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Re: Sealy Embody Introspection 03 Nov 2011 22:41 #31

  • phoenix
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Hi Sleepless,

As you probably know ... I am one of those that believes that layer thickness can create changes just as much as layer ILD and part of the difficulty in "mattress design" is how the layers work together.

For example ... the Sovn is a single core layer of Dunlop of a certain ILD which would work differently from a 3" medium of the same ILD over a firm bottom. The Dunlop may also come from a different source which means it may come in a different ILD range. Finally the cover may be different or one may be zoned and one not. While all of these individually may not make a huge difference ... together they can change the feel significantly. I also believe that the change of material type along with the layer thickness in combination with the layer below it can make a noticeable difference. I am one of those where small cumulative changes can definitely be noticed and much of my own mattress testing experiences were "designed" to isolate exactly what differences in materials and layering caused differences in performance and feel.

One of the things you give up with a local manufacturer in most cases is the ability to just "send it back" and be done with it. The problem with this is that you then have to start all over. What you gain with an independent is the ability to work with someone who can create a wider range of different layerings and also make adjustments after the fact based on the knowledge of what layer to adjust based on your feedback. This can also be a big advantage if you know that the "guts" of the mattress is right but it just needs fine tuning. It would also be interesting to have a hybrid comfort layer as I am also a fan of thinner memory foam layers in combination with other materials to take advantage of the benefits of both. Your comments about the Bellafina or the SS hybrid would be in line with this as any softening in the memory foam would not be as dramatic (there is a thinner layer to soften).

In any case ... it would probably be well worth exploring the independent option even if you don't go in that direction as it can certainly help in discovering what may work best for you ... and at least you know the value is there and it doesn't have to be "duplicated" if you do find something that works.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: Sealy Embody Introspection 04 Nov 2011 00:47 #32

  • SleeplessinDallas
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Sounds good! I'll do some research this weekend!

We're pretty confident that 100% natural latex will hold it's shape and supportivness without softening and sagging for several years?

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Re: Sealy Embody Introspection 04 Nov 2011 00:51 #33

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And you're exactly right about small changes equaling big differences. That's sort of why I gave up on SleepEZ. I just felt like I wasn't getting it right (like the Sovn I'd liked) and it was just becoming a big hassle. The advantage of a Sovn for latex (while overpriced) is that I can go in the store and lay on it! And then get it- just the same.

I did lay on the Bellafina and it was nice. Firmer than my Introspection even when they were both at the store. Tempurpedic confuses me a bit b/c people either love or hate it. My friends who have them all love them. Mattress stores rave about them. Yet, you do read some pretty negative reviews. So, something isn't all perfect all the time.

SS hybrid is a risk without trying it. But the return is great and easy, and the price is good.

I'll do some research on the independent makers this weekend :)

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Re: Sealy Embody Introspection 04 Nov 2011 23:26 #34

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Hi Sleepless,

We're pretty confident that 100% natural latex will hold it's shape and supportivness without softening and sagging for several years?


The one word answer is yes :)

The single paragraph answer is "mostly". The only "latex" I would tend to avoid is blended Dunlop that has a high SBR content (100% natural is much preferable). 100% natural Talalay in the very soft ILD's for some people may also not last as long as blended Talalay ... even though they may be preferable for other reasons. Even the worse choices in latex though tend to be more durable than the typical choices in other foams that are used in most mattresses.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: Sealy Embody Introspection 09 Nov 2011 03:14 #35

  • SonicExplorer
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Sleepless,

I vote you try the 10" Special again from SleepEz, but this time start with the usual F/M/S combination.

Since your preferences are so similar to mine in terms of softness vs. support, the above attempt will provide invaluable information.

:P

Sonic

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Re: Sealy Embody Introspection 03 Dec 2011 19:38 #36

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Hey guys,

I am not opposed to trying another online latex purchase, but my problem is this: my husband is pretty much fed up with my mattress merry-go-round. So, he's pretty unamused with continuing to swap them out.

But- all week my back has hurt on the Introspection, which sucks b/c the first two months or so were great! But- as the foam has been softening, it makes my back hurt. As you know, this is the story of my life- I find the right support/firmness & life is good with a mattress for a few months- then inevitably within "x" amount of time, it starts to sag, soften, mush. And then my back hurts. Tonight will mark my return to the guest room for a while b/c this morning was BAD and I can't take it again. Still hurts now. Usually wears off sooner in the day than this.

I am very interested in these Sovn beds- either all latex (although, not sure I love that feel?) or the firmer coils + 2" of 25ILD natural latex on top. Mostly b/c I can go there, try it, and not be guessing and 'trying' to replicate- which did not go well for me last time with SleepEZ trying to replicate and wound up way too firm & was causing what can best be described as fatigue.

Ugh. I am so fed up. And my husband is like "I am beginning to think it's you, not the bed- not sure if throwing more $ at a much more expensive bed is going to solve it since you have had this happen with all the ones you were sure would be good before this". So, we're sort of at a standstill over here. :( Which means I'll be sleeping in the guest room until I can get him on board. So frustrating! And really he's right- I am terrified that I'll finally pull the trigger on a Sovn bed and what if the same thing happens? Then I am out some definite $$.

I am pretty confident in the durability/longevity of the 100% latex, but I think I might be one of those people that just doesnt actually love the feel of an all latex bed. And I think I'm pretty confident in the quality of their pocket coil springs, but again- we are not small people (I am 5'7" 170lbs & hubby is 6' 220lbs). Perhaps that is our problem? Needing to determine for sure if their pocket coils will be durable enough to hold us. PLUS- we have two big dogs that are often in the bed with us also. That's a lot of weight.

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Re: Sealy Embody Introspection 03 Dec 2011 22:16 #37

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Hi Sleepless,

That's not good regarding the returning back pain. It's a good thing you have such a long refund time because I get a sense that that's the option that is next ... and then of course new decisions. Your experience does go to show though that polyfoam and especially memory foam will soften in the first few weeks (to different degrees with different foams) and that a little on the firm side is usually better than "just right" in the showroom.

I don't think that pocket coils will be your weak link as long as they are good quality (which the BE clearly is). It may be interesting to call and have a talk with Dan at www.baybed.com/ (another one of our members) who specializes in pocket coils with latex on top (including split constructions) and would have a lot of experience with this type of construction. They are also modular (build your own) and so can offer options of exchange within a general construction type that you seem to prefer (latex over pocket coils). He would have experience with many different types of body weights, shapes and sleeping positions and his knowledge and opinions may be helpful whether you purchase from him or not.

He might even have some first hand knowledge of the effect on longevity of having a couple of big dogs sharing the bed :)

Overall though I think the comfort layers are the biggest issue ... and with latex you have little to worry about regarding initial softening and as long as you get the thickness and firmness right (which you seem to have narrowed down with the BE) you shouldn't have the same problems.

Phoenix.
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: Sealy Embody Introspection 03 Dec 2011 23:11 #38

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Hi Sleepless, sorry to hear things are not getting resolved. For whater it is worth, I just ordered the same latex bed you previously tried, except I went with the soft top layer. I will let you know the results when I receive it in about a week. Also, since your preference of support vs. comfort is very similar to mine (based on our experience with Embody beds), I'll offer two things that you might want to consider...

1) A firm coil bed w/latex topper (as Phoenix mentioned). I really liked this type of bed a lot and was very surprised at how well this combination provided excellent support (more than almost any latex bed I tried) while still feeling very much like latex bed WRT comfort. I found these beds to often times be called "chiropractic" or "orthopedic" beds. The only reason I did not buy one of these is the price was nearly the same as a latex bed, and I did not want to have to pay that kind of money for a coil bed that would almost surely wear out within 10 years if not sooner (given the no-flip nature of coil beds these days). But if you feel you are about out of options, then this is definitely something I would recommend seriously looking into.

2) If you decide to go back to trying latex, you might want to try a zoned core. There is actually a rather inexpensive 6" 3-zone Dunop blend core that I bellieve was 32/35/32 ILD. I tried it and it did feel supportive without being "obvious" in terms of transitions. I think you can buy these cores on eBay for under $500 and then just experiment with latex toppers. In your case I'd probalby start with either a 2" or 3" softer ILD. I strongly suspect one of those would work - and worse case you'd only guess wrong once. If you experiment with a Talalay core be very careful. I tried 36 ILD and 40 ILD 6" cores and neither were supportive enough by themselves for me. So knowing your history I'd probably suggest to veer away from a Talalay core and stay with a dunlop.

Phoenix may have further opinion on the second option above. And although I admit making decisions by 3rd party proxy is usually unwise, I'm only chiming in on this thread because I'm aware of how similar our prefences are - so maybe some of my research & experience during my own personal matress-quest may be helpful in some way.

Sonic

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Last edit: by SonicExplorer.

Re: Sealy Embody Introspection 05 Dec 2011 02:29 #39

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Thanks so much guys!

The good news is that my husband is also waking up with back pain about half the time these days, so today he finally caved and agreed to go try the Willow bed at Sovn. He also liked the Willow "C" model- very supportive, but enough cush on top from the 25ILD talalay. And I do think he was impressed with the quality. And they say their 10 year warranty is "absolutely no sag"- none of the 1.5" thing. So, will give him some time to think it over and go from there. I think we're both in agreement that after SleepEZ and Sam's, online mattress shopping may not be the route we want to go again. So, hopefully we can work out a more appropriate price with Sovn since we've been able to go in person and pick out the one we like.

While we were there today, I layed on their 100% latex bed as well. The one I like best is their "A" model, which is 6" of 29ILD dunlop & 2" of 25ILD talalay. But- I think I'm figuring out my preferences. I think I am one of those people that likes to sleep "in" the mattress a little more than "on" it. BUT- that is a tough balance for me as a stomach sleeper b/c if I am too much "in" the mattress, my back bows and hurts. But, even with my favorite latex model, I see now that it's still just not quite "cozy" and I'm much more on top. The combo of the firmer coils + talalay latex seems to be a nice balance if contouring, a bit more traditional feel, and yet still some of the feel and benefits of latex in the comfort layer.

I'll keep you posted! SonicExplorer- let me know how your SleepEZ goes!

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Re: Sealy Embody Introspection 05 Dec 2011 02:32 #40

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BTW- we are both moving to the guest room tonight. Ha. Too bad Sovn beds take 4-6 weeks for delivery! This could be another long holiday season in the guest room. :(

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