mattress' "mostly latex" mattresses are usually among the better quality/value choices in most areas where they do business. A forum search on "Snowmass" (you can just click this) will bring up many posts and lots more information about them.

Also what do you think of sleep number beds?


My thoughts about airbeds are in this article but they can be summarized as "for most people they are a waste of money".

My husband
215 lbs and 5' 10".
Mostly Side sleeper
Retains Heat

I am
145 lbs and 5' 4"
Side Sleeper and am always COLD


The links in the post I linked earlier includes some generic information about how different heights and heights and sleeping positions need different types of mattresses and on which types of mattresses and materials can be cooler than others (and there is more information about sleeping cool in post #2 here ) but these are more generic guidelines and because of the many variables involved ... personal testing specifically for pressure relief, alignment, and your other personal preferences will always be more accurate than a "formula" or "theory at a distance".

do you have a list of manufactures that you would have us call for Louisville, Ky area?


Yes ... the better options or at least "possibilities" I'm aware of in the Louisville area are listed in post #3 here

Hope this helps :)

Phoenix
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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 14 Nov 2012 18:50 #407

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Oh my goodness Phoenix, can I ever relate to the "backbone" and the "misfit" comments. I was definitely aware of the T & S combo, as well as the other S & S combo. Anyone that follows venture and vulture equity follows these things.

A quick look at any retailer would show people what has the highest margins and rate of turnover. It's never surprised me why there's a mattress seller on corners and in every plaza. Retailers large and small don't devote that much room to shelf space without a good return. Costco and others included. That's why you see fewer and smaller products in quick stops, and more and more wine.

But I digress....

I know you're a huge fan of the latex mattresses, and you've certainly given ample reason for me to look at them as well. There are a couple of local retailers that sell them around here, as I've mentioned. I'll be as selfish as I can right now and see if I can pick your brain for what you think of the models I've mentioned thus far. When I find something we like, then maybe I can go to one of the preferred manufacturers you list and see how they can match it or approximate it.

It's the same in many industries today, has been for decades. I noticed awhile ago that my favorite beer just wasn't cutting it. It didn't have the same taste, not as smooth or consistent. Then I found out they stopped buying those expensive imported hops. They saved quite a bit of money, and ticked off a lot of people. But they don't care, profits were up, and they controlled a huge share of the market already. Consumers are already drinking stinky beer, so why not?

Hey, get to work finding me a good mattress match ;)

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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 15 Nov 2012 02:30 #408

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Hi iBuyer,

I'll be as selfish as I can right now and see if I can pick your brain for what you think of the models I've mentioned thus far. When I find something we like, then maybe I can go to one of the preferred manufacturers you list and see how they can match it or approximate it.


I looked back at the thread and the ones you've mentioned that you liked are the iSeries Applause firm and the iSeries Celebration firm. Hopefully these are the two you wanted me to comment on?

As noted by you, we will go to the Williston Mattress Depot to see the Boyd and Natura lines


It would probably be more "accurate" and helpful the other way around where you actually test these mattresses and then let me know which ones your body tells you are similar and then include these as part of identifying a possible "pattern" of mattresses that you like to see if can help you identify what properties all the ones you like have in common.

Post #2 here talks about the difficulties involved in trying to match one mattress to another based on specs alone (which really isn't possible unless both mattresses use the same or at least functionally similar layering and materials) as opposed to a common set of more objective standards. There are really only three ways to do this which you can see in (see post #2 here ).

None of these 3 methods are really possible in the case of the iSeries because they don't provide the "comfort specs" of every layer of the mattress (that have to do with the softness/firmness of every layer and component which are different from "quality specs" which have to do with their durability and quality) so you won't be able to exactly duplicate it by materials. You also won't be able to compare it with another mattress in "real time" unless a store had both the iSeries you liked and another specific mattress you wanted to compare. There also aren't a lot of mattresses that have been both designed and tested to have the same specific feel and performance as the iSeries where a retailer would be able to confidently say that "this mattress" feels 90% the same as the iSeries you want to duplicate for the large majority of people.

Because of this ... it's much more effective to rate every mattress you test against a common set of more objective standards and then see how each one measures up to your individual criteria rather than to each other.

Having said all that ... since you seem to like both the iSeries Applause firm and the iSeries Celebration firm there are a few very general "pointers" you can draw from this.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint 1: us-mattress.com/serta-pd-applause-fm.html| Archived Footprint 2:us-mattress.com/serta-pd-celebration-fm.html

The first of these is that both mattresses are on the firmer end of the range and use relatively thin layers of soft foam in combination with some firmer foam in the comfort layers. The applause uses 1.5" of soft foam on top (the comfort foam) before you reach a thin 1" layer of much firmer polyfoam (the support foam) and then there is some softer memory foam and the softer upper part of the duet coil under this before you "reach" the final firm part of the Duet coil (when both springs kick in). They "rate" this one as a 4. The Celebration has 2" of "softer" foam on top (the combination of memory foam and comfort foam) before reaching the firmer 2" support foam and because this firmer foam is thicker and the comfort layers are also thicker ... they would reduce the compression of the innerspring below it so the soft part of the spring also wouldn't be as soft. The rating here is 2. Because they both use the same innerspring for deep support ... this would indicate that a slightly firmer than average comfort layer/transition layer (a slightly shallower than average pressure relieving cradle) would probably be better for you but not so thin that you can't sink into it enough and the cradle is too shallow that it wouldn't adequately relieve pressure. Your preference for the Applause also indicates that "not really firm or thin" in the comfort layers may work best.

Beyond this ... there really isn't much you can use to compare the iSeries to other mattresses that use different materials and layering except by assigning a rating for pressure relief, support and alignment, and any of the other preferences that are important to you and then compare other mattresses you test with each of the same criteria.

If other mattresses indicate a similar "pattern" meaning that the ones you prefer have slightly firmer than average comfort layers (but not really thin) over firm support cores then at least this could provide a guideline if you ended up ordering a mattress online. It may also indicate a preference for an innerspring support core which has a different "feel" from a either a latex or polyfoam support core (even though they can be just as or more supportive than an innerspring) but you can confirm this if the "feel" of several polyfoam or latex support core mattresses just don't "feel" as good for you (they would have different levels of "springiness") even though they may provide similar support and keep you in alignment just as well.

A "firm" mattress can either be a thinner layer of soft foam which you "go through" enough to feel the firmness of the layers below them or a slightly thicker firmer comfort layer where the firmness comes more from the comfort layer itself. It's this second type of firmness that would be more of the "cause" of the firmness in both of these and which you could use as a guideline.

There is no right or wrong in this ... only finding a mattress that provides good pressure relief, spinal alignment, and has the other preferences you want. Many different material combinations can provide your "needs" and then it's just a matter of deciding which of them best match your other preferences including of course value and durability.

Hope this helps ... and when you test other mattresses which seem to match your criteria just as well (or better) then looking at the layering of these as well may provide further insight into the general layering patterns that work best for you. Of course the best "guideline" for an online mattress purchase is one that uses the same materials and has a simpler layering that needs less "translation" between materials and more complex layering patterns.

Phoenix
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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 15 Nov 2012 09:33 #409

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Thanks again Phoenix, thanks for spending the time to write quality comments to each poster.

I think I get it now, and you've given me a better way to approach the process. The biggest help you've given me is to concentrate more on the quality of materials than anything else. I now understand fully how a bed can go from being "The One", to a bed that just broke down and we're looking again bed.

I'm at the lower than middle price point now, so my ultimate decision will be more limited than could otherwise be.

It will be an interesting process.

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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 15 Nov 2012 10:55 #410

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Thank you so much for all your feedback to me and the rest of the consumers!! I will let you know what we end up with and where we get it from!

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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 16 Nov 2012 12:28 #411

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We had some time last night, and driving right by the store, we stopped in again.

We sought out the iSeries Jubilance, because we hadn't been on this bed yet. Our previous "budget" stop left us on the Celebration and the Applause. So we spent 15 minutes more or less on the Jubilance, which doesn't have the cheaper IFD support. It has 2" of Koolcomfort memory foam, plus 1" of Coolaction Gel foam, plus another 1 " of that Gel foam as well. From what I got from the salesman, the 2" Koolcomfort is 5# foam, and the other 2 layers of 1" gel are 4#. Those are under a quilt top. While this mattress is labeled as Plush, it felt extremely comfortable. We didn't sink in, and had no problem moving from back to side. We liked it, a lot.

It definitely felt more luxurious (whatever that means) than our original choices. The extra $500 seemed hard to digest.
This bed with foundation would set us back $1,300. Certainly not a huge budget, but higher than your average bed.

So now that we know more about quality, meaning layers that don't degrade quickly, we'll be off to see what we think of Latex beds this weekend. I looked at the Sleep EZ site quite a bit, and it doesn't seem as scary now. Love free delivery from 2,000 miles plus away as well;)

The trick will be to closely approximate the feel we liked with the support on the Jubilance in latex. Hopefully, the latex retail store here will have enough products to try out that we can get an idea of what to look for. If we chose an online retailer, that would be extremely important.

From everything I've read from you Phoenix, this Jubilance bed is of pretty decent quality, although the Value proposition, even with our big discount, may not be the best. The one thing I like about your approach, is being able to get a bed with replaceable layers. So even if we don't get it perfect in the first shot, we have an easily rectifiable option to try again by replacing layers. That makes me think that I should look for a higher quality support first, and then buy from someone that leaves my options open in the future. That definitely increases the value proposition by being able to replace a layer or two further down as the years go by.

the real trick will be to find this in our $$$ budget.

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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 16 Nov 2012 18:50 #412

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Hi iBuyer,

The iSeries Jubilance is a much better quality choice IMO because as you mention it uses higher quality materials in the comfort layers. The Kool Comfort memory foam is 5 lbs as he mentioned (good quality) and the lower quality gel memory foam (4 lbs with gel particles) is lower in the mattress where it will be more durable and the extra support from the "beads" can help offset the tendency to sink deeper into memory foam layers. It doesn't have any obvious "weak links" like the other two you were considering.

It definitely felt more luxurious (whatever that means) than our original choices. The extra $500 seemed hard to digest. This bed with foundation would set us back $1,300. Certainly not a huge budget, but higher than your average bed.


If that's a "set" price and queen size or better then it's a reasonable value IMO (assuming they are an authorized dealer and it's not a floor model etc) and much less than the listed price at most sites such as here. This would be a case of "better quality but not great value" becoming better value because of the discount you would receive.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: us-mattress.com/serta-pd-jubilance.html

The trick will be to closely approximate the feel we liked with the support on the Jubilance in latex. Hopefully, the latex retail store here will have enough products to try out that we can get an idea of what to look for. If we chose an online retailer, that would be extremely important.


This will be tricky because latex and memory foam have a completely different feel although either can do a great job with pressure relief (again depending on layer thickness and softness in both cases and on the layers underneath them). Being a slow response material the memory foam will be more "motion restricting" (although the some of the newer memory foams are less so than the old slower response memory foams) and the latex will be more "motion allowing". When you test latex I would try to get a sense of the differences in how the materials respond because either type of mattress can be softer or firmer and softness/firmness has less to do with the material itself than the different types of response and other properties of each type of foam. I would especially look for latex mattresses with softer comfort layers which will more closely "approximate" the softness of the memory foam so you can tell more of the difference between the two materials in "soft" versions.

Pure Latex Bliss has a line of latex mattresses that use mostly soft (19 ILD) Talalay latex layers on top and are fairly widely available across the country so these may give you a chance to test a comfort layer that uses various layers of soft latex on top. You can find the closest retailer to you on their retail finder here .

The one thing I like about your approach, is being able to get a bed with replaceable layers. So even if we don't get it perfect in the first shot, we have an easily rectifiable option to try again by replacing layers. That makes me think that I should look for a higher quality support first, and then buy from someone that leaves my options open in the future. That definitely increases the value proposition by being able to replace a layer or two further down as the years go by.


This can certainly be an effective approach either with a zip cover where the layers can be replaced or exchanged or with a basic mattress that is purchased more as a support system and then adding toppers to create your own comfort layers (or fine tune the ones you have). Some local manufacturers will also open up a mattress and replace a layer as well should it be necessary even if it doesn't have a zip cover.

the real trick will be to find this in our $$$ budget.


Yes ... but at least you have a reasonable starting point :)

Phoenix
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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 17 Nov 2012 12:08 #413

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Well at least you set me out on the right path.

Yes, the deal is pretty good with my discount. That price includes the foundation, as well as the promo pillows and blanket, for what they're worth.

The only thing that concerns me is the "break-in period" referred to here as it relates to the firmness and softening of memory foams. I'd hate to go from Just Right to too soft. I wonder, given the layers in the Jubilence model being thin, if their propensity to get softer is far less than others.

The cheaper models have the 2" IFD support foam, which I "guess" would be far more likely to soften over time. I have no idea how the 2" Koolcomfort or 1" layers of Coolaction gel foam hold up. Someone could start a business going around cutting the tops off mattresses, and installing zippers ;)

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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 17 Nov 2012 18:40 #414

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Hi iBuyer,

The only thing that concerns me is the "break-in period" referred to here as it relates to the firmness and softening of memory foams. I'd hate to go from Just Right to too soft. I wonder, given the layers in the Jubilence model being thin, if their propensity to get softer is far less than others.


You are probably wise to look at this with any foam material but certainly with memory foam. If you are "on the edge" in terms of softness (and alignment) then you can count on some degree of softening and it's also true that sleeping on a memory foam mattress over the course of the night will be softer and allow you to sink deeper into the mattress than testing it for a shorter time. I would definitely leave some room for softening over the first 90 days or so because with 4" of memory foam material there will certainly be some softening in the initial weeks before the break in period is over and foam softening becomes more gradual.

Two things to keep in mind are the floor model you are testing (how far along is it in the break-in period) and some "room" (hard to quantify I know) for softening so that you aren't tempted to buy a mattress that is on the edge of your alignment range and may go over the edge during the break in period.

Someone could start a business going around cutting the tops off mattresses, and installing zippers


Interestingly enough ... you can already buy zip covers of various types for mattresses in different thicknesses so if you ever needed to cut open your mattress and do "surgery" then you could remove layers and replace both the layers and your current cover with a zip version as long as the other layers and components were still in good condition and weren't glued together (which can make removing them more difficult).

Phoenix
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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 17 Nov 2012 21:27 #415

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Hi Phoenix, I posted number 390, but didn't see a response. Do u have anythg in your blogs about local manufacturers in Indiana? We found one and got some specs on a mattress comparable to the icomfort renewal refined, but it is hard to compare apples to apples on quality. We really like the renewal refined. And we also like the icomfort adjustable base. Any feedback on those? We have your breakdown on the renewal refined but are not sure how to compare apples to apples with other memory foam. It all gets overwhelming after a while. Thanks!!!

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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 17 Nov 2012 23:10 #416

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Hi wamp8ish,

I must have missed your post while I was writing another reply (which happens on occasion). My apologies :)

If you can let me know a city or zip I'd be happy to let you know of any that I'm aware of in your area. Statewide searches are a little too time consuming and I prefer a starting point and forum listing for specific cities (or a zip code).

Phoenix
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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 18 Nov 2012 00:27 #417

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Hi iBuyer,


You are probably wise to look at this with any foam material but certainly with memory foam. If you are "on the edge" in terms of softness (and alignment) then you can count on some degree of softening and it's also true that sleeping on a memory foam mattress over the course of the night will be softer and allow you to sink deeper into the mattress than testing it for a shorter time. I would definitely leave some room for softening over the first 90 days or so because with 4" of memory foam material there will certainly be some softening in the initial weeks before the break in period is over and foam softening becomes more gradual.

Two things to keep in mind are the floor model you are testing (how far along is it in the break-in period) and some "room" (hard to quantify I know) for softening so that you aren't tempted to buy a mattress that is on the edge of your alignment range and may go over the edge during the break in period.

Interestingly enough ... you can already buy zip covers of various types for mattresses in different thicknesses so if you ever needed to cut open your mattress and do "surgery" then you could remove layers and replace both the layers and your current cover with a zip version as long as the other layers and components were still in good condition and weren't glued together (which can make removing them more difficult).

Phoenix


Well we did just that, we got to test another that was older. We have ruled out the Jubilance model because it's just plain too soft for me. (it pays to go back and test and re-test)

Our favorite model is still the Applause Firm. Neither too soft or too firm. I kept hashing back and forth over this model, because of your analysis of the components. All in all, it didn't Feel like a memory foam mattress, which is fine with us. In the other thread, I noted that we both elevated the latex bed Natural Elegance to first place, which as you know, creates a new problem.

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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 18 Nov 2012 02:33 #418

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Hi iBuyer,

It's too bad about Comfort Solutions because in some of their mattresses they do use high quality materials and they do themselves no favors by being so secretive about them IMO. They want to be the "alternative" to the "S" companies (Serta, Sealy, Simmons) and are just behind them in size ranking but they are just as difficult in most cases to get good information. The top by size are Tempurpedic, Serta, Sealy, Simmons, Select Comfort (airbeds), Corsicana (moving up quickly) and Comfort Solutions (which until recently were ahead of Corsicana but I believe are now behind them).

Some of their latex mattresses are good quality and in some cases some retailers will sell them at good value as well and will even tell you what is in them. They also make an XL line (Extended Life) which uses polyfoam over 2.0 lb density which is sold as being a more durable mattress that is suitable for higher weights. This is the type of "quality/value" that for many smaller manufacturers is the "norm".
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: comfortsolutions.com/mattress-products/extended-life.html

The retailer you deal with can make all the difference in how easy it is to get the information you need.

Phoenix
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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 18 Nov 2012 10:30 #419

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Hi Phoenix!! No problem! I figured that was the case so thought I would try again!! We are in 46062 zip code or Indianapolis area. Thanks so much!!

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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 18 Nov 2012 16:59 #420

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Hi wanpish,

Post #2 here has the better choices I'm aware of in the Indianapolis area.

Thanks for narrowing down the area :)

Phoenix
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