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Re: Never thought... 14 Jul 2012 19:46 #46

  • matpro171
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So first night was interesting. I didn't sleep very well, and I realize a lot of factors can contribute to that, so I'm not freaking out just yet, but I did notice some interesting things. Latex is very responsive stuff. If my wife moved, I could really feel it on my side. Also, I wasn't able to sleep on my side at all last night, which is ironic because this mattress was designed to create comfortable side sleeping and I'm a side sleeper. I feel unstable on my side. It seems like the mattress doesn't really grab me at all and I could roll right off at any second. However I did sleep surprisingly well for a bit on my back, which is uncommon for me. It's been said before that pillow preference could change quit a bit with the mattress and I'm noticing that as well. In the shoulders Bob designed a 14 - 19 - 36 arrangement which is supposed to allow my shoulders to sink in, which has also made sleeping with a big pillow uncomfortable. I almost feel like I could go for no pillow at all. I also kinda feel like I'm laying at a strange angle where my head is lower than my feet. So all of this is feeling like I need some time to get used to the new arrangement. I'm still hopeful that the mattress will end up being very comfortable for us, though I'm nervous if it doesn't because I really don't know what I would change to improve it.

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Re: Never thought... 14 Jul 2012 21:28 #47

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hi matpro171,

So first night was interesting.


It certainly is interesting and is the beginning of the journey from being hyper aware of a new mattress and how it feels to the longer term experience of forgetting about it completely ... especially with a material that you are not used to or that is different from what you have slept on before. A few thoughts and comments because your comments bring up some interesting points ...

The first ... and possibly the most important piece of "advice" is to go very slow. As you mentioned ... when you (and/or your mattress) are going through the initial adjustment period ... impressions of a single day or a few days can be more of an anomaly and be the result of many other factors. This is true of both initial impressions and also a few days impressions in the middle of an adjustment period. The "patterns" of how you feel over the course of a few weeks ... especially initially with a new material ... is always more accurate than the sometimes fluctuating experiences or feelings of a few days.

Latex is very responsive stuff.


This is certainly very true. Latex is the most "responsive" or resilient of all foam materials.

If my wife moved, I could really feel it on my side.


This is also feedback that others report and some are more sensitive to than others and can be affected by either the softness of the latex or the "newness" of the cover. Smaller movements with softer latex can sometimes create "ripples" that can be felt (unlike memory foam which absorbs energy) and a tighter cover that hasn't had a chance to break in yet can also make a difference. Larger movements are generally more isolated than other materials although this too can be affected by the firmness and layering of the latex.

Also, I wasn't able to sleep on my side at all last night, which is ironic because this mattress was designed to create comfortable side sleeping and I'm a side sleeper.


The ILD of your comfort layers are typical of either very light or broad shouldered side sleepers that need their shoulders to sink in more than average. 14 and 19 ILD latex is as soft as it gets ( 24 is "soft", 19 is "plush" and 14 is "super plush" ). This is the softest latex that is commercially available and anything softer would have to be custom poured.

I feel unstable on my side. It seems like the mattress doesn't really grab me at all and I could roll right off at any second.


The resilience of latex is part of this but you also have 5" of very soft latex on top which may mean that you are not resting as "solidly" on the firmer latex which would feel more "stable". Bob of course will be well familiar with this feeling and any necessary adjustments that are needed if this persists but it's generally the "jiggly" feel that some people talk about when someone is coming to rest on layers that are not as firm. This would typically require a firmness increase in a particular layer (likely middle but Bob is the expert here with his mattresses) to create a more "stable" feel. Some people have compared the feel of very soft latex that is softer and thicker than they need or prefer to being on a balloon. If you compress "through" the softer layers and come to rest on firmer layers ... it would be like "going through" the balloon and resting on the firmer surface below it rather than "stopping" in the middle of the balloon and feeling unstable.

However I did sleep surprisingly well for a bit on my back, which is uncommon for me.


This would also be important longer term feedback for Bob and is likely because your back is a flatter area with a much larger surface to spread out the pressure on the softer latex.

It's been said before that pillow preference could change quit a bit with the mattress and I'm noticing that as well. In the shoulders Bob designed a 14 - 19 - 36 arrangement which is supposed to allow my shoulders to sink in, which has also made sleeping with a big pillow uncomfortable.


A pillow is an important part of the sleeping system and as you mentioned thinner pillows are often needed with softer mattresses because the "gap" from the head to the surface of the mattress is less. This is also affected by the sleeping position or combination of sleeping positions.

I also kinda feel like I'm laying at a strange angle where my head is lower than my feet. So all of this is feeling like I need some time to get used to the new arrangement.


This would also be valuable feedback if it persists as a "pattern". This is because the design of the mattress allows the upper body to sink in more than the lower part of the body (which is where most of the weight is) and even though this is a key part of how it creates better alignment ... it can be different from what people are used to and may feel this way because of the 'sleeping memory" compared to the mattresses you have been used to before. Like almost everything else about the mattress ... this can also be adjusted.

So all of this is feeling like I need some time to get used to the new arrangement. I'm still hopeful that the mattress will end up being very comfortable for us, though I'm nervous if it doesn't because I really don't know what I would change to improve it.


As I mentioned ... even though it is almost inevitable to do so ... initial impressions on a new material have far less value than longer term impressions as both of you go through an initial adjustment. This is true of all mattresses that involve different materials. For example ... Tempurpedic owners will often take 90 days or even longer before they get used to the feel of a new material as both they and the new mattress adjust. All new mattress/people combinations are like this to differing degrees.

Of course one of the advantages of your choice is that with longer term feedback ... Bob will know what if any adjustments are needed to change the feel and performance of the mattress to "customize" it to what you need and prefer. There are many possible changes that can be made with a design that is so flexible in it's options. Your first few weeks are in a way like testing mattresses in a store except you get to test it over the course of many nights to make sure your impressions are "accurate" and can be trusted to create a "final version. Built into the design of your mattress are dozens of possible alternative "mattresses" that you can change to if necessary where each part and section of the mattress or your impressions on it can be customized.

The only thing that can't be changed is that it's a latex mattress :)

Thanks for sharing your initial impressions and I'm looking forward to your ongoing feedback as the patterns of your experience begin to show themselves more clearly.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: Never thought... 17 Jul 2012 07:30 #48

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I don't know if there is something strange going on with me, or if it's the adjustment process, or if this is simply not a good mattress for me, but I have not slept well at all since having my CSD mattress. I have worse back pain than before and I'm not sleeping much. For whatever reason, it takes a long time to fall asleep and I wake up much earlier than expected with this feeling that I couldn't go back to sleep if I wanted and my body wants to be out of the bed. Also, I've still yet to be able to sleep on my side. I'm going out of town for the week, so I'll have a chance to see how I'm sleeping on random beds and come back home with a different perspective. Who would have thought?

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Re: Never thought... 17 Jul 2012 18:45 #49

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Hi matpro,

Who would have thought?


I would have for one but then I am very familiar with the differences between different types of layering and how they can change the feel, performance, and perceptions of different mattress/people combinations :)

While of course it's possible that no latex layering at all will work for you (in which case either latex is just not "your material" or a different material needs to be added to the mix in some way) ... it's far more likely that if certain patterns or symptoms and their "source" become clear that various types of adjustments will be the pathway to an "ideal" layering.

The only thing that can't be changed and adjusted is the fact that it is Talalay latex :)

Within that "limitation" ... pretty much anything to do with pressure relief, alignment and support, preferences, and feel can be adjusted. I would also make sure that I talked with Bob about your experiences to take advantage of his knowledge and experience with the adjustments that are possible or would be beneficial and may move you in the direction you want to go.

I'm looking forward to more of your ongoing feedback when you return.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: Never thought... 01 Aug 2012 22:35 #50

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I'm curious to hear more from Matpro too... I hope his mattress experience is improving!

I had my first vacation away from my mattress since I got it, and boy did I miss it! My 1st night back home and I didn't want to get up the next morning. Knowing that would be a bad decision for my floors and the dog I did finally get up, but it was out of necessity :lol:

If you're in CT (or near the New Haven area) and you need a new mattress I'd shop CSS. I definitely got the product I paid for and supported a local US business at the same time. Win-win to me.

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Re: Never thought... 05 Sep 2012 19:30 #51

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Hey Everyone,

It's been a while since I've checked-in. I haven't forgotten my promise to do a proper review, I'm still learning about my mattress is all! As far as what's new, I've definitely gotten more comfortable with my mattress. I sleep better all around and I don't wake up with the back pain. Also, the mattress is no longer "throwing me off." Nonetheless, it's still not a $3,000 sleep, so I've been playing tag with Bob and we've finally talked about what to do next. As soon as I sent in pictures, he was able to make quick and decisive recommendations for improvements. Hopefully the replacement foams will be in soon and I will update again, but all-in-all, I'm feeling much less remorseful about the purchase and more hopeful that it's going to be a great value.

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Re: Never thought... 05 Sep 2012 21:12 #52

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Hi matpro171,

I'm glad to hear that things are looking better and the back pain is gone. I'm also looking forward to hearing about your final version. Sometimes the "best" version happens the first time and sometimes it's a process ... but the good news is that the process is available for those who need it.

Thanks again for keeping us up to date :)

Phoenix
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Re: Never thought... 06 Oct 2012 11:46 #53

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Update - ...Still waiting. It's been over a month since Bob promised the replacement foam. I emailed a few days ago, but haven't heard back. The only way anything gets done is if I call him every week and hound him about it, and that doesn't help much. It's so frustrating! I've called him more than a dozen times. I'm tired of doing their job for them. I've decided I'm not calling him anymore. I've already emailed him, which shouldn't have been necessary, and doing all the leg work for a company that charges a premium has me feeling like a sucker. It's been over 4 months and I'm still waiting on CSD to deliver on promises made early in the process. I know I have a good mattress, but it cost enough money, it should never have cost so much time and frustration.

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Re: Never thought... 06 Oct 2012 18:40 #54

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Hi matpro171,

I talked to Bob today and you can see my thoughts about what he said, the delays you have been and are experiencing, and what I believe should be done in this post .

I hope that you will receive some meaningful communications from CSD next week and I would appreciate any updates you may have along the way.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: Never thought... 25 Nov 2012 01:57 #55

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My CSD Review

Price: 2,666.72 with 10% Memorial Day Sale and 5% MattressUnderground discount.
Expected Delivery: 4 weeks
Actual Delivery: 6 Weeks
Pros: Quality of sleep is good, back pain is rare, and we find the mattress comfortable. Replacement foam was sent for free. I like the idea of being able to replace any piece of the mattress at any point and so in theory, I may never buy a new bed again, but simply replace the appropriate piece as necessary.
Cons: Price was high, the wait was excruciating, and Bob was not good about being straight forward until it was already pretty obvious that he wasn't being completely upfront with me. Also, although I sleep pretty well, neither my wife or myself have the straight spines that the bed would theoretically create, and that is after installing replacement foam. I should note, however, that my wife is pretty close to straight and my body is difficult to design for as my shoulders are fairly wide in relation to my hips. Also, I should note that I do not have a headboard and sometime our mattress scoots away from the wall a few inches. This causes us to sleep too "high" up the mattress as our pillows lodge between the wall and bed, which in turn causes us to wake with very stiff backs due to sleeping in the mattress "incorrectly." This is a problem that is unique to the CSD design.

Context: This was my first latex mattress. My previous mattress was a sleep number and it had become very uncomfortable in the second year of use. I woke up with back pain most days, and I tossed a lot. It took some getting used to, but the latex is far more comfortable at this point for both my wife and I. CSD makes a great mattress, but the delays for the mattress and replacement foam were really bad considering the premium rates being charged. Also, Bob was bad about not calling to inform us of delays, and extending the deadline week by week by week. Now that we've had the mattress for several months, my wife and I like it much better than our previous bed, but as we've never experienced another latex mattress, it's hard to say to what extend the CSD approach is worthwhile. I am hoping that over the life of the mattress, the extra money and frustration payed up front will pay off and we can extend the life of the mattress by replacing the layers that break down.

Hopefully this review is helpful for others considering CSD. If I could do anything different, I would have really made Bob commit to delivering in his time frame, or reducing his price to accommodate the delays. Please feel free to contact me with specific questions.

A very big and sincere thank you to Phoenix and all the others who contribute to this site - it is very needed.

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Re: Never thought... 25 Sep 2013 12:04 #56

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What did you LIKE about CT Mattress? Did you find them knowledgeable about their products and it was just that they didn't carry what you were looking for? I bought a bed 15y ago from Better Bedding and had a great experience with them. I saw that Tom fought Sleepys in court and lost so he opened 2 small stores in CT. I'm just outside of Springfield. I prefer to give my business to a local rather than a chain. I've been reading about Worley's but it's a long trip for me. Thanks for your input.

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