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Winkbeds 02 Jul 2015 11:15 #1

  • notadoctor
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I'm new to the forum and have been reading up on some of the wealth of info available here. I've been looking for a new king size mattress for my wife and I, and like many, didn't want to deal with traditional mainstream stores.

Conforming to the millennial cliche, I turned to the Internet. I was almost settled on the Saatva mattress before finding the winkbeds innerspring mattress.

I emailed winkbeds asking for some in depth info. The response was prompt. The owner, Dan, also called me. I mentioned this site and he said he had already been in contact with Phoenix, so I imagine he will be chiming in with his own analysis. I'll quote the email from Dan.

Regarding the construction layers, below is what goes into our mattress starting from top to bottom, all foams are produced in North America:

Construction

Fabric - Damask hybrid, polyester blend stretch fabric

Fire Barrier - Cotton + Boron

Sleep Surface (2")
1.5 lb density Hypersoft foam with infusion of gel (17 ILD) (1")
1.5 lb Hypersoft foam (no gel) (17 ILD) (1")

Mircro Airsprings
Foam encased 2.4 inch innerspring micro pocket coils, micro coils are individually fabric wrapped (1353/queen), and made with 17 gauge wire.

Inner panel to separate pillow top sleep surface from mattress core

Core
Pre-compressed densified cotton pad

High profile foam encased pocket coils (806/queen), coils are individually fabric wrapped, foam is 1.5 lb density and 4.5 inch wide (65 ILD). This foam is very firm and provides the perimeter support.

2 inch support base foam 1.5 lb density (28 ILD)


The comfort layer looks to be dense enough, although I would expect a gel infused foam to be denser than 1.5lb.

The 101 night money-back guarantee seems like one of the best in the online mattress business, and takes a lot of the uncertainty out of buying online.

Any input is appreciated.

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Winkbeds 02 Jul 2015 13:00 #2

  • phoenix
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Hi notadoctor,

Thanks for providing all the specs for the winkbeds. I did talk with them a few weeks ago and they were going to confirm a couple of the specs that they provided but I haven't talked with them since so I appreciate that you confirmed the information I had. I updated their specs in post #2 here of the "simplified choice" mattress topic and removed them from the "AVOID until complete specs are known" section of the table.

The microcoil and all the layers below it are all good quality materials and components that wouldn't be a weak link in the mattress IMO but I would be a little cautious with having 2" of 1.5 lb polyfoam in the top layers of the mattress. Their specs are certainly better than most of the mainstream mattresses you will encounter which tend to use thicker layers of 1.5 lb or even lower density polyfoam in their top layers but 2" of 1.5 lb polyfoam is still a little thicker than the guidelines I would normally suggest which are "around an inch or so of lower density polyfoam". It's certainly not bad but one of the things that we talked about on the phone was using higher density polyfoam (1.8 lb or higher or even 2.0 lb for higher weight ranges) in at least one of the top layers which would put it inside the guidelines that I would normally suggest.

The 1.5 lb polyfoam foam encasement is also a little lower density than I would normally suggest but this would play a bigger role for those who regularly sleep with more of their weight concentrated on the outside edges of their mattress or who use the edge for sitting on a regular basis. Using 1.8 lb polyfoam or even 2.0 lb polyfoam for higher weights would improve the durability of the edge support here as well.

I do like that they use a pocket coil in their bottom layer instead of a Bonnell coil like the Saatva which would provide better contouring and motion isolation.

Overall they are certainly in a better quality/value range than most of the innerspring or "coil on coil" mattresses that you would find in the mainstream industry but I would still be a little cautious because the 2" of 1.5 lb polyfoam they are using in the top layers are "on the edge" of being a weak link in the mattress.

The 101 night money-back guarantee seems like one of the best in the online mattress business, and takes a lot of the uncertainty out of buying online.


Most of the simplified choice mattresses have a trial period and return policy that ranges between 75 days and 120 days which would all provide plenty of time to decide whether a mattress was a suitable choice. Most people would know whether they made a suitable choice in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) within the first month or so of sleeping on a mattress.

Phoenix
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Winkbeds 11 Sep 2015 10:08 #3

  • dejenns1971
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Hi Phoenix,

I have been looking at "hybrid" beds that combine innerspring and foam and was considering WinkBeds. In regards to your concern about the 2" of 1.5lb foam in the top layers of the mattress, I am wondering how you think this compares to another mattress I looked at. It's a model from one of the dreaded big corporate companies, but when you live in a smaller city, your in-store options are limited!

The model we looked at and liked the feel of was at Denver Mattress and the specs can be found here:
denvermattress.furniturerow.com/dmc/Nayeli-Plush-Group-/Nayeli-Plush/prod1850048//#.VfMGNE1Mupo

We also checked out and liked this model from Lebeda, though, unfortunately, there aren't really any specs on their website
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: lebeda.com/vitality-plush/

My husband and I just wrapped up a trial period on Brooklyn Bedding's "Best Mattress Ever" in the medium firmness and are back in the market. The BME was much too firm for us. I'm a side sleeper and would often wake up with a sore shoulder/hip/lower back. At times even my EAR would go numb from laying on my side (though, perhaps I need a new pillow too!). We are staying away from 100% memory foam beds because I sleep really hot and don't like the "quick sand" feel of them. Latex alone seems to be too firm for us so we decided to start looking into hybrids. Anyway, my husband is now pretty gun-shy in terms of purchasing a mattress online that he cannot lay on and try out. Personally, I just want the best value for my money and am willing to take the risk of an online purchase again which is why I continue to do research!

Any thoughts you might have on WinkBeds vs. the Beautyrest and Lebeda models would be much appreciated!
Thanks!

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Winkbeds 11 Sep 2015 10:51 #4

  • phoenix
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Hi dejenns1971,

I have been looking at "hybrid" beds that combine innerspring and foam and was considering WinkBeds. In regards to your concern about the 2" of 1.5lb foam in the top layers of the mattress, I am wondering how you think this compares to another mattress I looked at. It's a model from one of the dreaded big corporate companies, but when you live in a smaller city, your in-store options are limited!

The model we looked at and liked the feel of was at Denver Mattress and the specs can be found here:
denvermattress.furniturerow.com/dmc/Naye...50048//#.VfMGNE1Mupo


The Winkbeds is "on the edge" of having a weak link and if the 1.5 lb polyfoam was a little thinner (in the range of "about an inch or so") or if it was a little bit higher density (1.8 lbs or higher) then it wouldn't be a weak link in the mattress.

Having said that ... it uses higher quality and more durable materials than the Simmons Nayeli Plush you linked which uses a total of 3" of 2.5 lb gel memory foam (along with another 1/2" of unidentified foam) which is a very low quality material (4 lb density memory foam is the minimum density I would consider). These would be an obvious weak link in the mattress and it contains thicker layers of much lower quality/density foams than I would consider. As you can see in the guidelines here ... I would generally avoid Simmons mattresses completely (along with Sealy and Serta as well)

We also checked out and liked this model from Lebeda, though, unfortunately, there aren't really any specs on their website: lebeda.com/vitality-plush/


If you can find out the information listed here and post it on the forum I'd be happy to make some comments about the quality and durability of the materials in the Lebeda Quanta L Hybrid.

The very limited information on their website says that it contains Talalay latex comfort layers which is a high quality and durable material and that the mattress is two sided as well which would also add to the durability of the mattress (see post #3 here ) so it "probably" doesn't contain any lower quality materials that would be a weak link in the design and in this case it would have a clear advantage in terms of durability compared to the other two mattresses you linked but I would need to know if there are any other layers that are missing in the description and more specifics about the design before I can make any more specific or meaningful comments about it.

Phoenix
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Winkbeds 13 Sep 2015 14:01 #5

  • dejenns1971
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Here is the info the sales guy from Lebeda provided. He said if I have further questions, he could contact the factory.

* 932 Quantum Edge coil base
Bolsa coils inside (larger diameter, 14 gauge)
Perimeter coils Quantum (smaller diameter, 15 gauge)
Both type are Individually wrapped coils

*Steel border rods

* 1" thick layer of Talalay Latex foam (24 ILD, 3.5 lb density) on each side

* Flippable two sided design

* Fire resistant barrier

* 15 year non-prorated warranty

* Organic cotton ticking: 30% organic cotton, 70% polyester

Let me know if this is enough detail to determine the quality of the materials.

Thanks!

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Winkbeds 13 Sep 2015 14:35 #6

  • phoenix
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Hi dejenns1971,

* 932 Quantum Edge coil base
Bolsa coils inside (larger diameter, 14 gauge)
Perimeter coils Quantum (smaller diameter, 15 gauge)
Both type are Individually wrapped coils

*Steel border rods

* 1" thick layer of Talalay Latex foam (24 ILD, 3.5 lb density) on each side

* Flippable two sided design

* Fire resistant barrier

* 15 year non-prorated warranty

* Organic cotton ticking: 30% organic cotton, 70% polyester


If these are all the layers and components in the mattress (and you could make sure the thickness of each layer and component adds up to the height of the mattress or you could check the law tag to make sure there are no additional foam materials besides latex either in the mattress or the quilting) then there are no lower quality materials or weak links in the mattress so if you are confident that it's a good match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) and it compares well with the other mattresses you are considering based on all the other parts of your personal value equation that are important to you then it would certainly be well worth considering.

Phoenix
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Winkbeds 13 Sep 2015 15:33 #7

  • dejenns1971
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Thanks for all your help, Phoenix! I feel much better knowing that I'll be making a solid mattress purchase!

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Last edit: by dejenns1971. Reason: Hit submit too soon

Winkbeds 14 Sep 2015 13:29 #8

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Hi dejenns1971,

I'm looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding :)

Phoenix
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Winkbeds 05 Sep 2016 09:55 #9

  • notadoctor
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The microcoil and all the layers below it are all good quality materials and components that wouldn't be a weak link in the mattress IMO but I would be a little cautious with having 2" of 1.5 lb polyfoam in the top layers of the mattress. Their specs are certainly better than most of the mainstream mattresses you will encounter which tend to use thicker layers of 1.5 lb or even lower density polyfoam in their top layers but 2" of 1.5 lb polyfoam is still a little thicker than the guidelines I would normally suggest which are "around an inch or so of lower density polyfoam". It's certainly not bad but one of the things that we talked about on the phone was using higher density polyfoam (1.8 lb or higher or even 2.0 lb for higher weight ranges) in at least one of the top layers which would put it inside the guidelines that I would normally suggest.


A late update: we purchased this mattress in July of 2015. It was very comfortable to start, but the top layers have broken down. There are rather large indentations - over 1" at the worst - in the surface, with a large raised section in the center where nobody sleeps. My wife and I are not heavy by any means, around 170 lbs each. I contacted support for the mattress, and included pictures of the sag, but was simply told this was expected - the mattress was "conforming to my body shape."

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Winkbeds 05 Sep 2016 11:28 #10

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Hi notadoctor,

A late update: we purchased this mattress in July of 2015. It was very comfortable to start, but the top layers have broken down. There are rather large indentations - over 1" at the worst - in the surface, with a large raised section in the center where nobody sleeps.


Thanks for the update and I'm sorry to hear that your Winkbeds mattress isn't working out as well as you hoped for.

Experiences like yours are the reason that I advise caution and usually suggest avoiding buying a mattress that doesn't meet the durability guidelines here because the risk of premature foam softening and breakdown and the loss of comfort and support is higher.

I contacted support for the mattress, and included pictures of the sag, but was simply told this was expected - the mattress was "conforming to my body shape."


Mattress warranties only cover manufacturing defects and they don't cover the gradual (or more rapid in the case of lower quality/density comfort layers) loss of comfort and support that comes from foam softening that is the main reason that most people will need to replace their mattress. They also don't cover visible impressions that are less than the warranty exclusion. I don't know the exclusion for visible impressions in the Winkbed warranty is but it's typically 1.5" in the industry (although some mattresses may be less or more). In other words warranties have little to do with the durability or useful life of a mattress or how long it may be until you need to buy a new mattress. If there is an actual defect in the materials it will usually show up early in the life of the mattress but knowing the quality and durability of the materials in your mattress is always a much more reliable way to assess the durability and useful life of a mattress than the length of a warranty. There is more about mattress warranties in post #174 here .

Phoenix
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