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Help finding an outlet store, Metrowest Boston 22 Feb 2015 18:15 #1

  • Jtat84
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Hi all,

New to the forum but have spent the last hour or so reading up on all this information I never knew existed. I knew enough coming in to avoid the big retail chains (for mattresses and most anything), but haven't bought a mattress since I graduated college and was hoping someone could point me to a few outlet stores in my area of Metrowest, Boston MA.

I've heard of the "The Mattress Maker" and see that Spindle Mattress is recommended by the site, but was wondering if there were any others that might be worth checking out. Thanks

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Help finding an outlet store, Metrowest Boston 22 Feb 2015 18:41 #2

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Hi Jtat84,

was hoping someone could point me to a few outlet stores in my area of Metrowest, Boston MA.


The better options or possibilities I'm aware of in and around the Boston area (subject to the "value" guidelines here ) are listed in post #2 here .

I'm looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding and of course any comments or questions you may have along the way that I can help with :).

Phoenix
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Help finding an outlet store, Metrowest Boston 23 Feb 2015 04:29 #3

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Phoenix,

Thanks for your quick reply. That list is perfect. If you have the time, it'd be great to get your early read on if my search is on the right track. My wife and I will be upgrading to a King Platform bed that will be delivered in 6 weeks or so (Link if needed) . Appears to be a solid foundation vs slats, though does not have padding.

I'm 6'3 190 while she's 5'8 150, both in our early 30's side/back/stomach sleeping positions. We're currenty on an 7 year old "S" brand innerspring mattress that is on the firm side. Objectively, it seems like either all-latex (natural) or a latex hybrid is the way to go, though neither of us have yet to sleep on foam, so we need to try it out. That said, buying online is probably off the table. Budget is flexible, say the "midpoint" is $1,800-$2000

Couple questions I have off the bat
1) Should I worry about buying a separate foundation for our future mattress? Or is the platform good enough?
2) Given it's a platform, should I limit my search to one-sided mattresses?
3) We both have allergies and currently sleep with an all-encasing mattress cover. Is this something that would play a factor? I think the higher quality covers still "breathe."
4) Seems like a silly question, but do mattresses nowadays require separate mattress pads?
5) If for whatever reason, latex doesn't work out - is our next best bet a high quality innerspring? I'm guessing pocket coils, lower gauge, without the pillowtop?
6) Any early recommendations of mattresses you recommend we seek and try out?

Thanks again - as you can probably tell I tend to over analyze most large purchases, so this site/forum is great!

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Help finding an outlet store, Metrowest Boston 23 Feb 2015 09:06 #4

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Jtat84,

1) Should I worry about buying a separate foundation for our future mattress? Or is the platform good enough?


A solid platform that has good center support to the floor will be fine for most mattresses (but always check with the manufacturer to make sure your support system is suitable) and the only reason to add a separate foundation would be to add height to your sleeping surface. A solid platform doesn't breathe under your mattress so if you are in a humid area or there are other risk factors that could affect the risk of mold or mildew then it may be worthwhile adding a bed rug on top of the platform (see post #10 here ).

2) Given it's a platform, should I limit my search to one-sided mattresses?


There are some two sided mattresses that would be fine on a solid platform so I would go by the manufacturers recommendations for a support surface. If you really like a two sided mattress that requires a box spring (with springs) then you can always use the box spring on top of the platform although it would raise the height of your sleeping surface.

3) We both have allergies and currently sleep with an all-encasing mattress cover. Is this something that would play a factor? I think the higher quality covers still "breathe."


There is more about dust mite allergies in post #2 here and about different types of mattress encasements (some are more breathable than others) in post #2 here . An allergy encasement will work equally well on any mattress that it fits.

4) Seems like a silly question, but do mattresses nowadays require separate mattress pads?


No ... a mattress pad is most suitable if you need to do some "fine tuning" to the comfort of your mattress. If the mattress by itself is a suitable choice for you then you won't need one ... only a mattress protector that is thinner and will have less effect on the "feel" of the mattress. If the mattress encasement you are using is waterproof then you won't need a mattress protector but a non waterproof and more breathable encasement (for dust mites and allergens) with a fitted sheet style protector (for protection against body fluids, spills, and accidents) that can be more easily removed and cleaned is a good combination. There is more about the pros and cons of the different types of mattress protectors in post #89 here .

5) If for whatever reason, latex doesn't work out - is our next best bet a high quality innerspring? I'm guessing pocket coils, lower gauge, without the pillowtop?


Every type of mattress will have higher quality and more durable versions and lower quality and less durable versions and I would treat the choice of materials or the type of mattress as strictly a preference issue not a "better/worse" issue. No matter what type of mattress you tend to prefer I would always make sure that it uses high quality and durable materials. There is more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase in post #13 here but choosing the "best" mattress for you comes down to testing for suitability (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial) or what I call PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences), checking the materials inside your mattress to make sure that there are no lower quality materials or "weak links" (see this article ), and then comparing your finalists for value based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

6) Any early recommendations of mattresses you recommend we seek and try out?


While I can certainly help to narrow things down and help with "how" to choose and what to avoid ... I don't make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or materials because only you can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to know which type of mattress design or materials would be best for you based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or theory at a distance (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).

Phoenix
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Help finding an outlet store, Metrowest Boston 05 Mar 2015 13:44 #5

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Hi Phoenix,

Thanks for your help to this point. I think we've narrowed it down to two mattresses, so it'd be great to get your input on pros/cons, things to keep in mind etc. For the benefit of others, I've also included brief reviews of the stores we visited from the list provided in your first response.

The choices:
We are currently debating between the pocketed coil mattress w/ 3" latex topper from Gardner Mattress ( Link ) and the "Medium" 10" layered latex mattress from Spindle Mattress ( Link ).

Both of these seemed to have very comparable comfort, despite the differing constructions. Folks seem to be pretty familiar with how the Spindle Mattress is built, so i'll skip that. My only hesitation with that is I worry the medium may be too soft (though my wife likes it). I suppose I could get firm on my side, but I'm honestly split between medium and firm. The Gardner mattress is a pocket coil mattress with the coil section wrapped in poly foam, covered by 3" of Talalay latex. Seemed very comfortable, though I did at times think it felt a bit "springy".

Any insights on how to help narrow our selection?

The visits
1) Boston Bed Company - We visited here first and tried the two Latex options (both over polyfoam). The clerk didn't really know any specs beyond what was written on the insert and also said "The density of the foam probably doesn't matter" when I asked. Regardless, neither latex option was very comfortable. We did try two traditional pocket coil mattresses, the "Daniela" and the "Ashley". Both were the same mattresses with the latter having a pillowtop. These were suprisingly comfortable, however, I was unable to get any details on the construction (from the clerk nor an email that went unanswered). For a king size pocket-coil mattress, the prices were well under $1000 and seemed to be a great value.

2) Spindle Mattress - Spoke with Neal and tried out the 4 options (soft/med/firm/xfirm) in the showroom. As expected, he was very helpful and answered all questions. What I didn't know was that in addition to the 5% mattress underground discount, he also would take 5% off if we picked up the mattress, and 2.5% if we paid with a check. That stacks to 12.5% off.

3) Gardner Mattresss - Didn't spend too much time talking to the clerk and we tried out all of the mattresses. He was able to walk us through the store history, construction method, etc. Pretty simple experience without any pressure tactics (though neither of the 3 stores were remotely close to "pressure").

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Help finding an outlet store, Metrowest Boston 05 Mar 2015 14:42 #6

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Hi Jtat84,

Any insights on how to help narrow our selection?


It sounds like you've done some very good research and none of your choices have any lower quality materials or "weak links" in their design.

There is a little more about innerspring/latex hybrids vs an all latex mattress in post #13 here but this is really a preference choice and one wouldn't be "better" than the other.

When you are down to finalists that are all choices between "good and good" and none of them have any weak links or lower quality materials in their design and if there are no clear winners between them then you are in the fortunate position that any of them would likely be a suitable choice and post #2 here can help you make a final choice based on your local testing, your conversations with each of them, your confidence about the suitability of each one, the prices, the exchange or return options you have after a purchase, any additional extras that are part of each purchase, and on "informed best judgement" based on all the other objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

The goal of good research is to reach the point where you have a few finalists that would all make good choices and where your final choice is "difficult" ... which it sounds like you have ... but the final choice is something that only each person can decide for themselves. There are certainly no cautions or warning signs that I can see with either of them.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Help finding an outlet store, Metrowest Boston 06 Mar 2015 07:52 #7

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Thanks Phoenix,

We were leaning towards the Gardner option. However, as I often do, I can't let a good thing rest. I sent an email to Gardner asking for input on the support that the 3" latex option offers. He was refreshingly candid and said that mattress really wasn't a good option for long-term support. Below is a snippet of the response (the ... are mine to signify unrelated lines I removed)

Long term I don't think the 3" version is the best option support wise...The 2" latex is an N 3 density and 3" is an N 2. Those translate to about 28 ILD and 19 ILD. Natural latex unlike the blended only is available in 6 firmness and the higher the number the firmer it is. In my opinion and I think many would agree the more dense the latex the better...The internet has pumped up latexes credibility somewhat. It is a great cushioning material but by no means is it infallible. Latex will soften in the areas where you sleep and settle slightly. Obviously this happens to lower density versions more easily than higher.


19 ILD seems pretty soft, as I'm near 200lbs. Is that an accurate statement on my part? Is more information needed to conclude the mattress doesn't offer much support (This guy seems pretty knowledgeable so I'm okay taking his word for it)? We are both 30 so it's not like we have chronic back pain, but coming from a firm mattress, I don't want to throw out my alignment - especially if the less dense latex will settle.

For comparison - do you know what ILDs are for the medium Spindle Mattress (and firm)? Now I'm thinking of getting that mattress, with the second medium layer split so I have the option to replace my side with another firm if I have trouble adjusting. The wife seems to like the traditional mattress experience however (delivery, etc) and I think is still dubious of sleeping on straight foam.

Yeesh,

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Help finding an outlet store, Metrowest Boston 06 Mar 2015 11:41 #8

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Hi Jtat84,

19 ILD seems pretty soft, as I'm near 200lbs. Is that an accurate statement on my part? Is more information needed to conclude the mattress doesn't offer much support (This guy seems pretty knowledgeable so I'm okay taking his word for it)? We are both 30 so it's not like we have chronic back pain, but coming from a firm mattress, I don't want to throw out my alignment - especially if the less dense latex will settle.


Their comments are really bringing up two separate issues. One is about the suitability of a mattress and the other is about the durability of the materials inside it.

I would keep in mind that primary support comes from the deeper layers of a mattress not from the upper layers which are for pressure relief and secondary support. Careful testing using the testing guidelines in the tutorial will give you the best chance of knowing which mattress is the most suitable choice in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) for you without having to know the "why" behind the "what" ... but if you are interested there is more about primary or "deep" support and secondary or "surface" support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the "roles" of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between "support" and "pressure relief" and "feel".

Outside of the suitability of a mattress they also brought up the issue of the durability of 100% natural Talalay latex which is something different from PPP. While all latex is a very durable material compared to other types of foam ... they are correct that Latex International's 100% natural Talalay is less durable than their blended Talalay version ... particularly in lower ILD's. There is more about the difference between 100% natural Talalay and blended Talalay in post #2 here .

For comparison - do you know what ILDs are for the medium Spindle Mattress (and firm)? Now I'm thinking of getting that mattress, with the second medium layer split so I have the option to replace my side with another firm if I have trouble adjusting. The wife seems to like the traditional mattress experience however (delivery, etc) and I think is still dubious of sleeping on straight foam.


Dunlop and Talalay aren't directly comparable in terms of firmness using only ILD numbers because there are several factors that can affect how soft or firm a mattress (or an individual layer) feels besides just the ILD of the material (see post #4 here ) and Dunlop and Talalay that are the same thickness and ILD won't feel the same in terms of their firmness for most people because they have a different response curve and compression modulus (how quickly a material becomes firmer as you sink into it more deeply). There is more about the difference between Dunlop and Talalay in post #7 here .

In addition to this all the layers and components of a mattress will have an effect on all the other layers and on the mattress "as a whole" and one of the mattresses you are considering has an innerspring support core and the other one has a latex support core so this will have a significant effect on how they compare even if the top 3" of each of them were very similar in terms of firmness. There is more about the differences between an all latex mattress and an innerspring latex hybrid in post #28 here .

The ILD of different materials or different types and blends of latex also aren't always directly comparable to each other (see post #6 here ) partly because ILD can be measured in different ways and partly because ILD isn't the only factor that affects the softness or firmness of a material so again using the ILD or other specifications of a particular layer or combination of layers as a reliable indication of how any mattress will "feel" or how firm it will feel to you compared to another mattress with a different combination of layers can sometimes be more misleading than helpful.

The most reliable way to know how two mattresses compare for you (regardless of how they would compare for someone else) is based on your own personal testing and experience and the most reliable way to know how two mattresses will compare in terms of durability is based in knowing the type and quality of the materials inside it. There is more about the many variables that can affect the durability of a mattress relative to different body types and weight/BMI ranges in the durability guidelines here .

Having said all that ... Neal at Spindle will be able to give you good information about how the firmness of each of their layers roughly compares to various Talalay ILD's.

Mountaintop uses two different methods to test their ILD ranges. One of them is the amount of force it takes to compress the material by 25% and the other is the amount of force it takes to compress the same material by 40% (which of course would produce higher numbers).

Their 25% ILD ranges are ...

C0 9.5 - 12.5 ILD
C1 11.5 - 14.5 ILD
C2 17.5 - 20.5 ILD
C3 21.5 - 24.5 ILD
C4 29.5 - 32.5 ILD

Their 40% ILD ranges are

ILD Range
C0 14 - 20 ILD
C1 18 - 22 ILD
C2 27 - 33 ILD
C3 34 - 42 ILD
C4 44 - 54 ILD

The closest ILD approximations to Talalay for each of their different firmness levels for individual layers would be somewhere in the lower end of their 40% ILD range.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.
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