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Latex mattress disappointment - next step 29 Oct 2013 12:13 #1

  • Diane37
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I have a new natural talalay latex mattress form Foam Sweet Foam... well made, nice cover, good service. I bought a soft, med. firm (N2, N3, N4) 3" 3 layers and made an exchange. I sent the soft N2 back for xfirm N5 bottom layer. Now I have N3, N4, N5 or med., firm, xfirm. The original soft top layer setup caused pain in my hips and legs, seemed to sink in too much at the hips, so I thought "Too soft". I am 5'5" and 125 lbs. (smaller waist, heavier top and hips) . So I made my exchange for what I thought would be the next step up in firmness. Well, this is too firm for my hips and upper body. My alignment looks like the illustrations of a too firm mattress and I have a sore back, hips, and legs. I never had anything like this before and I've always had very firm mattresses. I have experimented with the cover- on and off, unzipped, pads, I have a wool fleece topper (Snugfleece Elite), nothing is right. I believe it is my alignment as well as comfort layer.

I've noticed from reading so many posts that women of lighter weights seem to have trouble with latex configurations. Has anybody else noticed this? To me, talalay is so springy and even at fairly low ilds it feels hard.

I want my next move/purchase to be my last. I'm very weary of spending so much money and having such an uncomfortable mattress. I really do not want more latex/foam. I have no confidence that it would help to add more springiness. Could this type of topper help? www.amazon.com/Extra-Plush-Mattress-Pad-Marriott/dp/B00F655P36/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Any advice or suggestions would be much appreciated. Not sure if I can last another week on this mattress.

Thanks,

Diane

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Latex mattress disappointment - next step 29 Oct 2013 14:34 #2

  • phoenix
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Hi Diane37,

I've noticed from reading so many posts that women of lighter weights seem to have trouble with latex configurations. Has anybody else noticed this? To me, talalay is so springy and even at fairly low ilds it feels hard.


I think that the difficulty of lighter weight women that have a more "curvy" body profile is more common with any mattress design ... not just latex ... because their needs and preferences are often different from the norm or "averages" particularly if they are side sleepers. Most manufacturers are reluctant to use the softest latex in their mattress (N1 in the case of 100% natural Talalay from Latex international) because for average or higher weights they would be less durable but for lighter more curvy body types they can be very useful. You are somewhat unusual in that you also seem to be looking for firmer rather than softer. It's also possible you made a layer change in the wrong "direction". Latex is very supportive in any softness level but it also responds differently from other types of foam so using other materials as a reference point can often be misleading. One of the strengths of latex is that even softer ILD's are still more supportive than polyfoam.

I want my next move/purchase to be my last. I'm very weary of spending so much money and having such an uncomfortable mattress. I really do not want more latex/foam. I have no confidence that it would help to add more springiness. Could this type of topper help? www.amazon.com/Extra-Plush-Mattress-Pad-...cm_cr_pr_product_top


The first step in making any adjustments to your mattress is to identify the underlying cause of your symptoms and whether they are alignment related or pressure related. This can sometimes be difficult because the underlying causes for various symptoms can be very complex and just like symptoms that are connected to medical issues can have many causes that can't be known with any certainty based on "theory at a distance" except through a more detailed analysis and sometimes through trial and error.

Post #2 here and the other posts it links to has more about the more common causes of various symptoms that may give you some insights into what is happening and the types of changes that may be helpful.

I want my next move/purchase to be my last. I'm very weary of spending so much money and having such an uncomfortable mattress. I really do not want more latex/foam. I have no confidence that it would help to add more springiness. Could this type of topper help? www.amazon.com/Extra-Plush-Mattress-Pad-...cm_cr_pr_product_top


The only way to know would be to try it. It appears to use some type of synthetic fiber which has the "feel" of down so it may provide some relief under specific pressure points but it wouldn't have the resilience of a foam material so it wouldn't likely solve support or alignment issues which would be more connected with the foam layering in your mattress.

The original soft top layer setup caused pain in my hips and legs, seemed to sink in too much at the hips, so I thought "Too soft". I am 5'5" and 125 lbs. (smaller waist, heavier top and hips) .


My guess is that you may have needed a softer comfort layer rather than a firmer one. How far it "feels" like you are sinking in can be deceptive when you are used to other materials (latex is very point elastic) and your symptoms may have been more from pressure than from alignment or how far your hips were sinking in. If you were sinking in too far then you also can move the firmer layers on the bottom closer to the top to improve support and alignment and this is often worth testing to see if it appears to improve things.

It would require much more detailed specifics about your experience on each combination and most importantly how each one compares relative to each other in each sleeping position (how each symptom changes in worse or better terms relative to the last combination rather than only whether it works or not) to make more meaningful comments or suggestions you could try but based on your feedback I would have been tempted to choose a softer comfort layer after first re-arranging the lower layers to provide firmer support so that you could rule that out as a possible cause.

It would also be useful to know what type of mattress protector or mattress pad you are using because sometimes this can also affect how the foam layers contour to your body. It may also be worthwhile unzipping the top of the cover and removing it or folding it back to see if sleeping directly on the latex itself (with only a thin protector and sheets) makes a difference.

In most cases ... the first combination based on "averages" works well for most people but if you are in the minority that needs to do make more changes or do more fine tuning then a slow step by step and incremental approach that "learns" from the differences in each combination and what it seems to point to is usually the most effective approach.

Phoenix
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Latex mattress disappointment - next step 29 Oct 2013 16:07 #3

  • Diane37
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yes, my layer exchange was made too quickly... my husband had to have surgery so my 30 day layer exchange was crunched. My initial reaction to leg and hip pain was because it felt like my hips were sinking. Never really felt that before with a mattress. Now I can see that the N2 top layer may have been still too firm and a softer layer would let the rest of my body sink also and have better alignment. My husband, 150 lbs. is a back and stomach sleeper with back issues so I was cautious of going too soft for his sake. Also, I've read so much about staying on the firm side because it's harder to make a soft mattress more firm. We have always had extra firm mattresses and never pain from sleeping. Since I purchased full layers, not split, I am trying to suit both of us. He has had no issues with this new mattress, the layer exchange, and all the experiments that I've done with it. I think he is tired of all of this though. I am a side sleeper, no back or stomach at all, so now I realize that I probably need a softer comfort layer.

As far as my experimentations go, nothing really felt great. I have a St. Dormier protector that I tried directly on the latex, next a mattress pad, (polyester and cotton not very thick) then a 2.5 inch wool fleece topper. This was the best configuration. With the F.S.F cover (quilted organic cotton and wool) on and zipped, it is really stiff and firm for me. Unzipped did not really help much. I might try just the St. Dormier directly over latex with just a sheet on top.

If you are correct about my need for a softer comfort layer, what would you suggest? Do you think a 1.5" 17 - 20 ILD Puralux topper would be enough to affect my alignment? Would this be too soft for my stomach sleeping husband? Looking at this one:

www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-MADE-USA-ECO-FRIENDLY-PURALUX-LATEX-MATTRESS-TOPPER-1-5-PAD-/110947874392?pt=US_Mattress_Pads_and_Feather_Beds&var=&hash=item5f804960d0

Foam Sweet Foam does recommend Med. over firm over xfirm for their natural talalay for most people, so I thought I had gone too soft with soft, med. firm.. I guess if I have to, I can buy an N1, cut my N3 in half and replace it on my side with the N1. It is so difficult to know what to do at this point. I can't really live with this mattress as is.

Thanks,

Diane

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Latex mattress disappointment - next step 29 Oct 2013 17:42 #4

  • brotherloo
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Greetings Diane37,

The topper you linked to is listed as 4.3 lbs/cu.ft.(70 kg/cu.m). I have a 70k Puralux topper and I would consider it firmer than an N2. I also have a 55K, 18ILD Puralux topper and it is much softer than an N2. Especially on the lighter parts of your body, like your ankles, knees and forearms/hands. I also think Puralux feels less springy than talalay. I got mine from ebay seller hahtauctions.

If you are trying to go softer than N2, just thought you could use a heads up.

brotherloo

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Latex mattress disappointment - next step 30 Oct 2013 05:38 #5

  • Diane37
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Thanks so much brotherloo. I was hoping that someone had experience with Puralux. How can you tell the density of these toppers on ebay? Do you ask the seller? Is this the soft 55K 18 ILD topper that you purchased?

www.ebay.com/itm/LATEX-MATTRESS-TOPPER-Cushion-2-Thick-QUEEN-SIZE/200622007364?rt=nc

What is your mattress configuration if you don't mind me asking? Do you sleep directly on top of the 18 ILD Puralux topper and is it comfortable for you?

I know, too many questions... I really appreciate the heads up that you gave me.

Diane

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Latex mattress disappointment - next step 30 Oct 2013 17:02 #6

  • brotherloo
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Greetings Diane37,

Yes, that is the topper I got, although a 1 inch king size. I didn't know the density until it arrived. It was listed on the packaging label 55K. I just ordered it as 18 ILD. Later I ordered a 24 ILD 1 inch king topper, and its packaging listed it as 70K. I ordered the 18 hoping it was softer than an N2 and it was. I ordered the 24 hoping it was between an N2 and an N3 and it was. I had always figured an N2 as ~22 ILD and an N3 as ~27 ILD, so it seems his ILDs for Puralux correspond well with LI's 100% natural talalay.

The N2, N3, and N4 that I have show no ILD. Just densities of 4.0, 4.5, and 4.9. The Puralux works out to 3.4 and 4.3. So the densities correspond to the LI numbers pretty well too.

I have a 10" thin knit cotton, quilted to compressed wool cover.
2 - 1" 18 ILD Puralux
3" N2(head to waist) / N3(waist to foot)
3" N3 / N4
1" of 18/50 polyfoam

The 2" of 18 Puralux is inside the cover. It is the top layer and it replaced the 3" N2 I had originally (ergo, the 1" stiff polyfoam on the bottom). I like it much better than the N2. The biggest difference is it lets my lower arm(side sleeping) my thighs,knees and feet sink in a little more. Feels more plush.

Hope this helps,

brotherloo

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Latex mattress disappointment - next step 30 Oct 2013 18:50 #7

  • Diane37
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Thanks for your reply brotherloo. I spoke to Karl, of hahtauctions (ebay store) and he thought that 2 inches of 18 or 24, which he can get, would be a good choice for a topper for me. This would be the lesser of the two densities of Puralux. He said that it is 20% natural latex and 80% synthetic. Also, I asked if this Puralux has a smell because I'm fairly sensitive. He said yes it does, because the holes are drilled out and small particles are left in the holes. These particles cause a strong odor that will dissipate over time and are best if kept in the mattress cover. What has your experience been in regards to the smell of Puralux? The talalay doesn't bother me at all, but I am a little scared after what I heard today.

I am leaning towards this in a 2" layer of 18 ILD. I wish it had a cover though. If I add 2" then my total latex count would be 11" and I don't think they make covers for that thickness. I'm also going to look at Rejuvenite slow response and fast as well as a 14 ild talalay 2" topper. Your mattress configuration is interesting. I hope I will make a good choice and end up with a comfortable mattress. Thanks for your help.

Diane

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Latex mattress disappointment - next step 31 Oct 2013 08:27 #8

  • brotherloo
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I didn't have any issue with the smell of the puralux. Maybe right out of the package it might have been strong, I didn't pay that much attention to any difference. Inside the cover I don't notice any odor.

I don't have any experience with softer talalay than N2. I was looking for something a little more "cushy" than my N2, and the soft puralux was the least expensive option I could find for "research" purposes. I don't know if there is a difference in feel between talalay and puralux in the same ILDs, but I'll leave that "research" up to you.

Good Luck,

brotherloo

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Latex mattress disappointment - next step 31 Oct 2013 12:17 #9

  • Diane37
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