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Looking for advice in Idaho 29 Jan 2012 20:15 #1

  • Razoruk
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We are in the market for a new mattress. A long time ago I did a lot of research on the memory foam mattresses and decided that the leading name was vastly over priced. I ended up building my own queen size mattress with great luck, unfortunately I can't find my research and fortunately I stumbled upon this site.

Are there any reputable factory direct locations round the Boise, Idaho area? We spent all weekend looking at local retailers and unfortunately I was underwhelemed with the knowledge from the folks at furniture row.

my wife and I are primarily side sleepers and whilst we were happy with the previous mattress, my wife would ideally like something that doesn't retain the heat quite so much. This has led me down a path towards latex, and I think I have a lot of research left.

We have looked at the Spring air Milan Euro top and found that something along these lines had a nice firm bed, but with a nice softer top layer that took all the pressure points off my shoulder and hips. The salesmen kept telling me he'd have a sale starting feb that would bring its price down to around $2100 for the king sized. This sent alarm bells off having read a few of the articles on this site already!

We also looked at the tempurpedic range and both quite liked the grand bed, but would like that to feel a touch softer on top, and we're much less thrilled with its price tag.

I would say the $2100 is my top price point I'd want to pay, but I would much rather get some insight into what brands or factory direct places I should consider around here.

Anyway just looking for any recommendations you fine folk can offer.

Andrew

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Re: Looking for advice in Idaho 30 Jan 2012 01:53 #2

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Hi Razoruk,

A long time ago I did a lot of research on the memory foam mattresses and decided that the leading name was vastly over priced.


I share the sentiment about Tempurpedic. they are good quality but poor value IMO. While at one time there were few high quality memory foam options ... those days are now gone.

I took a look for a Spring Air Milan but nothing showed up. There was a Milano but the materials in it didn't seem to justify the prices you are quoting and it was much lower priced. Do you have a link?

Furniture Row (Denver Mattress) is a regional factory direct manufacturer with quite a few outlets. The mattresses they make use better quality materials in comparison to other larger brands and they have good value but like many multiple outlet manufacturers, the knowledge level of the staff varies considerable at different outlets. In particular they have 2 good value latex or "partly latex" mattresses (Snowmass and Aspen).

The Tempurpedic Grand Bed certainly uses high quality memory foam and may be a good construction for some ... at least for those who are "safe" with this much memory foam in their mattress (over 7") ... but I just couldn't imagine buying a mattress with this much memory foam in it no matter what the quality and I also couldn't imagine paying this much for any memory foam mattress either. The HD memory foam is very conforming and pressure relieving but because of its density it is slower reacting and with movement can feel much firmer than it really is (memory foam is like water in the sense that if you "slap" or press it quickly it feels firm but if you press it slowly it's much softer).

There are a few better choices in Boise including ...

www.leisuremattress.com/ Factory direct manufacturer. They use high quality materials including latex and Aerus memory foam (more highly breathable memory foam) combined with innersprings and would be well worth visiting.

denvermattress.furniturerow.com/dmc/ Regional factory direct manufacturer (as you mentioned). They make a range of mattresses with some good quality and value. I would avoid the major brands they also carry.

While the best value is likely in the factory directs just listed ... the following retail outlets may carry a few mattresses which have better than average value and make latex mattresses (as well as other types of materials) but you would need to compare individual models carefully for value and make sure you know the layers in any mattress you are looking at.

www.morfurniture.com/ Boise, ID. Retail outlet. They mostly carry mainstream brands but they also appear to carry Sherwood (also Lumina) mattresses which are an Arizona manufacturer who makes mattresses with better value than most. They don't give any details on their site about the Sherwood mattresses they carry so I would call first to make sure they have them on the floor.

www.luxurymattressoutlet.com/ Nampa, ID. Retail outlet. Carry Restonic and Therapedic both of whom are national brands that are made through licensees and make some mattresses with better value than the largest brands. They are made differently in different areas of the country and they both tend to use thicker layers of polyfoam above their better materials in some cases so knowing the layering is important if you choose to look at these.

idahofurniture.net/ Nampa, ID. Englander.

www.shopparmafurniture.com/bedroom---bedding.html Parma, ID. Diamond, Englander.

Boise, ID. Englander.
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Hope this helps

Phoenix
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Re: Looking for advice in Idaho 30 Jan 2012 10:08 #3

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Hi Pheonix,

Thanks for the help, I wouldn't have stumbled on half of those. Interestingly Sleep with Grace was where we actually started at with the Spring Air Milan Euro Top that I was quoted $2600 pre sales price to around $2100 with their sale starting later this week. Looking at the sheet it mentions Aviaro so maybe this is the line by Spring Air, I'll try and track down more later.

I do like that they have a 60 day in home "Grace period", where if you don't like it, there is a no restocking and no redelivery fee replacement option for an alternative they carry. Most of the places around here were looking at $100 restocking fee's and that could add up if you don't get the right mattress first time!

I also couldn't find information on line for the Milan Euro-top, but I do have a sheet provided by Sleep with Grace, that was out in the car when I originally posted. I tried to upload a snapshot of the spec sheet, but couldn't get that to work.

Here are the specs that are mentioned on this little fact sheet:

Fabric - Luscious teddy bear feel (Really that's a fact?, I will admit it did feel very nice to the touch though :lol: )
Quilt - Antimicrobial cashmere blend fibre with 3 " Tri-zone Conforma foam
Upholstery - 2 layers of 1 1/2" Nature's Rest Performance Latex
Upholstery - 3" Natures Rest Eco-Green Comfort Latex
Suport Core - 7" Soy Based Nature's Tech Core
Foundation - Zoned Eco-Wood Foundation

This one mattress in particular felt really good on relieving the pressure on my shoulder, without being so soft that if I chose to lie on my back it felt like there was plenty of support. I think it's at least a good starting base for me to start diving into other mattresses and having at least a close idea of what I am looking for in the mattress.


Thanks,

Andrew

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Re: Looking for advice in Idaho 30 Jan 2012 15:42 #4

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Hi Razoruk,

Thanks for posting the specs.

There is sometimes a dizzying array of different names used for different foams which can make it really difficult to "translate" what a spec sheet is really telling you.

It helps to know that there are really only 3 types of foam usually found in a mattress and these are latex, memory foam (visco-elastic), and polyfoam (polyurethane). While there is quite a variety in each of these ... all the "names" boil down to one of these three. Gel materials are a new emerging category but most (not all) of what you see here would fall into the memory foam category.

Some safe assumptions are that if a layer is latex ... it will say so. If a layer is memory foam ... it will also say so. If it isn't one of these two ... it will almost always be polyfoam.

In the case of the Spring Air, it has what they call "conforma" foam on the top of the mattress. This means that it is polyfoam and whenever you see polyfoam in the quilting or comfort layers of a mattress ... especially if it is more than 1" ... then it's very important to know what the density of the foam is because it will likely be the weak link in your mattress (the part that softens and degrades first and leads to the need to replace the mattress). If you don't know the density and it has more than an inch of polyfoam in the upper layers ... it's usually best to avoid it. Polyfoam ranges from "junk" (unfortunately this is in a lot of even very expensive mattresses to differing degrees) all the way up to very high quality materials (which are much rarer and usually only found in mattresses made by local manufacturers).

If you don't know or can't find out what it is ... assume it's low quality. It's much safer that way :)

So with 3" of unknown polyfoam in the top of the Spring Air (conforma foam) ... I would pass it by and not even consider it. There are just too many mattresses where you can find out the quality/density of the materials to spend much time on those that are uncertain or unknown.

The sad part is that most places would call this a "latex" mattress when you in fact would be sleeping on polyfoam. When the polyfoam starts to form impressions or softens too much ... most people would believe that it was the latex that was the problem. In the same way ... because most innerspring mattresses have soft low density polyfoam over the innersprings ... when they start to form impressions or soften to a point that they need replacing ... many consumers then believe that "innersprings are no good" when in fact it was once again the polyfoam which caused the problem.

The conforma foam can be quite comfortable because it is soft and "conforming" (it's convoluted or "egg crate" which is softer and zoned to make it softer under pressure points). The latex underneath it would also add to the softness but is also more supportive than polyfoam. What this is really saying is that your comfort layers needs to be thick and soft enough for your shoulders to sink in but that for your other sleeping positions that there needs to be good support as well.

All of this is why it's so important to know every layer of a mattress that you purchase because it's the only way that you can identify what the weak link of a mattress might be so that your pressure relief needs and your support needs can be accomplished without the weak link that so often leads to early replacement of a mattress.

Phoenix
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Re: Looking for advice in Idaho 30 Jan 2012 18:03 #5

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Thank you for the help in unravelling what is in that mattress!

The help you offer on this site is incredible, and whilst I am still learning, I already feel far more informed than most consumers are in the purchase of a mattress.

It's incredible that you can possibly spend $2100 or so on a mattress and it have potentially sub-par components in the most critical area of the mattress. I'm not saying that is the case, just that you are right, you can find information about many other beds, it's not worth the time to try and track down it's components unless we just can't find one with our same perceived level of comfort ( which I doubt will be the case!)

I also have a personal reference for the hack-sack-leisure.com place that you mentioned. One of my colleagues at work purchases all of his beds from there and has nothing but good to say about them, so I will be stopping by there some time this week to talk with the owner.

We are hoping that he has some no spring latex based mattress, or can custom make one for us, with similar perceived comfort to the spring air without the mystery foam!

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Re: Looking for advice in Idaho 31 Jan 2012 10:08 #6

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Next up for us was the Spring Air Back Supporter Latex.

They had 3 models on display / sale at costco. One of which we didn't like right away.

That left us with the following 2 models :

Exhilaration: $1,700 King Size

Fabric: Organic Cotton with Silverness
Upholstery: 1" Temperature-regulating Latex
Upholstery: 2" Medium Firm Latex
Support Core: 8" HD Plant-based Polyurethane
Foundation: 9" Eco-Wood

Slumber: $2,100 King size

Fabric: Organic Cotton with Silverness
Upholstery: 1" Temperature-regulating Latex
Upholstery: 1" Plush Latex
Upholstery: 2" Medium Firm Latex
Support Core: 8.5" HD Plant-based Polyurethane
Foundation: 9" Eco-Wood


This is where it got a little tricky for me, I liked the Slumber as it felt that my shoulder was allowed to sink deeper into the mattress relieving the pressure points. My wife on the other hand preferred the marginally firmer Exhilaration model.

I guess this is where our statistics start to come into play. I am 5'10" around 215 lbs with weight distributed pretty evenly and she is 6'0", curvier around the hips and weighs more than I do(no exact figures here) but carries most of her weight around that hip to lower back area.

So I think I am starting to see a pattern with preferences around mattress and I like a slightly softer sink in type of feeling and she prefers it a little firmer, but she probably also sinks in at that level based upon weight differences.

As for the mattresses above, I think they are probably share similarity with the first one we liked the feel of initially at similar price points, but the support core could probably be better for the price they are asking, but at least there wasn't the Poly Foam in the comfort layers.

Am I getting on the right track here?

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Re: Looking for advice in Idaho 31 Jan 2012 15:00 #7

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Hi Razoruk,

I think you're definitely on the right track. The only thing I would caution is to make sure that both of these mattresses have no "hidden" polyfoam over the latex (sometimes they forget to list it but it doesn't look like this is the case here). You can find this out either with a spec sheet or adding up the thickness of the layers in the description to make sure they add up to the thickness of the mattress with a small allowance for the thickness of the ticking/quilting.

Men generally carry more weight in their upper bodies and have wider shoulders than women which need to sink in more if they sleep on their side (even though they are still lighter than the pelvis). Women on the other hand tend to have wider hips and carry more weight in their lower body so the issue is often "stopping" the hips/pelvis from sinking in too far.

The thicker upper layers of the Slumber (an extra inch of "plush" latex) are likely helping your shoulders more while the thinner layers on top of the Exhilaration are closer to the support layers which help your wife more. This is also one of those places where an innerspring or latex in the core may be more accommodating for the differences between you (they are more adaptable to different weights and shapes).

Many manufacturers will offer a "side to side" split layering to take into account the different weights and profiles of a couple. Zoning ... especially where the support layers under the hips/pelvis is firmer ... can also help as it can create a better balance between the "sinking in" needs of the shoulders and the "support" needs of the hips. With slightly softer support under the shoulder area your shoulders can sink in more while the firmer support under the hips can help with pelvic/lumbar support for your wife. Most types of support layers have zoned options but there are differences between the effectiveness of different types of zoning. More than 3 zones can be a little tricky and actually less effective in many cases.

I'm looking forward to any feedback from the two factory direct outlets in Boise but you are heading in the right direction IMO.

Phoenix
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Re: Looking for advice in Idaho 31 Jan 2012 22:39 #8

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Hi Pheonix,

Thanks for the encouragement, and the amazing help you have already provided!

We took a trip to luxury Mattress Outlet on the way home today - These guys are no longer on the Cole Road location in Boise, and appear to be out of business in Boise at least. We are going to venture out to Nampa at the weekend to see if the nampa location is still around, also I see you edited your post to remove Bountiful Rest Mattress CO, we were going to head out to Nampa and take a look at them as well and kill 2 birds with one Stone. Are they confirmed to be no longer around or you no longer think they are worth the trip assuming they are still there?

The one I am however most looking forward to going to see is Leisure industries (hacksack-leisure.com) with the reviews from a personal friend and the fact his whole family don't even look around anymore, they just go straight there for mattresses. That's a pretty good initial testimonial for me!:)

I'm not thrilled to go back to Furniture row, as with my knowledge I now have gained in a very short period of time, I can see what the sales rep was trying to do on my first visit. I will however go and take a look at the two mattresses Snowmass & Aspen, but I think we are heading towards a completely Latex mattress based upon our personal needs and our perceived dislike for springs in the mattress ( I do realize it is probably the poor quality foam or poor quality springs that led to this perception, but it is hard to change my wife's mind:lol: )

I've been looking at some of the configurations on sleepez.com as well and am trying to work out the benefits (to me and my wife specifically) of the 13,000 over the 10,000. I do like that we can tailor each side of the bed to our specific needs, and am not afraid to make an online purchase after I have done the necessary research, and ruled out any local manufacturers and stores. Just wondering if the 13,000 is overkill or necessary in my case.

I already feel that I am limited locally to either hack-sack or Denver mattress (although there may be some options at sleepwithgrace too), based on my current experiences and material in each of the beds we've liked so far. The search has however been beneficial for me to realize that there is not a one size fits all, and I need my wife to take a far more active role in her needs than she likes to! :lol: She has so far all been about compromising to my needs for the softer side, and that need not be the case as we can tailor each side of the bed:)

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Re: Looking for advice in Idaho 31 Jan 2012 23:41 #9

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Hi Razoruk,

I see you edited your post to remove Bountiful Rest Mattress CO, we were going to head out to Nampa and take a look at them as well and kill 2 birds with one Stone. Are they confirmed to be no longer around or you no longer think they are worth the trip assuming they are still there?


I called bountiful Rest in Salt Lake City (who I've talked with before and have impressed me) and I confirmed that this was one of their outlets that was closed down because of business conditions and the economy.

I'd also love to hear about your experience and feedback about hacksack-leisure. They certainly fit the profile of the type of manufacturer that I like.

The snowmass is a "mostly latex" mattress except for the 1" of quilting foam on top which is usually the maximum that I consider to be OK and 2" in the base which is not really an issue. The foam they use in the quilting though is 1.8 lb density which is higher quality and firmer than you will usually see in more "commercial" mattresses. The 2" of Talalay on top is 24 ILD and the 6" of talalay under it is 32 ILD for reference. It may be a little on the soft side for the two of you but your experience will tell you this more accurately. the Aspen has more poly underneath less latex (the latex ILD's are the same) and the polyfoam on top is softer.

The benefit of the 13000 is primarily for people who are larger or greater weight. Shawn can give you more feedback about the specifics but I think the rough guideline would be in the range of mid 200's in weight. A thicker mattress allows the use of firmer foams which can compress to a lower percentage of their overall thickness and so can act softer when necessary but also is thick and firm enough to avoid the feeling of bottoming out (getting too firm too quickly) with heavier weights and deeper compression. The extra material provides more cushioning and gradual compression and greater adaptability with larger weights or sizes. The weight cutoff is only a guideline as some may prefer the extra flexibility available of more layers or the feel of a thicker mattress with lower weights as well but the main advantage is to accommodate greater weight and size.

I'm glad your wife is taking a bigger role ... mattress shopping is a lot more fun that way especially when both of you can get just what you need and want :)

Phoenix
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Re: Looking for advice in Idaho 02 Feb 2012 12:30 #10

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Hi Phoenix,

boisemattress.com/
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I think we are going to go take a look at these today. There is a groupon coupon today that alerted me to them. Any brands there that you are aware of that I should pay attention to in terms of value?

After a quick scan of their mattresses I am not sure it is worth my time to visit as I think we are sold on latex at this point and do not want springs or memory foam ( except as potentially a short term throw away topper)

I've also been emailing back and forth with Jeremy at sleepez and he has recommended the 10,000 with a configuration of medium over firm over extra firm for both my wife and I.

Until I just saw that groupon we had it narrowed down to leisure industries, who we are going to go visit tomorrow and sleepez.

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