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DIY Latex Mattress Help - SUPER firm base layer 19 Jan 2014 19:11 #11

  • CKMaui
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did not bottom out on the softer base layers or any of there normal 2 layer beds :) they were all fine

ONLY with one other layer on the extra extra firm :)


Thanks guys,

I guess I'll call them and ask about exactly how these Latex International assigned numbers stack up in reference to ILDs. And good to hear they'll work with you on budget. Glad to hear you still thought the one topper on top of the one base layer was comfortable despite "bottoming out". Hopefully they instill me with some confidence that only one topper might indeed suffice!

Will update when I'm able to speak with them!

Phoenix, I bet I'll be coming close up to your 12132 comments shortly haha.

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Last edit: by CKMaui.

DIY Latex Mattress Help - SUPER firm base layer 19 Jan 2014 19:31 #12

  • Eddie Bedder
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Yeah...that's what I'm worried about. Pretty sure I cold only afford the extra extra hard base (since it's in such a big clearance sale) and one topper. But I'll talk to them and see what there is to see.

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DIY Latex Mattress Help - SUPER firm base layer 20 Jan 2014 06:54 #13

  • goldfreaz
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Eddie,
KTT had 50 lid a few weeks ago. They can slice it to any thickness and their prices are similar to Arizona Mattress. I am not sure that you want it though because you are not extra-extra heavy. :lol:

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DIY Latex Mattress Help - SUPER firm base layer 20 Jan 2014 17:19 #14

  • CKMaui
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Eddie,
KTT had 50 lid a few weeks ago. They can slice it to any thickness and their prices are similar to Arizona Mattress. I am not sure that you want it though because you are not extra-extra heavy. :lol:


slicing it thinner won't do anything to the ILD numbers from what I understand ? ratings are not about a persons weight ? they are about firmness ?

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DIY Latex Mattress Help - SUPER firm base layer 20 Jan 2014 19:03 #15

  • phoenix
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Hi CKMaui,

slicing it thinner won't do anything to the ILD numbers from what I understand ? ratings are not about a persons weight ? they are about firmness ?


That's correct. If you have a 6" core and you cut a 1", a 2" and a 3" layer out of the core they would all be rated at the ILD of the original core although they would all "feel" different because the thickness of a layer will have a significant effect on how it feels and performs compared to the same material that is thicker or thinner (see post #14 here for more about the effects of the thickness of a layer or a mattress).

The actual "feel" of a certain ILD is subjective but in general heavier people will sink in more deeply to a specific layer than a lighter person so the same material in the same thickness may feel firmer or softer to different people.

Phoenix
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DIY Latex Mattress Help - SUPER firm base layer 21 Jan 2014 11:53 #16

  • Eddie Bedder
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Thanks for everyone's input. Update is I'm somewhat back to square one...well, we'll call it square 3. Give ourselves some credit here.

So with CKMaui's input and in talking to Greg at mattresses.net (who is great, by the way) it really seems like I'd need two 2" toppers or a combination of 2" and a 3" topper together to work with my body size with such a hard base. And in having to get 2 toppers as opposed, that pretty much makes the savings on this clearance 44-50ILD base irrelevant in doubling the topper cost. Oh well.

But at least now having been able to lay down on some latex mattresses I have a better sense of what I want in a DIY latex mattress:
6" 32ILD Dunlop base
3" 28ILD Talalay
something wool/bamboo-y sans polyurethane filler in a cover
And in general hoping to be as natural as possible due to chemical sensitivies

SO.....with a topper from mattresses.net perhaps, first I have a potential dunlop base lined up via the ebay seller "latextoppers" which Phoenix has said is trustworthy in terms of having accurate listings. And indeed, they're reps have been very attentive over email in answering questions.

My question for now is on the variability of dunlop ILD ratings. As far as I can understand, dunlop doesn't really have set accepted ILD ratings that are uniform industry-wide? That as a result of the dunlop process, there is a lot more variability in the material. So what it seems is that as a result, some companies are just listing an average ILD of their dunlop, and some are listing a range. The issue is that I know I skew a little firmer than "average" when it comes to the preference side of things and what I liked I was told was 32ILD - no range. But the ebay store more in my price range offers "medium-firm (28-33ILD)" and "firm (34-38ILD)". So I'm not sure how to rationalize the range when, in skewing firm, my 32 seems to be in the middle. Should I be worried that the parts of the "medium-firm (28-33ILD)" that are 28ILD are going to feel noticeably softer and go for the firmer? Not sure of the discrepancy for one company giving a range, and one just a single number.

Wish the range had just been 30-34 for one of the options and made my choice a little easier!

For what it's worth, mattresses.net (the one that rates just a 32 with no range) I believe use LatexCo. ebay's latextoppers say this particular line is via LatexGreen (the 28-33 ranged mattress). Both are 100% natural.

I was reading somewhere on here that LatexGreen tends to be listed a tad softer than maybe "average" listings from other places? Or maybe that was just misconception because they leave the factory rated in IFD's as opposed to ILD's originally.

Aggghhh. Information snippet overload! Anyone have any thoughts on any of this? Thanks as always for how helpful everyone has been!

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DIY Latex Mattress Help - SUPER firm base layer 21 Jan 2014 13:24 #17

  • Eddie Bedder
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UPDATE: Well they MAY have solved that problem more or less. Just got an email back from ebay's latextoppers:

"...
Regardless, if you prefer to receive a 32 ILD, you may purchase either one of the two latex types and choose Medium Firm and we will request that they hand pick one for you that is closest to 32 ILD, if you want to.

We hope that this helped. Let us know if you need anything else.

Kind Regards,

- latextoppers"

Just wanted to double check...is that even something that can be done? Or just salesman allaying my concerns here? Of course if they DO is another question, but CAN that be done - hand picking those differences in ILD in the distribution center after it's already left the factory?

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DIY Latex Mattress Help - SUPER firm base layer 21 Jan 2014 19:11 #18

  • phoenix
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Hi Eddie Bedder,

My question for now is on the variability of dunlop ILD ratings. As far as I can understand, dunlop doesn't really have set accepted ILD ratings that are uniform industry-wide? That as a result of the dunlop process, there is a lot more variability in the material. So what it seems is that as a result, some companies are just listing an average ILD of their dunlop, and some are listing a range


I would add to this that some ILD ratings are just incorrect as well. You can read more about this in post #6 here . In the case of Latextoppers they will provide accurate information that comes from their suppliers and they are particulary "fussy" about making sure that the information they provide to their customers is correct and accurate to the degree possible.

For what it's worth, mattresses.net (the one that rates just a 32 with no range) I believe use LatexCo. ebay's latextoppers say this particular line is via LatexGreen (the 28-33 ranged mattress). Both are 100% natural.


Latexco is a supplier for Latex Green. You can see their ILD ranges for 100% natural Dunlop in post #2 here . Both are sourced from Latexco.

I would also keep in mind that when you are working on a DIY mattress that you haven't tested in person that your own personal experience is really the only reliable way to know whether a specific combination of layers and materials is a good "match" for you in terms of PPP because there isn't a reliable formula that can predict this with any certainty. You can read more of my thoughts about a DIY design vs buying a complete mattress where you can exchange the layers in post #15 here and the other posts it links to.

Aggghhh. Information snippet overload! Anyone have any thoughts on any of this? Thanks as always for how helpful everyone has been!


I don't think you will be able to narrow down your choices to the degree of specificity that you are looking at because there is a range of ILD's across the surface of any latex layer and even if you could most people wouldn't notice any difference with a variance of a few ILD anyway ... particularly in a base layer. The kind of specificity you are looking at is subject to the law of diminishing returns and probably wouldn't make as much difference as you may believe or as much as some of the other variables that are involved.

Just wanted to double check...is that even something that can be done? Or just salesman allaying my concerns here? Of course if they DO is another question, but CAN that be done - hand picking those differences in ILD in the distribution center after it's already left the factory?


In the case of Talalay .... ILD is tested in multiple places across the surface and if the supplier is willing to go through their cores and choose the one which has an average ILD that is closest to the specific ILD that you are requesting (or if the merchant keeps stock on hand and can do this with any of their layers that still have the original label from the 6" core attached) then they could. With Dunlop it can be more difficult because the variance is more than with Talalay and ILD's aren't as listed as specifically. I do know that latextoppers will do whatever they can or make special requests when their supplier makes it possible but once again all of this "fine detail" probably isn't nearly as important or critical as you may believe it is.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

DIY Latex Mattress Help - SUPER firm base layer 21 Jan 2014 20:26 #19

Hi Eddie Bedder,

Phoenix has great advice, and I'd try to not get too caught up in the specs. I've done more DIY than most people have the heart for, and among other things I've encountered...

1. Whatever you imagine will be amazing, is a total crap shoot if it is that amazing when you feel it. That's true even when you own all the materials, and have some experience - there were things I was positive would be perfect, having tried something near identical, only to find it wasn't perfect at all.

2. Whatever you think is stupid, might actually feel amazing. Try putting a softer layer under firmer, for instance. I generally like it, and at least one of my mattresses has that design. Thick (2" to 3") of wool over soft talalay is also something I'd never have thought I'd liked and would have guessed it'd totally screw up alignment, but personally I think it's amazing, and it actually firmed up a bit in my experience.

3. Specs in the industry are funny in how non scientific they are. About the only thing that is true is that given a specific vendor, using a particular style of their product (as latex comes in different styles, using different blends, different zoning, different thicknesses, different patterns, etc), then firm will usually be firmer than medium, which will usually be firmer than soft. Remember, you're not building a mechanical item here where tolerances are important, and the bedding industry seems to know that. It functions a bit more on the feeling aspect 'does it feel good? Or do you need it a bit softer or a bit firmer?' Even semi close is usually good enough. (Talalay is a bit more consistent it seems).

- the really good designs seem to be simple, but may have subtle things done to give it that secretly amazing feel. Subtle zoning in particular is something that's really hard to predict, and I suspect is used by a lot of the Dunlop brands. Certainly, my green sleep has it.

4. The mattress case / ticking will impact the feel as much as the specs. Maybe more. Good ticking is expensive.

5. No amount of theory at a distance worked for me (except for generalities, like I want a firmer base and softer top).

6. Only buying materials and trying them told me anything useful.

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Last edit: by dn.
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