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Re: Sealy Embody Introspection 05 Sep 2011 23:57 #16

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Hi Phoenix,

Another quick update. Three more nights with zero back pain! That of course makes me extremely happy.

A few things we did to the bed on Friday:

- We elevated the head of the bed 2", which I do like for a number of reasons, but is certainly a personal preference.

- More importantly, we reinforced the support under the bed. King bed, 4 legs at each corner. There were four wood cross supports (going side to side) each with one leg in the middle. When my husband laid in it, I could see it bow a little bit under the core of his body. So, we added two more legs to each cross support. So now there are four wood cross supports going side to side, each with three legs. So, there is now a total of 12 legs supporting the mattress & box springs, plus the four legs on the bed at each corner.

This did firm up the feel of the bed a little bit, but I prefer that!

So, three mornings in a row since these adjustments, zero back pain! Also, I have been comfortable enough in this mattress that I have been sleeping on my side and back more, and less on my stomach, which is probably better in the long run.

I just hope this mattress holds up well!!! If the 5lb memory foam holds up, is there much risk of the poly core sagging underneath in the near term (like in the next few years)? Honestly, I'd be thrilled to get 5 years out of a mattress these days without sagging!!!

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Re: Sealy Embody Introspection 05 Sep 2011 23:58 #17

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And I certainly appreciate all of your time, help, and insight!!!!! :)

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Re: Sealy Embody Introspection 07 Sep 2011 00:17 #18

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Hi again Sleepless, and thanks for another update.

Polyfoam used in a support core is not nearly as likely to develop impressions as it would be in a comfort layer. This is because the support core poly is (or at least should be) HD quality polyfoam of at least 1.8 density and above and is also firmer than the lower density and softer poly so often used in mattress comfort layers. While it is not as durable or supportive as latex of course in a mattress core ... it is certainly not as big an issue when used in the support (deeper) layers as it is in the comfort (upper) layers.

It's also important to make sure that the mattress is properly supported which as you've outlined you have done.

Thanks again

Phoenix
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Re: Sealy Embody Introspection 20 Sep 2011 03:09 #19

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Hi again Phoenix,

Well- so far still so good on the Introspection. I am noticing that it's softening up just a little, but not bad. No smell, normally doesnt sleep warm, and most importantly, still no back pain!

I have high hopes for this mattress, but remain slighly nervous about the long term durability/body impressions based on previous experiences and reading too many massage boards about bad experiences ;)

I wondered if you actually much about the Sealy memory foam that came before the Embody?

Was is the same quality- or better/worse? Why did they discontinue them- say the Trueform models, etc? On Viewpoints.com, they seem to have good reviews. But, there much be some reason why they discontinued the other Sealy memory foam lines and started into the Embody line. Just long term durability wise, wondering if Sealy has a reputation on their other memory foam mattresses - positive or negative for quality?

Thanks!!

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Re: Sealy Embody Introspection 20 Sep 2011 17:17 #20

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Hi Sleepless,

I'm glad to hear that things are still going well for you.

Memory foams in general will soften much more in the first few weeks of use than later on when the softening "curve" is more gradual so after about 90 days or so the "initial" softening will be over and then the more gradual process will continue. If you are still in good shape by this time ... then things will be looking even better :)

I believe that any changes in memory foams used by the major manufacturers (in the case of Sealy supplied by Carpenter) are being driven by several factors ... not all of which have anything to do with the durability of the foam itself but more to do with market share, branding, marketing, and perception.

All of these are a combination of financial pressures and consumer perceptions and trends in combination with the need for each of the majors to differentiate themselves from the others in spite of the fact that they all use similar materials and methods. There are very few "secrets" in the industry that stay secret for long. The differentiation is based on what their marketing research believes will sell and the story they can create to improve consumer perception of their brand. Many of the changes from one model to the next or one year to the next have less to to with using better materials and more with using materials that can be attached to a different story.

Most of the real changes are incremental. The customers of the foam suppliers (and other suppliers) are the mattress manufacturers. The value they provide is in their ability to improve the profit of the manufacturers. They provide materials and "stories" that are the basis of value as defined by manufacturers. The customers of the major manufacturers are the stores that sell their brand. The value they provide is based on their ability to improve the profit of the stores that sell them. They pass on and refine the stories that are attached to the materials in the products they sell and turn them into "mattress stories" that are "unique" to their mattresses and brand. The customers of the outlets that sell mattresses are the consumers. This is the step where stories are "amped up" to compete with actual quality and value and are used to sell products to consumers. Most of the manufacturers that sell to stores will also spend a great deal of time teaching the stores which stories should be used to sell their mattress and how to avoid and discourage meaningful comparisons based on the material or construction itself.

When there are more steps between the manufacturers of the "raw materials" and the consumer ... stories and perception has to replace real value (from a consumer perspective) as there are more layers of "customers" along the chain that need to make a profit. Mattresses are one of several "methods" to sell foam for example from the perspective of a foam manufacturer. This is the basic reason that minor incremental changes are marketed as being "revolutionary" advances by major companies which need the perception of value to sell mattresses more than they need actual consumer value based on quality, performance, and durability. If they competed on actual value ... they would lose all their market share to smaller manufacturers who have a shorter supply line with less "customers" along the journey towards the final consumer.

The major trends in memory foams are also related to a gradually growing perception of the weaknesses of memory foams in general which includes issues of of durability, supportive qualities, and thermal properties. They also include the growing awareness that other materials can be just as pressure relieving as memory foam so the "feel" and "name" of memory foam needs to be connected to a "perception" of pressure relief rather than pressure relief itself. As other segments of the market that manufacture materials that don't have these weaknesses increase market share, then the producers of other materials will make changes in their stories that are designed to create the consumer belief that what they produce is "just as good" or "better than" the materials they are competing with. While these stories are often based on incremental changes, some of which are small improvements in quality and some of which are primarily improvements in profit margins regardless of quality, they are completely exaggerated through marketing stories in order to make up for the length of their supply chain and improve brand perception. The "competitors" of memory foam comfort layers include latex, polyfoam (to a lesser degree), natural fibers, microcoils, buckling column gels, and to a lesser degree water. Memory foam needs a competitive story to "compete" with each of these materials just like each of these materials needs a story to "compete" with each other an memory foam. The stories are designed to cater to and create perception and discourage meaningful comparisons much more than fact.

So the "cool memory foam" stories and the "natural memory foam" stories and the "supportive memory foam" stories and the "durable memory foam" stories are being introduced by using various production and manufacturing methods to help memory foam compete with other materials that are and will continue to be inherently cooler, more natural, more supportive, and more durable.

Some of the incremental changes that are behind these "new" stories are primarily meant to sell to customers along the supply chain in the belief (and fact) that consumers at the end of the chain will continue to believe and buy stories instead of real value. Branding stories work much better in an atmosphere of confusion and conflicting claims than they do in a market of education, knowledge, and fact. They are mostly "perception" based rather than real changes that produce higher quality or higher value materials.

The incremental changes that are "behind" the stories include ...

Using lower density foams on the top of a mattress which are by nature more breathable and have a faster response which can translate into a "softer feeling" in certain circumstances ... even though they are less durable.

Another is to use various "gel" formulations which in theory helps memory foam to sleep cooler because of the thermal conduction qualities of the gel (just like rocks or kitchen counters feel cool to the touch because they draw heat from the body). Because they are also very dense, they create the story of denser "more supportive" memory foam even though the base foam used can be less dense (lower quality) to get to the same density of the final product. The theory (and story) sounds great ... the actual real life results seem to be mixed at best. These have been used for several years by many manufacturers although the awareness of them has increased because of Serta's marketing efforts with the iComfort.

Various fabrication methods are being used including holes in the foam itself, various combinations of "air channels" under or in the foam, and various types of foam "inserts" are being used both to build a "cooler" story and a "more supportive" story. Again ... most of these are dubious or small incremental changes at best meant to create competitive stories rather than competitive quality and consumer value.

Different foam combinations or "mixtures" of several foams are being introduced into memory foam (and other foams) in order to "move" the perceived qualities of the foam towards other competing materials. These combinations can add certain qualities to memory foam but there is always a tradeoff for this "benefit" which is not part of the marketing story.

Various temperature regulating tickings are also being developed and used which can make a difference to foams or construction methods which tend to sleep hot. Even various quiltings such as wool are being used in spite of (or because of) the fact that they can change the thermal and performance properties of the memory foam.

Different foam formulations are being developed and used to allow for the creation of more "open celled" memory foam that allows for greater air circulation or faster response. The difficulty here is that the actual "memory" of memory foam depends in part on restricted air flow within the material. These formulations are more breathable but they also speed up the foam recovery and make it less "memory foam like" which now has to have a story that competes with other materials that respond more quickly to changes in position.

Alternative polyols are also being introduced in a weak but seemingly successful attempt to portray memory foams (and polyfoams) as being "natural" or "green" when in fact they only replace a small part of the petrochemicals used in regular polyfoam. Polyfoam and memory foam will never be truly "green" or "natural" no matter what the source of the chemicals that are used in their manufacture.

Various different foam "combinations" are being used as well either through fabricated layering or through actual pouring mixtures used in foam manufacturing to change its qualities and make memory foam a little more resilient or less "dead" feeling. In effect they are trying to make memory foam more like other foams while retaining (or gaining) the market share of memory foam itself.

All of these are efforts to compete for the perceptions of consumers and to reduce the cost of materials in most cases more than they are about actual improvements in performance.

So the simple answer to your question is that the current models by Sealy and other major manufacturers certainly have much different stories than "previous versions". Some of these stories are exaggerations of incremental improvements in materials. Some of them represent lower cost, quality, or durability with a "benefit" story attached to them. Some of them represent efforts to "redefine" competitors successes with new stories about old materials or methods to gain market share. Most of them however are based on the primary need to maintain branding differentiation and market share based on brand perception rather than factual information about the materials and manufacturing methods used.

Independent manufacturers with "less mouths to feed" tend to focus more on materials, quality, construction, and final value to consumers. Larger manufacturers tend to focus more on what stories can offset the disadvantages of their supply chain and the perceived advantages of their competitors at the expense of real information about the quality and performance of the materials and methods they use. There is "just enough" truth in them to protect or increase market share ... at the cost of "the rest of the story".

Phoenix
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Re: Sealy Embody Introspection 21 Sep 2011 02:14 #21

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Thanks Phoenix!!!

So for the sake of discussion & due diligence- is there another mattress you could recommend that would feel similar to the Introspection, but for a lesser price from a more independent company?

I'd be curious to look into that.

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Re: Sealy Embody Introspection 21 Sep 2011 17:16 #22

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Hi sleepless,

What I normally recommend is a process that leads to a high value choice rather than a specific mattress.

In your case ... based on your experiences and stats ... it's pretty clear that 3" is about the thickest comfort layer that would work for you. Thicker than that and you are outside the range of both your preferences (a little firmer) and your sleeping positions (all over the map). This seems to be confirmed with the introspection which has 2.5" of higher density memory foam with .5" of lower density foam over it and then a stretchable ticking. This "in effect" would be closer to a 2.5" comfort layer as the memory foam on top would allow even lighter body parts to sink in. It would in effect deepen the entire pressure relieving cradle rather than contribute to a specific part sinking in more than another.

There would be various ways to get to this type of construction. These would all suit your pressure relief/alignment needs but may have a slightly different "feel" (the subjective factors).

The first part of the process would be to visit a local manufacturer if there were any in your area where you could actually test different layering combinations that roughly duplicated what you have. Some of these offer standard models and the choices would be between models just like in a store. Some of these would actually be able to "cutom build" a mattress that fine tuned the closest "standard model" they had to make it perfect. They would do this by adjusting the layer thicknesses, ILDs, or the types or density of the materials used. Most these would be able to supply or build a mattress using either the same or higher quality materials than a major brand at a lower cost.

If the local manufacturer didn't offer the types of materials that you were looking for or didn't have a model that was perfect for you (or could custom build one that was a variation of a standard model) then the local testing you did would become the "blueprint" for an online purchase ... preferably with adjustable layers so that you could fine tune your mattress once you slept on it and exchange layers if necessary.

In this case ... you also have several options ...

For example ... if you were to go here and order a model 10000 with 3" of 5.5 lb memory foam on top instead of latex ... you would end up with 3" of slightly denser memory foam with 6" of latex underneath it. The latex layers could be adjusted to either soften or firm up the feel and support of the mattress. This particular model would also have a wool quilted cover which would reduce slightly the "effective thickness" of the comfort layer (the wool would cool down the memory foam and you wouldn't sink in quite as far), it would also sleep cooler than sleeping right on the memory foam itself and would create a firmer feel. The cost of this mattress ... which would be in every way superior to what you have now ... better support options ... higher density memory foam ... a wool quilted cover for cooling ... and much higher quality foam underneath the memory foam ... would cost you $1650 in a queen which is less than the Introspection. They also have a model more similar to the introspection which uses 3" of the same 5.5 lb memory foam over HR polyfoam (similar to or perhaps better than the introspection) which with an optional wool quilted cover (to slightly reduce the effective thickness of your comfort layer and add cooling) would be $970. This would be the equivalent quality to what you have (perhaps slightly higher).

In this threadhttps://www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-forum/general-mattresses/385-memory-foam-mattress-help.html#431 you will find manufacturers I have talked with and who offer Certi-Pur memory foams and varying degrees of ability to customize a memory foam mattress (either through model choices or through different support core layering and materials options), are transparent about their materials and mattresses, and are knowledgeable about what may be suitable. I include these as "value" reference points. I will add to this list as my research and conversations warrant it for those who don't have access to a local manufacturer who offers memory foam in the "version" they are looking for (which because of the ability to do actual "lay on bed" testing would always be my first choice for buying memory foam when possible).

Phoenix
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Re: Sealy Embody Introspection 01 Nov 2011 13:22 #23

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Oh boy.

So- we're now a little over two months in on the Introspection and the back pain is setting in :(

It's definitely been softening and I can't quite put my finger on it, but obviously I'm having some problems with spinal alignment and it's bothering me even on my back.

I tried not to say anything at first since I've become an insane Princess and the Pea over here. But finally this morning I told my husband that I've been waking up with back pain the past several days and he said he was too. So, it's not just me.

What a bummer. It's so tough b/c a REALLY firm mattress isn't soft enough to fall asleep on b/c I can't get comfy. But a medium one seems to soften up too much and then equals back pain. This has been the case with every mattress I have had in the past few years. They all start out great. And then fairly quickly either soften or sag.

No idea what I'm going to do yet. Don't want to jump the gun here, but it took everything I had to stay in bed past about 4am last night. So, we'll see how this goes. I'm beginning to see another stint in the guest room for me soon. :S

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Re: Sealy Embody Introspection 01 Nov 2011 21:13 #24

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Hi Sleepless,

That's not good news :(

What a bummer. It's so tough b/c a REALLY firm mattress isn't soft enough to fall asleep on b/c I can't get comfy. But a medium one seems to soften up too much and then equals back pain. This has been the case with every mattress I have had in the past few years. They all start out great. And then fairly quickly either soften or sag.


I think that's one of the biggest arguments for latex as it tends to soften less and keep more of its original properties. It would also be a good argument for the use of some of the higher density polyfoams that are available but so rarely used in a comfort layer. My guess is that your softening is a combination of the softening of the top 1/2" of low quality memory foam ... slightly less softening of the higher quality memory foam ... and perhaps some softening of the top of the polyfoam support layer.

The real trick is to go soft and thick enough on top to relieve pressure using a material which either won't soften or a material where you want it to soften because its a little too firm. A firm support core is where most of the feeling of a "firm" mattress comes from and there are several good options here including latex, an innerspring, or high quality polyfoam. With this type of a combination you can actually have a mattress that is both pressure relieving and "soft" on top and supportive and "firm" underneath ... and will stay that way.

Where in your back are you feeling the pain ... lower, middle, upper?

Phoenix
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Re: Sealy Embody Introspection 01 Nov 2011 22:09 #25

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Thanks Phoenix!

Historically, I've had middle back pain with previous mattresses. But, the past few days with this one have been more like middle to upper. Still below my shoulders, but roughly from middle to just below shoulder area. Any thoughts??

On paper, I do LOVE latex. And my parents have and LOVE latex. But, for some reason, I just could not acclimate to it when it was in my house. It's something I'm not opposed to revisiting. I just could never get comfy on the SleepEZ we had and my back was still sore and almost fatigued from the 'push back' if that makes any sense?

I do want to do a bit more research on the Tempurpedic Bellafina and others of similar composition.

My only fear with innerspring is that I've had bad experiences with all of the 'new' non-flip models I've had. I've had no trouble with our old school flippable firm Beautyrest and even our old school firm flippable Spring Air back supporter.

Open to advice here for sure!!!

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Re: Sealy Embody Introspection 02 Nov 2011 02:33 #26

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Hi SleeplessinDallas,

There are 3 natural "C" curves in the spine (actually 4 if you count the tailbone but we'll ignore that one here). The Lumbar is on the bottom, the Thoracic is upper back, and the Cervical is the neck. If the pain is coming from alignment issues (as opposed to pressure issues which is unlikely with 3" of memory foam), then lower back pain is usually due to the hips being out of alignment, upper back pain is usually due to cervical issues, and mid back pain is usually due to "compensating" for one or the other. In your case ... since your comfort layer is fairly thin (for memory foam) and your hips are likely still being supported by the foam underneath it, I am suspecting that the back pain is coming from the upper two "C" curves. This would be similar to the type of pain often experienced by someone who sat at a computer in a slouched or hunched position for long periods with the head and shoulders too far forward. This can often be a pillow issue if the pillow is too thick and the head is being held up too far forward (on the back) or backward and twisted (on the stomach). If the memory foam has softened a bit and the upper back is sinking in a bit deeper but the pillow is still holding up the head in the same position, this could be worsened.

The other possibility is that you are spending more time on your stomach and hyperextending your lumbar and the area above that is compensating with muscle tension. It could be a combination of both of course.

The first thing I would try though is a thinner pillow ... especially if you are spending more time on your stomach. A thinner pillow that can be scrunched up as needed when on your side (when it needs to be thicker) may be worth trying (if you haven't already experimented with this). I think that sometimes the importance of supporting the upper "C" curve and the head in an aligned position can sometimes be overlooked and can be just as important as supporting the hips/pelvis and the lumbar spine.

Of course if there is too much resilience and too little energy absorbed ... then the feel from this would also be uncomfortable for some (what someone called like sleeping on a balloon). This is often the reason why some people don't like some latex pillows ... particularly if they are too thick or too firm ... because they can make movement too easy and for them it can feel "jiggly" or unstable.

When the body weight is in equilibrium (you are lying still), there is really no such thing as "pushback" (see my earlier post about carved wood), there is only how much pressure each part of your body is experiencing. Pushback (or resilience) is really how much of the compression force is stored and returned to you when you move. It's opposite is called hysteresis (energy absorbtion). These two things determine how easy it is to move on a mattress. I suspect that what you were experiencing as "pushback" was an effect of an ILD which was causing pressure issues. Sometimes if a body shape carries more weight in the hip area ... then certain layering, materials, or zoning in the center third of a mattress to support the hips will allow the use of softer latex to relieve pressure in other areas of the body and the "pushback" would probably be gone.

I think that the newer innersprings are not as big a problem as the quality of the foam layers that are above them. I think that most innersprings made today of good quality will last a long time and while I would still prefer that there were more two sided mattresses ... particularly when foam or fibers that are more easily compressed are used ... it would be rare that an innerspring is the weak link in a mattress. Having an innerspring is more about the "feel" than about durability in most cases ... if the materials above it are high quality and durable.

Phoenix
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Re: Sealy Embody Introspection 03 Nov 2011 11:28 #27

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Hi Phoenix,

You nailed it.

1.) I sit at a computer all day every day. I try to keep good posture, but I am sure I wind up hunched over unnecessarily and that's a contributing factor. But, the last two months with the Introspection were great even with this.
2.) I am sure that I overcompensate in bed once my back starts to get a little sore, thus making it worse.

Last night, I rotated our Introspection- head to foot and my back was fine. Which tells me that it is indeed the mattress softening where the core of our bodies lie at night. So, while this is a temporary fix, I imagine it's only a matter of another 8 weeks b/c this direction will do the same thing. :( But- it does buy me a little time out of the guest room!

Have been looking around again online at a few things and will post those next b/c I'd love your input!

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Re: Sealy Embody Introspection 03 Nov 2011 12:06 #28

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Hi again Phoenix!

Ok- below are a few mattresses I've been just initially looking at online in the last day or so. Of course, at this point, return policy is VERY important to me. And I'm slightly hesitant to buy a bed online that I havent been able to try in person. But, it's not off the table. I'd rather not revisit the SleepEZ set up b/c while I liked their people a lot, the bed just did not work for us and is a huge hassle to ship back!

While it seems that I do need some very good support, and an overall pretty firm mattress, I do like a little bit of nice cushion on the top. But, need something that's not going to soften and sag right away on me.

Here are a few I wanted to run past you for starters.....

1.) Tempurpedic Bellafina
www.tempurpedic.com/TEMPUR-Contour-Collection/Tempur-Pedic-BellaFina-Bed.asp

We've walked through this one a little bit already.
It's 2.8" of 5lb memory foam, 3" latex, 4.3" poly core.
$3,400 for a king set. That's hefty, but wondering if Tempurpedic would indeed last longer/be more durable/less saggy?
Could purchase from Mattress Firm with one year return in case it didn't hold it's shape


2.) Sleep Science Hybrid Bliss www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11677713&search=king+mattress&Mo=12&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-US&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Sp=S&N=5000043 4018918 4294899766&whse=BC&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=5000127+4000000&D=king+mattress&Ntt=king+mattress&No=6&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1

Saw this one last night & it's interesting b/c it's similar build order to the Bellafina, but less $ and from Costco
It's 2" of 5lb memory foam (maybe a little less might actually be better?), 2" medium latex, 7" core
$1,149 for the king mattress- would buy boxes elsewhere- seems like a pretty fair price
Returnable forever from Costco online


3.) Sovn- Spruce 8" latex model
sovn.com/latex-mattresses/models

This is the one I was trying to duplicate with SleepEZ, but just never worked.
It's 6" core of 29ILD medium dunlop core & 2" of 25ILD soft talalay. In store, I love it, but obviously all night is different
This store sells Berkeley Ergonomics beds- they seem like very high quality, but they are not returnable- only 60day comfort swap of layers. Of course, I do like the idea of 100% pure latex for the durability.
$3,400 for king set. Similar to the Bellafina pricing, which is steep. Probably worth it, but a lot to spend on something that cannot be returned if we were not comfortable on it?

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Re: Sealy Embody Introspection 03 Nov 2011 18:26 #29

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Hi Sleepless,

A few comments on your options ...

Bellafina

This would likely start off firmer but after the initial break in period would likely be better for your circumstances than what you have. It has slightly less memory foam ... the memory foam it does have is firmer ... and the latex underneath won't soften to the same degree as polyfoam and would likely be a better "transition" layer. The only uncertainty here would be the type of latex used (I suspect it is equivalent to blended Dunlop) however it would not soften to the same degree as polyfoam and would likely have a better combination of pressure relief and support than polyfoam. If this tested out as being slightly firmer than you were comfortable with then it would likely break in to being good.

Sleep Science Hybrid Bliss

On paper this also looks like a very good choice and with Costco's return policy may well be worth a try. The only negative here is that Sleep Science is not very helpful or forthcoming about their Chinese memory foam in terms of whether it has been tested for offgassing or durability. I want to like them but they made it really hard. When I talked to them they were downright snarly when I asked my questions and I was told ..."they use the same chemicals as everyone else and it's been tested" but this type of an answer means nothing. He (someone in production) ended up making it clear he was really annoyed with my questions and that he had no intention of answering them. Still it may be worth a try to see how it "fits".

Sovn- Spruce 8" latex model

One of the difficulties of "duplicating" a certain layering especially with a 2" top layer is that the ILD of the layer underneath becomes very important. With Dunlop as well ... the ILD is never as "exact" as with talalay and even talalay is an "average" ILD and there are variances in layers that are rated as the same ILD. The Sovn also has a 6" core while SleepEz has 2 three inch cores which can also make a difference. As you know ... finer adjustments can make a real difference over the course of long term sleeping particularly with different layerings and sometimes what someone is feeling is difficult to "connect" to a specific layer of the mattress.

Do you remember the specific layerings you tried with the SleepEz special as this may also give valuable information as to your "ideal" layering.

There are several excellent independent mattress manufacturers in Dallas (3 in particular) who can build a mattress with the exact layering you may need. Their cost would also be significantly lower than the Sovn and this may also be a great option for you. The Sovn microcoils may also be well worth a try.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: Sealy Embody Introspection 03 Nov 2011 19:01 #30

  • SleeplessinDallas
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Thanks again as always Phoenix! Excellent food for thought here. I am going to dig a little deeper on these and think them over the next few days.

I am certainly open to independent groups here in Dallas. My only hesitation is that given my recent history and the fact that I've apparently become the princess and the pea, many of the smaller local shops don't offer much in the way of returns/refunds (including Sovn).

The Sovn bed I love is apparently 6" of 29 ILD dunlop and 2" of 25 ILD talalay on my side & 2" of 29ILD talalay on my husbands side. Based on that, Shawn at Sleep EZ recommended that we actually go firm dunlop, medium dunlop, medium talaley (bottom to top). That was just too firm. I asked him to send me a 2" soft talalay layer instead for the top, but he said 2" wouldn't change the feel too much, so he recommended 3" of soft dunlop. And then the trouble continued. We kept the firm on the bottom, then tried different layers of the 3" med dunlop, 3" soft dunlop, and 2" med talalay. None of them worked. Then, I just got exhausted with the whole thing and with shipping back and forth- the repacking of those layers is quite an undertaking!

I do still have hope for latex, but am hesitant to buy it online anymore. I love the one at Sovn, but am not certain how I feel about the no return policy- exchange layers for 60 days is their policy. I think I do have confidence in their quality and abiliity to hold shape over time since it's 100% latex. But, if you couldnt find the right comfort for you. Hum. Sovn also has beds with springs as the base and latex over.

I like the idea of the Bellafina as well. But for about 1/2 the price, I've certainly considered the Sleep Science hybrid from Costco- nothing to lose really, except some additional hassle if it doesnt work.

Wondering if the Bellafina or SS hybrid might hold it's shape better with only 2" of memory foam instead of 3" and with latex underneath it before the poly? Then, just curious if the quality would be drastically different b/t them. I do like the feel of some memory foam when it's firmer, just not when it's so mushy.

The Introspection literally feels like it's very easily squishing down definitely more than 3" when I put my hand in it now.

Ok- time to think!!!

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