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Re: Serta Icomfort vs Sealy Memoryworks 23 Aug 2012 10:01 #31

  • joeyTOB
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Just a comment I would have to say I disagree somewhat with, I think you should absolutely take into an account the name brands of the mattresses. Should it be the only thing no. Serta, Sealy, Tempurpedic, Simmons....... they make good stuff, you dont get to be as big as they are without making a quality products. Sure they have different levels of products but again, a lot of never buy a nae brand and that just not the case. I compete against those guys and definately think I carry better product but I never put them down based upon name. I am sure I am going to get several loooooooonnnnnnggggg responses on this but just needed to state my opinion on an issue that keeps arising on these boards which kind of bugged me.

Also, original mattress factory (OMF) is a huge franchised company. They have great marketing and they make you feel like they are a one of a kind but in reality they are not they are just like MF, Sleepys, AM....... a large corporatation. Does that effect there quality- no, do they have good products- sure, Are they a local small manufacturer- NO.

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Last edit: by joeyTOB.

Re: Serta Icomfort vs Sealy Memoryworks 23 Aug 2012 16:30 #32

Hi joeyTOB,

Also, original mattress factory (OMF) is a huge franchised company. They have great marketing and they make you feel like they are a one of a kind but in reality they are not they are just like MF, Sleepys, AM....... a large corporatation. Does that effect there quality- no, do they have good products- sure, Are they a local small manufacturer- NO.


Let me share a couple of things with you that you may not be aware of and that will bring some facts to bear on what you are saying here about OMF.

First of all ... they are not a franchise ... all their retail locations are company owned which is why their culture is more consistent from store to store.

Second ... they are completely transparent about the materials they use in their mattresses. Their quality is provable and not a matter of blind faith. An example just happened today which will make my point. I phoned one of their locations today at random (in Raleigh, NC) to find out some information about the materials that are in their mattresses (foam densities). The person that answered took the immediate supportive position that what I was asking was indeed important and said he didn't know the answer but would find out for me. Within 5 minutes he called me back and gave me the specs of many of the foams they use in their mattresses (more than I had asked for).

The specs he gave me were ...

The 1" foam layers are 1.5 lb density and 11-18 ILD (I hadn't asked for the ILD)

The 1/4" layer is 1.25 lb density and 40 ILD.

The thicker 3" layers in their pillowtops are 2.75 lb polyfoam (close to the highest used in the industry and true HR polyfoam).

In addition to this they use cotton in their mattresses to even out the foam response.

These are the specs of higher quality/value materials in their price ranges and if I was using them in my mattress I would be advertising it as well. In other words when they say they are using higher quality materials in their mattresses than anything used by major brands and that they have better value ... they are speaking the truth and they will prove it to anyone who wants to know.

In addition to this ... their president used to be the president of Sealy (Ohio mattress company) and broke away when they were about to be bought out through a leveraged buyout to start his own company that was dedicated to doing all the things that Sealy would clearly no longer be doing with the bean counters taking control of the company.

Their success is a result of a different philosophy that provides consumers with better materials and products at lower prices ... not because they are doing the same things as so many of the major manufacturers. That they are rated so highly in consumer surveys (#1 in mattress manufacturing or "brand" among larger recognized companies and #2 in retail outlets) is the result of the company philosophy ... not marketing stories that have no basis in fact.

So when you make generalizations or blanket statements like you are and they can't be supported with factual information ... is it really doing anyone any favors?

Just a comment I would have to say I disagree somewhat with, I think you should absolutely take into an account the name brands of the mattresses. Should it be the only thing no. Serta, Sealy, Tempurpedic, Simmons....... they make good stuff, you dont get to be as big as they are without making a quality products. Sure they have different levels of products but again, a lot of never buy a nae brand and that just not the case. I compete against those guys and definately think I carry better product but I never put them down based upon name. I am sure I am going to get several loooooooonnnnnnggggg responses on this but just needed to state my opinion on an issue that keeps arising on these boards which kind of bugged me.


On the other hand ... none of what I asked OMF today would have been available if I had called any of the "S" companies or Tempurpedic about the quality specs of their mattresses (although Tempurpedic is more transparent than the others). I would have had to jump through hoops and barrels and still ended up not knowing what was really in their mattresses. In these cases ... the advertising has no real substance or completely transparent information behind it.

It may be true that they "make good stuff" but I would sure like to know how you define "good" and how you know this is true. Can you give me an example of a major brand mattress that you consider to be "good" and why and that you know the specs of every layer in their mattress? If I sleep on a mattress and I change the label that is on it ... I don't think that I or anyone would sleep any differently. A mattress is only as good as the materials in it no matter what the label on the mattress. If a company doesn't disclose what is in their mattresses or uses lower quality materials ... then no matter how they became so large or what they did in their past ... the label now indicates a company that has a pattern of using lower quality or unknown materials in their mattresses and sells them for higher prices than manufacturers that are fully transparent and use higher quality materials. Size is not the reason they are such low quality and value ... it's the culture and values of the major companies and this has changed over the past decade and a half ... and consumers haven't yet "caught up" to this new reality or been given the means to find out for themselves.

Many companies are large because of what they did in the past but I'm sure you are well aware that what they are currently doing and who and what they were accountable to in the past is completely different. They are no longer primarily focused on quality but on economics and what they primarily sell is not mattresses but profit margin to their major customers (the mass market outlets and chain stores).

I should also mention that there are also many smaller manufacturers who are not much different and are more focused on profit margins than they are on growing their company through a reputation of verifiable quality. Size is not the issue here ... transparency, quality, value, and service based on meaningful information is the goal.

Tempurpedic is similar. At one point they had real value because they used a material where nobody else has anything similar or at least similar quality in their own mattresses. They were unique and had no apples to apples competition. The reputation they gained in that time served them well when other foam manufacturers began to make memory foam that was the same quality as they used and this allowed them to charge premium prices for the same quality materials as other manufacturers because consumers continued to believe that they were still "unique" which of course was supported by their heavy brand advertising. Their niche was fractured and they "owned" it. Now of course ... since Serta had such an advertising coup with their iComfort ... consumers in general are recognizing that Tempurpedic is not alone in their niche and that they may not even have the best quality available. This consumer awareness ... although based on competing advertising more than any substance about the quality of the iComforts ... has cost Tempurpedic dearly in their share prices and market share and this is likely to continue.

In response ... they decided to introduce a "less expensive" Tempurpedic with the Simplicity line but instead of using high quality materials ... they decided to use the equity in their name to mislead consumers into believing that their new "less expensive" line has similar quality to their higher priced models and that they are better "value". They took the low road by using 2" of some of the lowest quality memory foam that is available anywhere (2.5 lb density) and putting this over a lower quality base foam (@ 1.8 lb) and then continuing to sell their new line for twice the price of what other mattresses that use similar quality materials are charging. In other words ... their new line is just as poor value in today's market (not yesterday's market) as their other mattresses.

So ... I continue to promote the value of never buying a brand but to focus on the quality of materials in a mattress. This is the only way to know the real quality and value of what you are buying and the manufacturers or "brands" who recognize this and want consumers to know this type of information and make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses will be the first to tell you that their brand is not the reason they have such good value. It's the commitment of their ownership to providing genuine consumer quality and value that can be validated and where their "stories" (if they advertise at all) have substance and are not just marketing techniques.

So hopefully this will add some context and more importantly "facts" to this discussion rather than just becoming nothing more than competing opinions that have no basis behind them.

I am sure I am going to get several loooooooonnnnnnggggg responses on this but just needed to state my opinion on an issue that keeps arising on these boards which kind of bugged me.


I don't do "sound bytes" very well :)

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: Serta Icomfort vs Sealy Memoryworks 23 Aug 2012 23:33 #33

Thanks a lot Phoenix. You have been of great help. Ill let you know how my search turns out.

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Re: Serta Icomfort vs Sealy Memoryworks 27 Nov 2012 12:40 #34

Hi Cheftoni,

Rather than purchasing any major brand ... you would almost certainly get much better quality and value in any type of mattress ... including memory foam ... from a smaller independent manufacturer. If you let me know where you are I'd be happy to take a look and see if there are any near you.

Hope this helps a bit and if you let me know some of your "stats" I'll be happy to go into more detail.

Phoenix


Hi Phoenix,

I am looking for a new mattress and I think I have chosen to go with Memory Foam. I am a side and back sleeper. My main concerns are heat and cost and comfort due to neck/back injury. I was originally choosing between Beauty Rest Black, Stearns and Foster Estate, and Tempurpedic. I have now narrowed it down to Tempurpedic Cloud Supreme and iComfort Savant. I prefer a firm mattress, but the Firms in iComfort are very firm so I prefer the Savant.

After reading reviews, I decided I should probably go for iComfort over Tempurpedic since Tempurpedic gets so hot. My wife gets gets warm at night on our current innerspring mattress so I was hoping to avoid that and go with an iComfort. However, after coming across this forum I thought I would ask if there is something similar to iComfort/Tempurpedic that is comfortable, does not get hot and without the hefty price tag.

I like in Philadelphia, PA and would like to know if there are any mattress dealers you can suggest and which brand/models do you recommend?

Also - I am frequently in Alexandria, Virigina (Northern Virginia) and can look there as long as it does impact shipping. I am moving and need to decide as soon as possible so I have something to sleep on upon moving since I am getting rid of my ten year old mattress.

Thanks!
Bilal

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Re: Serta Icomfort vs Sealy Memoryworks 27 Nov 2012 19:09 #35

Hi thecallmebill,

I think the first suggestion I would make is to read post #1 here which is a step by step process that can greatly help improve the odds of finding the best quality/value mattress in your area that is the most suitable for your needs and preferences.

As you can see from the information that is linked in the post ... I would personally avoid all of the brands you are mentioning.

I would also never shop by brand or brand recommendations (except for the major brands which I would exclude) but only by the combination of materials that are in a mattress and how well they meet your needs and preferences. These materials are available to any manufacturer and a mattress is only as good as the materials that are in it and how well they suit your body type, sleeping positions, and individual preferences regardless of the brand label on the mattress. No matter what materials you prefer ... making sure they are the highest quality available in your budget is the key to quality, value and durability.

Because the quality of the materials that are in your mattress is the most important part of it's long term performance ... who you buy from can be even more important than what you buy.

Arming yourself with some basic information about the different materials and types of mattress and then working with either manufacturers or better sleep shops that offer good quality, value, and service and will fully disclose the details of every layer of the mattresses will lead to the best possible choices available ... regardless of the brand.

Some of the better options or possibilities in the Philadelphia area are in post #4 here .

The list for the Northern Virginia and Washington, DC area is in post #2 here .

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: Serta Icomfort vs Sealy Memoryworks 20 Jul 2014 18:58 #36

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Re: Serta Icomfort vs Sealy Memoryworks 20 Jul 2014 19:29 #37

Hi thatsdopefoo,

The first place I would start your mattress research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that you will need to make the best possible choices in any budget range ... and know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

You can read a little more about SilverRest in post #4 here and a forum search on Silverrest (you can just click the link) will bring up more information about them as well.

I would be very cautious here because the specs they list on the Amazon site don't match their shipping weight (similar to some of the other comments I linked) and it's very likely that the quality of the memory foam is lower than what they are listing. In a queen size ... if the top 3" of memory foam was really 5.3 lb density then the top layer alone would weigh about 44 lbs and since the mattress is listed as weighing 70 lbs that means the 7" support core would weight less than 25 lbs (after taking the cover into account) and this would mean that the density of the support core would only be 1.2 lbs. It's much more likely that the memory foam is lower density than they are listing.

The tutorial post also includes several links to some of the better online options I'm aware of (in the optional online step) and they include some much less risky and better quality value options that I would consider.

Post #4 here includes some of the better lower budget memory foam, polyfoam, and innerspring mattresses I'm aware of that would be well worth considering and posts #3 and #4 here also include some of the better quality and lower budget latex and latex hybrid options as well.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: Serta Icomfort vs Sealy Memoryworks 24 Jul 2014 14:10 #38

After reading and going through the posts you gave me I was interested in:

www.amazon.com/DreamFoam-Mattress-Ultimate-Dreams-10-Inch/dp/B009SQK2CI

I forgot to mention I do sleep hot. So that is why I considered this mattress with gel memory foam.
The product does not list if the bed is firm or medium firm. Do you know what level this mattress is?
The product lists 3" of 4lb gel memory foam. Is 4 lb density good for someone looking for a firm to med firm mattress.
Should I get a mattress with a higher density? Do you recommend anything lower than 5 lb density?

Thanks.

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Re: Serta Icomfort vs Sealy Memoryworks 24 Jul 2014 14:45 #39

Hi thatsdopefoo,

The product does not list if the bed is firm or medium firm. Do you know what level this mattress is?


I have no personal experience with the mattress so I don't know how firm it would feel for me and the perception of firmness and softness is also very relative to the person so it may feel firmer for some people than others depending on your body type, sleeping positions, and personal preferences and sensitivities. A conversation with the manufacturer will be a much better source of guidance about how the mattress may feel for you than anyone else (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).

The product lists 3" of 4lb gel memory foam. Is 4 lb density good for someone looking for a firm to med firm mattress.


The density of memory foam is the biggest factor in its durability but different memory foams that have the same density can have a wide range of firmness levels (see post #9 here ). Again it's always best to talk about your firmness choices and how well a mattress may match your specific needs and preferences in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) with a knowledgeable and experienced manufacturer who can talk you through your firmness choices and draw from the experiences and feedback of many of their customers that may be similar to you.

Should I get a mattress with a higher density? Do you recommend anything lower than 5 lb density?


The guidelines I would suggest using are in post #4 here . 4 lb memory foam and 1.5 lb base foam would be inside the guidelines that would certainly be suitable for a lower budget mattress and for people that are in a more "average" weight range. As you probably know, I think very highly of Dreamfoam and I believe they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, and service so the mattress you are looking at would certainly be well worth considering if you are confident that it's a good match for you in terms of PPP and you are limited to memory foam mattresses in this budget range.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: Serta Icomfort vs Sealy Memoryworks 04 Aug 2014 22:52 #40

Phoenix,

I decided to purchase the Dreamfoam mattress. Now I was wondering if you could provide me with some knowledge about foundations. I still need to purchase one and do not know where to start.

Thanks.

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Re: Serta Icomfort vs Sealy Memoryworks 04 Aug 2014 23:17 #41

Hi thatsdopefoo,

I decided to purchase the Dreamfoam mattress. Now I was wondering if you could provide me with some knowledge about foundations. I still need to purchase one and do not know where to start.


Congratulations on your new mattress ... I think you made a good quality and value choice :)

The simplest foundation options would be one of the choices that Dreamfoam offers which are the 14" Genius steel platform bedframe here (which is a combination bedframe and foundation) or their Simple Life foundation here along with a steel or wooden bedframe.

If you are also interested in looking at other alternatives then the foundation post here includes more information about foundations and bedframes and has many other options for foundations that would be also be suitable for your mattress.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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Last edit: by phoenix.
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