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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 02 Mar 2012 07:14 #256

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xps24,

I went to a Mattress firm and tried out the iComfort mattress and thought it was pretty good. Especially with the motion perfect base which I fell in love with.. (I believe that's the name)


I think that perhaps the best place you could start is to read the guidelines on this page . This will help you avoid most of the common traps and pitfalls of mattress shopping and likely lead you away from the chain stores (like mattress firm) and the major brands (like Serta) and help you focus on the much higher quality and value that is usually available from local factory direct manufacturers or sleep shops that sell smaller alternative brands.

The motion perfect is basically the Ergomoton 400 at adjustablebeds.org with a few minor enhancements. I personally bought the Reverie Deluxe because the value was a little better although both would have made good choices. Reverie makes all the bases for Tempurpedic.

There is an analysis and review of the entire iComfort lineup in post #11 here .

Now, I'm lost in even which mattress to begin to look at. Would any mattress be compatible with the Reverie base?


There are some innerspring mattresses which can be used with an adjustable base (the outlet will tell you if they are suitable) but they are usually used with either memory foam mattress or latex mattresses which would all work fine on an adjustable base if they have a foam core (instead of an innerspring).

Some good basic information that may be worth reading just to give you some general information that will help you clarify some of the "mystery" about mattresses are in the overviews in the mattresses section of the site . I would scan these rather than "study" them so you can ask better questions.

There is a regional factory direct maufacturer in your area called Denver Mattress which carries a range of mattresses that would likely have better quality and value than most of the other choices in your area. I would focus on the brands they make rather than the major brands that they also carry and in particular I would look at the Aspen and the Snowmass which are latex mattresses which have good value. With your weight ... the firmer Snowmass may be a better choice between the two if you are comfortable with the pressure relief, support, and the overall feel of the mattress.

Another option I would consider if you are comfortable with the idea is to consider a purchase from one of our manufacturing members that make mattresses with much better quality and value than are available in many areas of the country and specialize in shipping anywhere across the country. They are all highly skilled in helping you make good choices and many of them allow you to actually choose the layers of foam in your mattress to best suit your needs and preferences. Some time spent on the phone with these (and they are listed in post #21 here ) telling them about your needs and preferences will help you a great deal whether you choose to go in this direction or not. Not all of these would be within your budget range but some of them definitely would and they are all much better quality and value than mattresses that most people in a similar budget range or even much higher would typically end up purchasing.

I do get hot when I sleep. Also, I believe if I were to get a big foamy, foamy mattress I would sink into the bed to much and might be a little harder for me to turn to my side.
I understand it is an important investment but I was looking to stay under $1,500 for the mattress.. if needed or simply feels amazing I could go up in price..


Of the two main types of specialty foams that you will find in mattresses (memory foam and latex) ... latex tends to be much cooler and is also much more motion friendly (it doesn't have a "memory" that can make movement more difficult). It is also the most durable and supportive generally available. I would tend to stay away from thick layers of polyfoam in the upper layers of your mattress because this tends to be lower quality and breaks down faster than higher quality foams. A layer of softer foam in the range of about 3" (either memory foam or latex) over a firmer layer for good support would be typical for someone of your weight and sleeping position. Depending on your preferences and pressure relief needs ... a medium soft top layer in the range of 24 - 28 ILD may work well. Your experience on the Aspen and the Snowmass may also help provide a guideline for the type of comfort layer that works for you.

Relax2Sleep is retail outlet that carries Sterling Sleep and Natura both of which make some high quality mattresses. While they will likely be outside of your budget ... they can provide some helpful guidelines about the type of mattress that may work for you if you decide on an online purchase.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: relax2sleep.net

Hope this helps and feel free to post any questions or comments along the way.

Phoenix
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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 04 Mar 2012 00:23 #257

Hi Phoenix, I really appreciated your fast response.

I was able to make a trip to Denver Mattress today, I tried out the Queen Snowmass with a Ergomotion 300 series base. I liked it very much. I'm confused on whether to get the reverie or ergomotion.. The Reverie says the head part goes up 70 degrees.. On the Ergomotion faq page it states it goes up 70 degrees, but does not state which model. That 70degrees is very important to me. I wanted to ask if you could help me out by telling me the differences between an Reverie Deluxe($1228) and the Ergomotion 300($1,199)?

I did prefer the Snowmass over the Aspen, the price is $1,129 for a Queen.. Is that a ok to good price on this mattress? The Construction materials being:
Quilt Layers:
Stretch Knit Ticking
1" 1.8lb High Density Foam
Natural Rayon Fire Barrier

Comfort Layers:
2" Talalay Latex

Support System:
6" Talalay Latex Core
2" 1.8lb High Resilient Foam

Also, the "sales man" did recommend buying a Perfect Harmony Isocool ($99) which he stated would prolong the mattresses life a little longer by absorbing sweat and moisture from my body before it would get to the mattress itself and keeps you very cool which intrigued me.
He also mentioned that he could not lower the prices on any of the featured products.. Only 15% on accessories.. Even if I paid cash which I found odd.. Is that normal on their own brands or have you heard that they do lower the prices a bit?

Can you please let me know your opinion on these prices and items I am looking to purchase? Just not sure about which adjustable base to get right now..

Thank you very much

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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 04 Mar 2012 04:41 #258

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Hi xps24,

I'm not familiar with the Ergomotion 300 (the Ergomotion website says it's not available in North America in spite of the fact that Denver Mattress seems to be carrying it). I did however test out the Ergomotion 400 which I believe is similar. I personally bought the Reverie Deluxe because I thought it had better overall value. The ergo models at that time only went to 60 degrees so I don't know if that has changed (many sites still say 60). The head raised a little higher than the Ergo (again I don't know if this is still true), the massage was a little better, and the weight capacity was a little higher (550 lbs vs 500 lbs including the mattress). The weight limits would be per single unit and a split unit would have double the capacity (this came directly from communications with Reverie). The Reverie Deluxe is available for $1099 with no shipping or tax from here (this is where I bought mine).
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: olejostores.com/reverie_deluxe_adjustable_bed_with_wireless_control_and_massage-9981.aspx

The price for the Snowmass is very good for a mattress that has 8" of latex and if you tested it for pressure relief and alignment and you like the feel of it ... the value is excellent.

I would avoid a mattress protector with thick layers of polyester fibers. They will compress and also reduce the feel of the latex. While a mattress protector is an essential part of your sleeping system ... there are many better choices IMO. If you do a forum "title search" (click forum search and then "search titles only") on "protector" or "cover" (without the quotes) there are many posts with a lot of information about the tradeoffs involved in a choice of mattress protector. I would tend to go with wool such as the Dormeir (much more breathable and temperature regulating but will affect the feel of the mattress a little more) or a thinner stretchable breathable/waterproof protector (which is less breathable but in most cases will affect the feel of the mattress a little less).
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: flobeds.com/products/2140CK/Pad/Accessory/Wool-Mattress-Pad/Cal-King-72%22-x-84%22

He also mentioned that he could not lower the prices on any of the featured products.. Only 15% on accessories.. Even if I paid cash which I found odd.. Is that normal on their own brands or have you heard that they do lower the prices a bit?


This is the "norm" with most reputable factory direct manufacturers who don't run fake sales like most of the mainstream outlets and run on smaller profit margins. There quality and value every day of the year is far better than the best of the "sale prices" that you see so heavily advertised elsewhere. Outlets that heavily discount their mattresses and run continuous sales are good places to avoid. Nobody ever pays their "regular" prices which are outrageously high and only listed to make their sale prices look better than they really are. You won't find a similar mattress (using similar materials) or anything close to it at a major outlet for anywhere near that price regardless of a sale or your ability to "negotiate" (another gimmick in mass market outlets that makes buyers feel good because they think they got an even better deal).

Phoenix
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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 07 Mar 2012 17:37 #259

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Thank you so much for this post! My wife and I were all set to buy an iComfort mattress when I found this topic. We've since come to apperciate the "wonders of latex" and are actually en route to OK Mattress right now to build us a perfect bed. :) I'd ask your advice, but after spending a few days reading through all the info and Q/As you've already provided, we feel like we know exactly what to look for. So instead, we just wanted to express our gratitude for all the time and effort you put into this! We're telling everyone we know about this site!

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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 07 Mar 2012 21:15 #260

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Hi cagezero,

Thanks for your kind comments ... and you sure do make my job easier when you already have a good idea of what you are looking for :)

I'm looking forward to any ongoing feedback you may choose to share about your experiences and choices.

Phoenix
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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 08 Mar 2012 16:38 #261

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Phoenix,

Yesterday my wife and I tried out a variety of different latex layer combinations at OK Mattress. Jim (the owner) and all his staff were extremely helpful, knowledgeable, and friendly. He spent a lot of time swapping out layers for us to lay on and talking to us about the ins and outs of latex. During this process we were able to try some layer combinations that were finished (laminated with ticking) and some that were unfinished (loosely stacked with no ticking). Jim advised us that an unfinished layer combination would feel significantly firmer when finished. This difference in test cases has left us with a little bit of uncertainty as to what mattress will truly be best for us.

My wife and I both weigh between 140 and 170lbs. She is 5'2 and I am 5'10. She mostly sleeps on her stomach, sometimes on her back. I sleep mostly on my back, sometimes on my stomach and every now and then on my side. I also have a history of back and neck problems, and have sleep apnea.

We found that we both enjoyed a finished mattress constructed of layers 2" firm, 6" medium, and 2" soft, but also enjoyed the plusher feel of stacked, unfinished 6" firm and 3" soft layers. I'm concerned, however, that the support offered by the 3"/6" combo might be too much by the end of the night. We're considering (but didn't get to try) a 3" firm, 4" medium, and 3" soft as a compromise between plushness and support. Given our situation, do you think we're on the right track with a 3"/4"/3"?

The latex at OK Mattress has the following ILD ratings:
firm = 32 - 35 ild
medium = 24 - 25 ild
soft = 17 - 19 ild

Any advice you might have will be greatly appreciated!

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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 08 Mar 2012 18:19 #262

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Hi cagezero,

It's no surprise that what they are telling you is accurate because they have been making mattresses for a very long time :)

Loose layers act softer than laminated layers because each layer acts a little more independently and can compress and pull inwards more without being "held back" as much by the layers above and below it.

Mattress ticking/quilting can also have a big effect on the final feel and properties of a mattress. Some of the reasons for this includes the type of material used and how stretchy it is ... how tight it is and how much it compresses the foam inside the mattress (making it firmer) ... the quilting pattern and quilting materials used (looser quilting patterns are softer and compressed fibers are firmer than softer fibers or foam), and the construction methods used. An unfinished layering will generally be the softest version of that particular layer combination because there is nothing to make it firmer.

Given your heights/weights and sleeping positions ... my tendency would be to go with a 2" top layer in the layering you mentioned mainly because this would put you closer to the support layers underneath and could provide better alignment particularly on your stomach and to a lesser degree your back. A medium 6" layer in between will "help" the comfort layers when you are on your side but also firm up quickly past a certain point to help with alignment as well.

If you are testing two mattresses that are roughly comparable in terms of how they feel ... then the slightly firmer choice is usually better for the long term. Too soft or thick is very difficult to "fix" while a layer that turns out to be a little too thin or firm can be easily be "fixed" with a thin topper.

Overall though ... Oklahoma mattress will have a lot of experience with the difference between loose layers and their final product and also with fitting a mattress to the needs and preferences of their customers. If there is ever a "conflict" between someone who gives "theory at a distance" without the ability to actually see how you interact with a mattress and someone who has the knowledge and skill from many years of making mattresses and can actually see you lying on a mattress and hear your feedback in real time ... there is no doubt that i would go with the recommendations of the local manufacturer.

Phoenix
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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 14 Mar 2012 21:06 #263

You appear to spend a lot of time on this forum, and it appears there are a lot of us that are thankful you do!

I started looking for a mattress and went to buy a Sleep Number based on a friend's recommendation. I actually did purchase it, but then cancelled the purchase after realizing the model I chose did not have their 30-night free trial.

Having just been diagnosed with moderate to severe stenosis and "extrusions" of my back, I started doing some online research on mattresses. It appeared the memory foam was the recommended mattress for back problems, so I visited a store and was researching the Tempurpedic Cloud series. I was concerned about how hot they can feel, and doing further research led me to the gel memory foam mattresses. Then I came upon your mattress forum, and am thankful I did before spending over $4000 on a mattress and adjustable base.

I saw your post on the adjustable base you purchased, so thank you for that. Now I'm pretty confused about all the types of mattresses and where to buy, etc. I'm in the Phoenix, AZ area and I know there are a lot of local mattress dealers here but not sure of manufacturers. I just did an on-line chat with a company called "simply-rest.com" which does online sales only. I do not want to buy a mattress online without having tried it out first. I researched latex mattresses after reading this forum, but it sounds like there's all sorts of things to check out.

I am 60 years old, 5'6" and 230 pounds, and have had numerous abdominal surgeries. I toss and turn every night. My sleeping preference used to be my stomach, but after all the surgeries, I alternate between both sides, stomach, and back. Now with the back problems, I really want to purchase the best that I can and am willing to spend the money. But as you point out, spending the money isn't necessarily the best thing.

Although I know it's good to have a trial period, I would prefer to get the bed I want on the first try. Between my own health issues I also take care of my mother, who is under hospice care at home, so it is difficult to get out and go very many places.

Your assistance would be invaluable and greatly appreciated. Thanking you in advance for any recommendations you can give.

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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 14 Mar 2012 22:54 #264

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Hi dottie,

You are fortunate to be in Phoenix as there are several very high quality and knowledgeable factory direct manufacturers nearby including two of the members of this site (meaning I consider them to be among the best of the independent manufacturers in the country) which offer great quality and value and perhaps more importantly have a lot of knowledge in fitting a mattress to an individual's needs and preferences. This thread and post #4 here should be very helpful.

I would not order online when there are such great options available locally that have better quality and value and that you can personally test. If you want to keep your choices down for the sake of time ... I would focus my efforts on the two manufacturers that are members here.

In cases like yours ... memory foam can be very tricky because not only is pressure relief very important (which memory foam like latex does very well), spinal alignment can be even more important and the many different types of memory foam layering options can mean the difference between a mattress that can work well for you and a mattress that doesn't work well at all (usually too thick in the comfort layers or support layers that are not the best for you). Memory foam is only a pressure relieving material and if the layers are too thick or otherwise unsuitable for your particular needs or the support system under the memory foam isn't what you need ... it can cause more harm than good.

The Gel memory foams are also an emerging category and there are several different types, some of which are better than others. In general ... I would tend to avoid the types of gel memory foams that use gel particles mixed in the memory foam (like the icomfort) as particles added to memory foam can weaken the memory foam. There is an analysis and review of the iComfort lineup in post #11 here (none of which have good value) and a brief overview of the different types of gel memory foam options in post #26 here .

Hope this helps ... and I only wish that the rest of the country had local choices that were as good as yours.

Phoenix
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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 14 Mar 2012 23:44 #265

Thank you, Phoenix. Those are terrific information links to other threads. I read everything in this particular thread, but there's so much more information you've given out there.

I'll definitely contact the two member mattress firms listed on the #4 "eco" thread.

Thanks again. (And my back thanks you in advance as well :-) )

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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 17 Mar 2012 14:48 #266

You provided me with some excellent information the other day. Since then I've been visiting mattress manufacturers, mattress retailers and doing a lot of online searching. I went and visited the mattresses.net showroom/manufacturer and looked a their latex beds. I didn't find any of them extraordinarily comfortable, except for the 3" latex mattress topper.

I like the feel of memory foam, but not the full bed. I started researching latex/memory foam mattresses, and came across several sites selling natural latex, memory foam, AND air mattresses - plushbeds.com, habitatfurnishings.com, and flobeds.com. I was wondering if you had any experience or knowledge of any of these. Another brand of mattresses I've looked at were Natura.

I plan on purchasing a queen mattress (it's just for me) and putting it on an adjustable base. I like the idea that you can adjust the firmness someone by having the air pump, but also have the latex and memory foam as well.

Any advice or insight you can give me will be greatly appreciated.

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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 17 Mar 2012 16:15 #267

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Hi DOTTIE,

As you probably know ... I am a big believer in local testing and choices over an online outlet when the mattress, quality and value is similar. In your case ... you have some local manufacturers that offer some of the best value in a range of mattresses in the entire country. I would never make an online purchase that I hadn't personally tested when this range of selection in all types of mattresses and this kind of value was available for me to actually test with personal experience. I generally even suggest it's worth paying a premium to some degree to purchase something locally that i could personally test as being suitable for my needs and preferences (to a degree at least) but I would never pay a premium to make an online purchase when a similar mattress is available locally at a better price.

I am very familiar with all of the outlets you mentioned (plushbeds, habitat, flobeds, and Natura). A search on the forum for each will bring up lots of posts about all of them. Of these 4 ... Plushbeds and flobeds would be better value IMO but for you they would all (except Natura which is good quality but poor value) be an "unknown" online purchase and none of them would have the value of what is already available to you in a similar mattress purchased locally that you could test personally. No matter how high quality the ingredients in all of them may be (and all 4 use quality materials) ... it's always more accurate to determine the suitability of any mattress for your own personal needs and preferences with actual experience than with an online purchase and if what the online outlets you are offering is available locally at better prices ... then for me the choice of which direction to go would be fairly easy.

Hope this helps

Phoenix
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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 19 Mar 2012 02:50 #268

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Aloha Phoenix,

Might you be able to recommend some mattress manufacturers on Oahu that I might be able to purchase good/high quality memory foam mattresses from, please?, or am I stuck with Amazon.com (Costco and/or Sam's Club don't stock the Sleep Innovations/Novaform mattresses here, and they don't ship them here)?

If I'm stuck with Amazon.Com .. what would be your recommendation for a matress in the $800 range, please?

I am 5'10" and 280 lbs, my better 1/2 is 5'6" and 160 lbs.

Mahalo for you time & help!

HawaiianKine

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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 19 Mar 2012 19:18 #269

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Hi HawaiianKine,

The only local manufacturer that I know of in Hawaii is listed in post #2 here

I believe that the "best" first step in shopping for a mattress online is to find a manufacturer or outlet that provides accurate information about their mattresses and the materials in it and is also skilled at
fitting" their mattresses to your needs and preferences. Once you have done this ... then choosing a mattress with their knowledge and guidance that fits your height, weight, body shape, sleeping positions, and preferences is much simpler. Of course the more testing you have done locally on mattresses that have a known constructions ... the easier it is to use your testing as a prototype for the type of mattress that would work best for you.

Each manufacturer uses different types of foam and has different types of materials, layering schemes and construction methods in their line of mattresses and sometimes small differences in construction can make a big difference in how well a mattress works for any individual. All of them have a "databank" of customers who have purchased their specific mattresses so the better ones are very good at knowing what an "average" person of a particular weight, shape, sleeping position, and preferences would normally be happy with.

If you are committed to memory foam ... then the density of the memory foam and the specific type of memory foam becomes important. With weights over 200 lbs or so ... memory foam under 5 lbs won't hold up nearly as long as higher density/quality memory foam. In addition to this ... the different types of memory foam (more or less breathable, more or less responsive, more or less temperature sensitive etc) and the different layering pattens in the mattress (how thick is the memory foam, what type of support system is under it etc) becomes a major part of how suitable any particular memory foam mattress may be for you.

So the first step is to choose a manufacturer or store rather than a specific mattress. If you do choose to make an online purchase without the guidance of someone who "knows their stuff" and can advise you on which of their specific mattresses may work best for you or without local "testing" to act as a reference point ... then the choice of a mattress becomes much more hit and miss and the refund policy of the outlet becomes more important than the choice of mattress itself because there is no way to know if an online choice will be suitable for you without actually trying it no matter how good the quality of materials may be.

So my recommendation would be more to help you find the better outlets who are familiar with the specifics of the materials and layering in their specific mattress and to provide some general guidelines about the layering of the mattress that may work for you rather than suggest a specific mattress. A second recommendation would be to avoid the use of any memory foam density under 5 lbs for heavier weights unless you prefer its feel and response and durability was a secondary issue (and this may be difficult to find in a budget of under $800 depending on the size you want and on whether it includes a foundation). I certainly wouldn't consider the Novaform/Sleep Innovations as a better option. A few of the outlets that I believe may be better choices for online memory foam purchases are in post #12 here

The more a manufacturer knows how to help you "match" a specific mattress to your specific needs and preferences ... the less you need to research and know yourself.

A quick look at some of your local options that may provide better testing grounds (if they will provide you with the specifics of the layering in their mattresses) include ...

www.slumberworldhawaii.com/ Oahu, Maui, Hawaii (big island). The carry several major brands (such as Sealy and Simmons and Tempurpedic which I would avoid) and also some more expensive brands like Organicpedic (OMI), Vi Spring and Aireloom) but they also carry a house brand called Island Dreams which I would focus on here. They are quite knowledgeable and open about the materials in their mattress if customers ask and tend to focus more on fitting a mattress to the needs and preferences of their customers and on value than they are on price alone which means that they are more concerned about their customer's long term satisfaction than they are on just making the sale and the profit. Of the local retail outlets ... this would be my first choice for testing but avoiding the major brands they carry may mean their selection is more limited.

www.dakinemattress.com/ Hawaii (big island). Carries mattresses made by Stress-o-pedic and by Leader who are both smaller manufacturers who typically make mattresses that are better quality/value than larger brands. The mattresses on their floor are mostly lower to mid budget (under $1000 or so queen) and mainly polyfoam/innerspring mattresses although they do carry one memory foam mattress (made by Leader) which uses 5 lb memory foam. In my conversation with them though, they are more focused on price and "comfort" than on value and quality meaning that they are less inclined to talk about the actual materials in their mattresses than they are on the price of their mattresses alone. This is likely because they may not have access to this type of information from their manufacturers. You may need to do some extra research to find out the quality of the materials in many of their mattresses.

www.mauibedstore.com/ Maui. Carry a wide range of Lady Americana including latex hybrids, memory foam, gel memory foam, and innersprings that may have some better quality and value. They also may not be able to provide the details of all the materials in their mattresses (when I talked with a salesperson there it was not the type of information she had access to or would normally provide) so I would make sure here as well that you are given (or can find out) all the information you will need before making a purchase here.

There is nothing at America's Mattress (Serta) that I would consider for a purchase. You can see for example the details of the quality and value of the iComfort lineup in post #11 here ). If you do include them in your testing ... I would avoid any temptation or sales technique that may get you to buy anything here.

Hope this helps

Phoenix
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Re: The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz 22 Mar 2012 12:39 #270

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Hi Phoenix,

I would really appreciate your advice purchasing a new mattress. I am 6'4 and 240 lbs and my fiancee is 5'6 and 130 lbs. We are both mostly side sleepers, although we occasionally sleep on our backs. We purchased a Serta iComfort Insight back in September and initially were very pleased. I would say the first three months were great; we seemed to be getting a more restful night sleep and I was no longer waking up with lower back pain. I attribute this to having better support than our last mattress, which was several years old. Well, after the first three months the supportiveness of the iComfort started diminishing and now it is to the point where it is uncomfortable to sleep on either my back or my side and I am waking up with lower back pain again. Basically, it feels like the foam top layer just caves in when I lay on it now. My fiancee agrees. Even though she weighs substantially less than I do, she says the comfort and supportiveness have diminished and she is no longer getting the restful sleep she was the first few months. If I lay right in the middle of the bed, where neither of us ever normally lay, the bed is just as supportive as the first month we bought it, so I know that we are not misremembering the initial comfort or support of the mattress.

So, with all that being said, we are returning it and want to start looking at getting something different. This was our first time trying a memory foam bed and I think we want to stay away from this style going forward. Perhaps with my size and weight, I need to stick with a more traditional spring mattress to maintain support? My fiancee likes her side a little softer, but she says she can always put on a foam topper on if she needs to. Any suggestions on types of mattresses and/or places to purchase from? We have a Sleep Number store close by, but I am not convinced their beds are worth the price tag. I live in Little Rock, AR.

Thanks,
Brad

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