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DIY Mattress Foam compare to the Mattress Companies 05 Jun 2017 08:14 #1

  • DanInNJ
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I contacted the ebay seller, Mattress247 about their Talalay foam supplier, and they mentioned that they are sourced by Radium Foam, the same supplier as Savvy Rest and i'm sure quite a few other very expensive mattress makers that are $3,000 and up. Now, I did look at some of the posts already on DIY beds, but does anyone know if the foam from Mattress 247 is the same as the foam in the other more expensive mattress companies since it's the same supplier?

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DIY Mattress Foam compare to the Mattress Companies 05 Jun 2017 11:42 #2

  • phoenix
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Hi DanInNj,

I contacted the ebay seller, Mattress247 about their Talalay foam supplier, and they mentioned that they are sourced by Radium Foam, the same supplier as Savvy Rest and i'm sure quite a few other very expensive mattress makers that are $3,000 and up. Now, I did look at some of the posts already on DIY beds, but does anyone know if the foam from Mattress 247 is the same as the foam in the other more expensive mattress companies since it's the same supplier


Savvy Rest does use 100% NR Talalay from Radium, but they are not “specific” about the ILDs they use, just ranges – soft around 15-20 ILD, medium around 30-37 ILD and firm around 37-44 ILD. I'm not sure if any of the component suppliers would know if they have the "exact" same foam that Savvy Rest uses, but they probably have ILDs that are very similar.

As a reference, Talalay in the western world will be sourced from either Radium or Talalay Global (TG). Both companies supply different formulations, some which can be proprietary for larger clients. As an example, Radium has their Embrace, Intuition, Natural Superior and FRX lines, while Talalay Global had additives like phase change materials, graphite and copper they will put in some specialty products.

They are both available in either 100% natural or in a 30/70 blend (NR/SBR) and in practical terms I would treat them as being comparable in terms of durability.

TG blended Talalay comes in target ILD's of 14, 19, 24, 28, 32, 36, 40, & 44. You can see the approximate density of each of these in post #2 here .

Radium blended Talalay comes in target ILD's (rounded to the closest whole number) of 11, 15, 19, 22, 25, 29, 34, & 40

Talalay Global uses a filler in their latex formula while Radium doesn't

Talalay Global 100% natural Talalay comes in N1 (14 - 19), N2 (20 - 24), N3 (25 - 29), N4 (30 - 34), & N5 (35 - 42) with nominal midpoints of about 17, 22, 27, 32, 38.

Radium 100% natural has ILD targets (rounded to the closest whole number) of 9, 13, 18, 23, 28, 33, 39, and 44

You can see a chart for Radium's ILD range here .

Most of the manufacturers that I've talked that work extensively with both say that they have a comparable "feel" although of course this is subjective, and they all tend to agree that both brands are superior foams. The difference between them would be relatively small and would probably reflect the different ILD's, amount of filler, and any other differences in compounding formulas and pincore patterns they have.

In practical terms ... while there are slight differences between them ... I would treat them as equals and the fact that both are Talalay (either blended or natural) would outweigh for me the source of the latex. Radium tends to dominate the Talalay latex market in Europe and Talalay Global tends to dominate the North American market and both of them also do business in each other's primary markets. They are both well respected and quality products and I would focus more on issues such as which type of Talalay I wanted, the ILD's of the layers I wanted, and the overall value of the mattress rather than on one brand over another.

Phoenix
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DIY Mattress Foam compare to the Mattress Companies 09 Jun 2017 06:29 #3

  • DanInNJ
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I went in to Hibernate bedding in Bernardsville, NJ yesterday to try out a 3 layer Savvy Rest since I had never laid down on one. They had a split mattress with (3) 3" layers on each side set up on left Soft Talalay top, Med Dunlop middle and Firm Dunlop bottom andon the right: Soft Dunlop top, Med Dunlop middle and Firm Dunlop bottom. I am 240 lbs and 6'5" tall and this seems to be the configuration that is recommended by a lot of the other online sites for my size and weight, but I got the pinching feeling at the bottom of my spine much like i'm getting on the Essentia Bionda mattress I got. i think that my mid region is bottoming out on too hard of a lower layer. Samantha at Hibernate was very helpful and patient with moving the layers around. I thought I would try something that was similar to the configuration of the mattress that I really enjoyed at the Healthy Choice store in summit, the Violet, which had all Talalay (top to bottom) Med 2", Soft 3" and 6" Firm. In this case, the closest I got that felt awesome and very similar with what layers they had at the store was (top to bottom): Soft dunlop, Soft Talalay and Medium Dunlop. I tried it with Medium Dunlop on Top instead, but felt it was a bit too firm. I know Phoenix will bring up the PPP comment regarding every person being different, but if you want that similar feel, and you have a similar body to myself, this was pretty close, at least with the Savvy Rest Serenity mattress, and of course with the topper, it was even better, but then you're getting up in to the $4000 range. In any case, as I mentioned before, I wanted to get an idea of what layering might work for me, but since Savvy doesn't release their ILD and density numbers, It's hard to estimate what might work even with the same vendor, Radium foam.

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DIY Mattress Foam compare to the Mattress Companies 09 Jun 2017 12:58 #4

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Hi DanInNJ,

For ILD ranges, Savvy Rest has given in the past 22-30 for their soft Dunlop. 15-20 for their soft Talalay and 31-39 for their medium Dunlop.

As you mentioned, PPP is extremely important and personal to each individual, and while it may be appropriate for you, the configuration you seem to prefer would be one that wouldn’t commonly be recommended for someone of your BMI. The most plush recommendation that Savvy Rest generally recommends is soft Talalay, soft Talalay and firm Dunlop, but anyone over 160 pounds they recommend something more substantial. For someone who likes to climb “into” bed, they recommend a configuration of soft Talalay, soft Dunlop and medium Dunlop – similar to what you tested. All of which points to the importance of personal testing.

I hope that ILD information is assistive.

Phoenix
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DIY Mattress Foam compare to the Mattress Companies 09 Jun 2017 14:15 #5

  • The Toddler
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Those ranges are helpful, Phoenix. So based on what you said above and what was reported in a previous post , Savvy Rest’s ILDs break down thusly:

Soft Talalay: 15-20; Medium Talalay: 30 to 37; Firm Talalay: 37 to 44
Soft Dunlop: 22-30; Medium Dunlop: 31-39

What about their firm Dunlop? And it’s interesting that they have such a huge gap between their soft and medium Talalays, with the latter being close to what other retailers rate as firm.

Also in that previous thread, it also looks like people were actually able to pin down actual N numbers for Savvy Rest, which match up with the Radium chart you mention above. That is, N5 for their soft Talalay (17.5 +/- 2.5), N7 for their medium Talalay (32.5 +/- 2.5), and N8 for their firm Talalay (38.5 +/-3.0).

Can we assume those are accurate for Savvy Rest? And what’s the deal with Radium’s ranges? Is natural Talalay something that can’t be dialed in with precision each time?

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DIY Mattress Foam compare to the Mattress Companies 09 Jun 2017 16:06 #6

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Hi The Toddler,

What about their firm Dunlop?


In the past they’ve listed 40+ ILD for their firm Dunlop.

And it’s interesting that they have such a huge gap between their soft and medium Talalays, with the latter being close to what other retailers rate as firm.


With all of the combinations that they offer (ability to mix of Talalay and Dunlop), these would be the ranges that they feel work best. Terminology such as “plush” or “firm” are not standardized for latex layers from different manufacturers using component-style systems, and should only be used as comparators within that manufacturer’s lineup.

That is, N5 for their soft Talalay (17.5 +/- 2.5), N7 for their medium Talalay (32.5 +/- 2.5), and N8 for their firm Talalay (38.5 +/-3.0).


Yes, those ILDs line up with the ranges that Savvy Rest has mentioned in the past.

Can we assume those are accurate for Savvy Rest? And what’s the deal with Radium’s ranges? Is natural Talalay something that can’t be dialed in with precision each time?


As Savvy Rest doesn’t release all of the specifics of their foams and considers some of that information proprietary (and it’s in their interest to do so, as they know many people would want that information only to “showroom” their mattresses), there is only the past information that I have to reference, but there is no way to know that it is completely “accurate”.

Regarding ILDs, they are never specific numbers, but always ranges. Different materials including latex have a variance across the surface of the 6" core so in one place it may be say 24 ILD and in another part of the core it may be 22 or 26. the ILD rating is usually an average of the range across the surface. Blended Talalay has less variance (+/-2 or so) than Dunlop which may vary by more (+/-4 or so). 100% natural Talalay can have a larger variance than blended Talalay.

So the bottom line is that Talalay is fairly consistently rated (especially blended Talalay) and would be roughly comparable between manufacturers and suppliers. Blended Talalay is the most consistent and 100% natural Talalay would have a wider ILD range. Talalay is often measured in 9 - 15 different places on the core and then averaged and rated by the "official" rating that the average is closest to.

Phoenix
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DIY Mattress Foam compare to the Mattress Companies 11 Jun 2017 10:10 #7

  • DanInNJ
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When I was at the mattress store I didn't have all the different layers to play with. So even without having the ILD numbers I figured it was possible that a soft Dunlop was the same as a medium talalay and the the soft talalay they had on the second layer and then the medium Dunlop on the bottom would be similar to a firm talalay, which was the case for the healthy choice violet of medium soft and then firm talalay on the bottom. And healthy choice described the violet as firm. It wasn't as if I sank in to the mattress either. It still felt somewhat firm. I also tried the pure talalay bliss nature and wanted to buy it right away, but want to try out the diy route.

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DIY Mattress Foam compare to the Mattress Companies 11 Jun 2017 17:17 #8

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Hi DanInNJ,

even without having the ILD numbers I figured it was possible that a soft Dunlop was the same as a medium talalay and the the soft talalay they had on the second layer and then the medium Dunlop on the bottom would be similar to a firm talalay


No, these would not be equivalent feels. Your best option would be to stay with the same type of latex (compare Talalay to Talalay, not Talalay to Dunlop), and realize that while you may not have the exact same ILD, if trying to compare a “plush” Talalay to another, you’ll probably at least be “in the ballpark” if you stick within a “plush” range (generally could be in the 15-20 range, just as an example). This is all part of the trial and error of the DIY process.

Phoenix
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DIY Mattress Foam compare to the Mattress Companies 10 Jul 2017 19:10 #9

  • The Toddler
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Regarding ILDs, they are never specific numbers, but always ranges. Different materials including latex have a variance across the surface of the 6" core so in one place it may be say 24 ILD and in another part of the core it may be 22 or 26. the ILD rating is usually an average of the range across the surface. Blended Talalay has less variance (+/-2 or so) than Dunlop which may vary by more (+/-4 or so). 100% natural Talalay can have a larger variance than blended Talalay.

So the bottom line is that Talalay is fairly consistently rated (especially blended Talalay) and would be roughly comparable between manufacturers and suppliers. Blended Talalay is the most consistent and 100% natural Talalay would have a wider ILD range. Talalay is often measured in 9 - 15 different places on the core and then averaged and rated by the "official" rating that the average is closest to.


Hi Phoenix,

I had a followup question about what you said about ILD ranges. I came across a previous post where a user posted picture of a label on Radium's natural latex. It looks like there's a very specific number, 26.7, which is slightly lower than the average of 27.5 for N6F listed in the chart you've referenced previously. Am I reading that correctly? I'm just wondering if one could theoretically ask a retailer to provide a layer of latex that's on the firmer or softer end of the range in a particular N designation?

Also, could you take a look at your inbox? I sent you two private messages in the last week for advice with a purchase situation. I got an e-mail from Radium that confirmed my suspicions about the product I received. Thanks!

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DIY Mattress Foam compare to the Mattress Companies 11 Jul 2017 08:38 #10

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Hi The Toddler,

With the testing of the core in different areas, an "average" ILD can be derived and if this falls within the parameters that a manufacturer sets for a specific designation (in the case you're mentioning 27.5, +/- 2.5) it would meet that designation. You certainly can request from a supplier if they are able to look at their stock that is open and see if they have any items in the "upper end" of the range that you're requesting, although it would be unlikely for someone to detect a difference from a 26.7 to a 27.5 ILD core, for example.

I saw your note - sorry I missed that!

Phoenix
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