>

Welcome to The Mattress Underground FORUM! :cheer:
The first place to start your research is the Mattress Shopping Tutorial
Select the Search Forum tab below to gain access to answers to many mattress related questions.
Select the Ask An Expert tab below to reach out to any of our Expert Members for guidance and advice.

Welcome to The Mattress Underground FORUM! :cheer:

TOPIC:

Seeking advice on latex mattress for couple with very different body weights 17 Apr 2014 16:03 #16

  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 31974
Hi Clawdia,

Hi Phoenix - most of the 3" Talalay toppers I've seen are close to the $500 range. I'm trying to find one closer to $300, but would want a cover for it as well - I don't think an uncovered piece of N1 or 14-19 ILD would fare too well without a cover.


Unfortunately ... it's not too likely you will find an all natural Talalay topper with a good cover in that price range.

The lowest cost in blended Talalay will probably be closer to your target range with a good cover (perhaps still a little higher).

I'm still having bilateral hip pain radiating downward whenever I take the feather bed topper off the dunlop mattress, even though the mattress is soft. Just went to see my doctor about the pain, who put me on a prednisone taper (which has helped the pain, although I don't know why except that it always seems to help the joint/muscle pain caused by my auto-immune disease), and had back x-rays taken although I don't yet know the results. He's a DO and not an MD, for whatever that's worth, and did say if it's the mattress causing that type of pain he thinks it would be an indication that it's too firm rather than too soft since I told him my spine was in good alignment on the mattress.

That all amounts to the fact that I'm still trying to find a good solution that doesn't involve buying a rather expensive feather/down topper every 2-3 years, and a soft Talalay topper seems a logical option, and hopefully one that would last longer.


While of course all of this is just "best guess" information ... given that your featherbed seems to work for you I would suspect that you may need a softer fiber material on top or at least a material that has a more "relaxed" surface with less shear forces (see my comments in post #8 here and in post #7 here ).

If you do decide to try a Talalay topper I'll certainly be interested in finding out how it works for you.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by phoenix.

Seeking advice on latex mattress for couple with very different body weights 21 Apr 2014 11:49 #17

  • Clawdia
  • Clawdia's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 224
Hi Phoenix -

I've done some poking around on the internet, but still can't seem to understand the concept of "shear forces" when it comes to a mattress. Could you explain it a bit more in the "shear forces for idiots" kind of approach, please?

I know I can live with a featherbed - but I also know that it's been my experience that they need replacing every 2-3 years, or at least the ones I've had have been that way.
The baffling never seems to hold the contents where they should be for longer than that, and one reason for buying a latex bed, in my mind, is so one can stop spending money on a bed, except for linens, for many years.

I'm sure part of my problem is how picky I am, but for me a featherbed needs a bit more than 5% down mix, and it needs to be the pricier goose feathers because duck feathers never seem to lose their smell to me. The one I have now is the best The Company Store offered in 2011, and needs replacing. Pacific Coast doesn't like to disclose whether they're using duck or goose, or country of origin, and Downlite seems to have gone more to duck than anything else, and doesn't have much of a selection these days. Those are the only ones I've looked into in the sub-$500 range, because I just can't pay an exorbitant amount for one of the premium featherbeds, especially if even those might have a limited lifespan.

My back x-rays did show some scoliosis (don't know if that's new or a lifelong problem since I've never had my back x-rayed before) and some degenerative changes commonly seen with aging, and my doctor wants to refer me for some physical therapy. I'll be interested in seeing if the physical therapist has any input as far as whether my back is contributing to the hip pain, if it could be mattress related, or whatever else I can learn from the experience.

I just keep thinking about trying a Talalay topper because I think it would be softer than the comfort layer on the dunlop mattress, and should certainly last more than the 2-3 years that a featherbed will last. Then again, I sure don't want to be throwing more money away if this thing I don't understand called "shear forces" is a problem that can't be solved with a latex topper, no matter how it's made.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Seeking advice on latex mattress for couple with very different body weights 21 Apr 2014 12:15 #18

  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 31974
Hi Clawdia,

Latex is a very resilient and elastic material so when you compress it the latex beside the point of compression wants to pull back up and return to its original position with more force than other materials which can pull on the skin so under the point of compression the forces are downward and beside the point of compression along the skin the forces are upward. A more extreme example of shear forces would be the old child's game of giving someone an indian burn on the forearm where the skin is stretched in opposite directions. Shear forces are forces which act in different directions. Polyfoam and fiber quilting materials have less shear forces (they are less elastic and resilient) which is one of the reasons that some people prefer them with a latex mattress. Very low density or ILD latex would also have less shear forces than higher ILD latex but it's still a more resilient material than fiber or other types of foam.

A wool topper (see post #8 here ) may also work or even a lower cost down alternative (slick polyester) fiberbed may be helpful and it would be less costly to replace than a featherbed. A shredded latex or lanoodles topper may also be worth considering because the latex is in small pieces and the latex beside the point of compression isn't connected to the latex that is being compressed and can "move" instead of "stretch".

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by phoenix.

Seeking advice on latex mattress for couple with very different body weights 21 Apr 2014 13:15 #19

  • Clawdia
  • Clawdia's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 224
Thanks for the simplification - I think I've got a better handle on the concept now, altho it never would have occurred to me to apply that kind of thing to a mattress covered by a mattress protector and a sheet.

I do have one of the LaNoodle toppers, since sometime before last Christmas. It's helped, and is certainly better than not having it on the mattress, but the hip pain returned two different times now after periods of a couple of weeks when I've slept on that without the featherbed.

I just took the featherbed back off the bed today to give the LaNoodle topper another try. I like the way it feels, when I lie down on it I feel very comfortable. The only problem is that deep burning, aching bilateral hip pain that radiates towards my knees that so far only seems to be avoided by the use of the featherbed.

A lot of the time I think I should just give up and resign myself to always needing a featherbed, but then I go thru these periods of frustration about the whole thing and return to trying to understand the problem and arrive at a different solution, even though I'm aware there may be no better solution for me.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Seeking advice on latex mattress for couple with very different body weights 21 Apr 2014 13:39 #20

  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 31974
Hi Clawdia,

A lot of the time I think I should just give up and resign myself to always needing a featherbed, but then I go thru these periods of frustration about the whole thing and return to trying to understand the problem and arrive at a different solution, even though I'm aware there may be no better solution for me.


I admire your tenacity and while you're right that there may be no "perfect" solution when you are dealing with more challenging circumstances ... there may be some combination that can improve things to some degree.

I do have one of the LaNoodle toppers, since sometime before last Christmas. It's helped, and is certainly better than not having it on the mattress, but the hip pain returned two different times now after periods of a couple of weeks when I've slept on that without the featherbed.

I just took the featherbed back off the bed today to give the LaNoodle topper another try. I like the way it feels, when I lie down on it I feel very comfortable. The only problem is that deep burning, aching bilateral hip pain that radiates towards my knees that so far only seems to be avoided by the use of the featherbed.


Shear forces may not be the only thing that changes with a featherbed. Paradoxically ... while a featherbed can add some cushioning under the pressure points ... it also increases the surface area that is in contact with the latex which can reduce the amount it compresses.

This won't happen with the lanoodles so the layering that it works best on may be different from the layering that works best with the featherbed.

Can you remind me of the layering that works best for you with the featherbed and the layering that you used underneath the lanoodles topper?

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Seeking advice on latex mattress for couple with very different body weights 22 Apr 2014 16:44 #21

  • Clawdia
  • Clawdia's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 224
"Tenacity" . . . that's a nice word for it. :lol:

I'm not exactly sure what layering you're asking after, so here's all of it . . .

I have the 6" 65 density dunlop support layer, then the 55 density comfort layer. The layers are encased in a bamboo blend zippered thingee, with a CozyPure mattress protector on top. Then I have the LaNoodle topper, and a stretchy Jersey bottom sheet covering the whole bed. Then, of course, a regular fitted sheet as part of the sheet set for the bed.

With the featherbed, it doesn't seem to make any difference that I can detect whether I leave the LaNoodle topper and Jersey sheet on or remove it - bed feels the same either way with the featherbed in place.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Seeking advice on latex mattress for couple with very different body weights 22 Apr 2014 20:26 #22

  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 31974
Hi Clawdia,

I'm not exactly sure what layering you're asking after, so here's all of it . .


I just wanted to confirm all the "parts" of your sleeping system and make sure nothing had changed and that I hadn't forgotten anything so I could see if anything jumped out at me.

I didn't realize that your latex was as soft as it was. Are you sure the numbers are correct? (you can see the ILD and density for Latex Green 100% natural Dunlop here ). In looking back over your posts I thought that your comfort layer was 65 density and that your support core was 70 density.

Based on the softness of your layers and your comments here ...

I'm still having bilateral hip pain radiating downward whenever I take the feather bed topper off the dunlop mattress, even though the mattress is soft. Just went to see my doctor about the pain, who put me on a prednisone taper (which has helped the pain, although I don't know why except that it always seems to help the joint/muscle pain caused by my auto-immune disease), and had back x-rays taken although I don't yet know the results. He's a DO and not an MD, for whatever that's worth, and did say if it's the mattress causing that type of pain he thinks it would be an indication that it's too firm rather than too soft since I told him my spine was in good alignment on the mattress.


... I keep getting a nagging feeling that your support layers may be too soft overall which may be putting your hips out of alignment and it may even be worth testing your mattress with the support core on top (or turned upside down) with the Lanoodles topper on top to see if it makes a difference in your symptoms. Your support layers are certainly on the soft side. It may also be worth trying an inch or so of softer polyfoam (which would be very inexpensive) in the middle section of your mattress under the top layer just to test the "theory" that raising your hips may improve your alignment and might help with your pain.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by phoenix.

Seeking advice on latex mattress for couple with very different body weights 23 Apr 2014 08:54 #23

  • Clawdia
  • Clawdia's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 224
Oops - sorry - you're right. The support layer is listed as 70-75, and the comfort layer as 65. I sure do hate getting old and feeling stupid, but I know it beats the alternative.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Seeking advice on latex mattress for couple with very different body weights 28 Apr 2014 05:21 #24

  • Mark in Texas
  • Mark in Texas's Avatar
  • Visitor
  • Visitor

Oops - sorry - you're right. The support layer is listed as 70-75, and the comfort layer as 65. I sure do hate getting old and feeling stupid, but I know it beats the alternative.


Hi Clawdia, got the PM, responded and yes I'll be happy to share my experiences with you. Your PM is not the first of its kind either as others apparently share my bedding goals too. The LI talatech slab is due in this Wednesday. That will put me in a thick 5" comfort layer of 3" of 19ILD and 2" of 14ILD. Like I've said in other posts, the talatech not only provides excellent comfort but the support is amazing, even in the 19.

We share the same age, I'm in my mid 60's and my wife also has scoliosis. She loves the configuration.

I've asked the "do I need a cover" question a bunch and what vendors are telling me is that you don't need it, UNLESS, you've got small kids and dogs romping on the bed or indulge in active bed time activities. Makes sense to me. Even for a 14 ILD topper, my plan of putting a stretchy mattress cover and fitted sheet over it should be fine regarding wear and tear. The 19ILD is in the encasement so it's triple protected.

When it wears out years from now, I'll just give it to the aging dog and replace it. Easy peasy! Although the topper will be 14 ILD, it is a blend which is more durable than "pure" latex. With an occasional flip and rotate, I expect it to hold up quite well.

Ozone and light are enemies of latex regarding advanced aging and breakdown. I have none of those issues with my latex.

Good luck,
Mark

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Mark in Texas.

Seeking advice on latex mattress for couple with very different body weights 28 Apr 2014 12:21 #25

  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 31974
Hi Mark in Texas,

I've asked the "do I need a cover" question a bunch and what vendors are telling me is that you don't need it, UNLESS, you've got small kids and dogs romping on the bed or indulge in active bed time activities. Makes sense to me. Even for a 14 ILD topper, my plan of putting a stretchy mattress cover and fitted sheet over it should be fine regarding wear and tear.


To look at this from a more "experiential" and larger point of view ... there are many reasons (outside of just the fire regulations) that mattresses have always included a cover and while it may not be completely "necessary" from strictly a durability point of view (although it can certainly have longer term effects on this as well) ... it would certainly be "desirable" in most cases and most mattress manufacturers will confirm this (except the ones that sell DIY components) and will tell you that a good quality cover can affect the feel, the performance, and the durability of a mattress.

Ozone and light are enemies of latex regarding advanced aging and breakdown. I have none of those issues with my latex.


These and other substances that can break down latex prematurely ( see here ) aren't issues that you will experience in the short time you have had your mattress (unless you put bare layers in the sun). They are issues where you would notice a difference in years not in weeks or months.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

The Mattress UndergroundCopyright © 2022 The Mattress Underground
TheMattressUndergounf
TMU
TheMattressUndergounf