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Latex: Nature's Sleep in Canada? 12 Aug 2013 09:37 #1

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WARNING ADDED BY ADMIN: See the rest of this thread and post #39 here before making any purchase from Naturessleep.ca !


So I've been searching for a Latex bed. I found a local supplier that uses Latex International latex and I know that's good. The price was a bit shocking, and I always comparison shop as best I can, so I started searching.

I came across a Canadian online store called NaturalBedding.ca with significantly (but not crazy) lower prices. They don't give the info on their site so I called them to ask what ILD layers were in their beds and where their latex came from. I was hoping it would be Latex International so it would be easy... but it wasn't.

They say they get their latex from Naturessleep.ca. I don't think its the same as Nature's Sleep in the USA (different logo anyway). Sadly, I see that naturessleep.ca has the exact same phone number as naturalbedding.ca, so sending me to a "different company" when its the same company was a bit annoying. So I called the 2nd number and, of course, got the exact same guy lol.

Anyway, he was difficult to understand (his phone kept cutting out) but I gathered that I could get the layers to any ILD I specified, which is good, and the latex comes from India, Indonesia, or Malaysia. He *claims* that's a good thing... stating that the only way to get a true "natural" product, requires processing the milk at the source before preservatives are added for shipping. He tells me that Latex International, as a specific example, gets their milk from the same types of places but with preservatives and then processes it in the USA. He states that as long as they carry certifications, its all the same to the end user. He also says Latex International *also* imports processed cores as well as milk, so not all their products are "Mad in the USA". True? I suspect you'll tell me no, and that I'm better off with the made-in-USA Latex International product, but I figured I'd ask anyway.

It would save me about $750. Not a trivial amount by any means, but also not enough savings to end up with an inferior product.

Meanwhile I've emailed them and asked for copies of the "five certifications" he mentioned on the phone. I'll post if/when I get them.

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Last edit: by phoenix.

Latex: Nature's Sleep in Canada? 12 Aug 2013 18:10 #2

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WARNING ADDED BY ADMIN: See the rest of this thread and post #39 here before making any purchase from Naturessleep.ca !


Hi bcsteeve,

First of all I want to say thanks for bringing them to my attention.

They are new (Natural Bedding was registered in Dec of last year and Natures Sleep in April of this year) and I I wasn't aware of them before you post and hadn't talked with them so I knew nothing about them or who is behind them other than what is on their site. So I called them and talked with George (one of the two partners) for several hours. I have to say I was impressed with their knowledge, their background, and their approach to business. They are doing the right things in the right way and making their customer's satisfaction their first priority.

Nature's Sleep is the main distributor and they have a series of independent merchants that sell their mattresses but all the numbers go to them in the same office so they can make sure that they provide accurate information to their customers and then the "credit" for the sale goes to the distributor that originated the call.

They use both 100% natural Dunlop and 100% natural Talalay in their mattresses depending on the design and they are open and transparent about what is in each of their mattresses.

Their pricing is also very aggressive in an apples to apples comparison with many mattresses that are available in Canada. They have a showroom that customers in Mississauga can test their mattresses (with an appointment first) but also sell online across the country and sell component mattresses with zip covers and offer a layer exchange if any fine tuning is needed after a purchase.

They are also very knowledgeable about mattress design and fitting a mattress to each customer and were well aware of the many considerations that can help their customers make the most suitable choice. They put their customer's satisfaction above their own profit and clearly are in the business to make a difference and help people understand the benefits of sleeping on latex.

Overall they are a very good option for those in Canada and I'm grateful that you mentioned them and provided the impetus to have a longer conversation with them.

I also had the same issue with his phone which made the conversation difficult and it's becaue he spends so much time on the phone that he doesn't want his bluetooth or cell phone that close to his ears for than length of time. I mentioned to him that both of us had the same issue.

He also says Latex International *also* imports processed cores as well as milk, so not all their products are "Mad in the USA". True? I suspect you'll tell me no, and that I'm better off with the made-in-USA Latex International product, but I figured I'd ask anyway.


As far as I'm aware Latex Interational makes all it's cores in the US but he is correct about the quality of the latex and the certifications. There are only two Talalay latex manufacturers in the western world (Latex International and Radium) and both of them make very high quality Talalay latex in blended and 100% natural versions. I would also put Based on my conversations with many manufactures that could order both ... their preferrence would lean towards Radium because over the last few years the quality control has been better although Latex International has told me that they are aware of the issues and are committed to correcting them (and there is some good evidence that they are heading in the right direction). Their Dunlop is also a very high quality 100% natural latex and has all the certifications I would consider important.

Overall I was very impressed and I appreciate you bringing them to my attention :)

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Latex: Nature's Sleep in Canada? 12 Aug 2013 19:43 #3

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I'm glad to have brought a new resource to your attention Phoenix! Yay, I feel like I contributed :)

So I shouldn't have too much concern when they say their cores come from India, Indonesia, and Malaysia (one of those may have been Sri Lanka now that I think about it)? And you would say that their product is "apples to apples" with what my local supplier offers (seems identical except it is Latex International)? If so, then I'll happily save the $700 to $800 (and that accounts for shipping AND they throw in two pillows). I would, however, have to find a foundation as it doesn't look like they supply those.

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Latex: Nature's Sleep in Canada? 13 Aug 2013 00:09 #4

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WARNING ADDED BY ADMIN: See the rest of this thread and post #39 here before making any purchase from Nature's Sleep!


Hi bcsteeve,

So I shouldn't have too much concern when they say their cores come from India, Indonesia, and Malaysia (one of those may have been Sri Lanka now that I think about it)? And you would say that their product is "apples to apples" with what my local supplier offers (seems identical except it is Latex International)? If so, then I'll happily save the $700 to $800 (and that accounts for shipping AND they throw in two pillows). I would, however, have to find a foundation as it doesn't look like they supply those.


I didn't ask them specifically where their Dunlop came from but I would suspect it's from Sri Lanka. It would be good and equivalent quality regardless and 100% natural Dunlop is closely equivalent between good manufacturers. The same would hold true for Talalay regardless of which of the two manufacturers they were using. In other words it would be the same or equivalent to other latex that was the same type and blend yes.

As I mentioned they are very aggressive in their pricing and run low margins. When I talked with George he made it clear that this was more of a passion (to have more people sleep on a good latex mattress) than a necessity for him to do and he wants to make some "dents" in the industry in Canada. He told me that there are some people in Toronto who think he's "crazy" to do what he's doing and I told him that that kind of "crazy" was a good thing!

You can see some good sources for foundations in the foundation thread here and I'm fairly confident that some of them would ship to Canada (although I haven't looked specifically) and there may also be similar foundations available from Canadian sources.

If you have good confidence that your choice would be suitable for you (after a more detailed conversation and they certainly know the questions to ask you) then they would make a great choice and you also have the backup of a layer exchange as well if that becomes necessary which can reduce the risk of making a less than ideal choice.

Thanks again for making me aware of them ... and you certainly have contributed to the knowledge base of the forum :)

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Latex: Nature's Sleep in Canada? 21 Aug 2013 08:05 #5

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back from a trip out of town, and my mattress searching continues.

I hate getting (seemingly) conflicting information :) I'm wanting to compare like-to-like, so I've been careful when talking to retailers that I'm looking for a Talalay mattress of certain spec (3 layers, 2" + 3" + 5" of specific ILD). Why? Because that's exactly what I got to lay on in a local store. So I know I said "Talalay" to George when he responded saying it came from overseas. From what I'm reading here, that conflicts with 'only two sources' (Latex International and Radium). Also, I never got a response to my email regarding the "certifications".

I called him back this morning and asked about this, and his response now is that he thought I was talking about Dunlop. Maybe. He seemed to dodge my certification question, saying the only one I should care about is the ECO institute (which I think applies only to Dunlop?) and to forget about "nonsense" like CertaPUR. There may be truth to that, but it sure does make it difficult to compare things.

I got a better understanding of George's business though, I think. He's been in the bedding industry since the 80's, but not latex until more recently when he saw (I'm paraphrasing) "ridiculous margins" at the retail level. He seems genuine when he says "everyone deserves to sleep on latex", but I can't help getting a bit of a shady feeling about this guy. Still, you talked to him a lot longer and have way more knowledge in this arena (obviously). He runs the naturalsleep.ca website at a retail level, and naturessleep.ca at a manufacturer level. At least, he calls himself a "manufacturer"... but that again confuses me, because certainly he doesn't make the latex. To me, the "manufacturer" would be the factory in [wherever] that turns the latex milk into a hunk of foam, no?

Also, his (retail) website changed since I looked at it last week. They had 10" product last week... now the same item shows 9" (same price). He says he changed it because 10" costs too much to ship. But he said he'd honor what we discussed.

Something he said on the phone seemed to imply that he supplies the latex product to "most" of the retailers in Canada. If I went entirely on appearance, I'd tend to believe that... the cover on his website pictures is IDENTICAL to the one in the local store (diagonal "Organic Cotton" imprinted). But the local guy's product (supposedly) is Latex International and it is laminated, while George's is from [well, I'm unclear on that] and its non-laminated.


Anyway, I still have some deciding to do.

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Latex: Nature's Sleep in Canada? 21 Aug 2013 14:49 #6

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Hi bcsteeve,

Assessing how you feel about each manufacturer or retailer you deal with is one of the intangibles that are part of each person's personal value equation and it can be just as important as any of your other criteria.

Their Dunlop is sourced here but I didn't ask about their Talalay. If it was Radium Talalay it would be from overseas (they are based in Holland). You can see the certifications on each site for Latex International here and Radium here and Latex Global here (click quality and certifications)

CertiPur certification is for polyfoam and memory foam so it's not really relevant when it comes to latex.

At least, he calls himself a "manufacturer"... but that again confuses me, because certainly he doesn't make the latex. To me, the "manufacturer" would be the factory in [wherever] that turns the latex milk into a hunk of foam, no?


A mattress manufacturer is the one that manufactures the mattress not the specific materials that are used inside it. A latex, polyfoam, memory foam, innerspring, etc manufacturer is the one that produces the materials that mattress manufacturers use inside their mattresses. It would be very uncommon that a mattress manufacturer actually makes the materials they use in their mattresses.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Latex: Nature's Sleep in Canada? 24 Aug 2013 23:40 #7

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Hi
I live in a small town in Ontario,Canada
i have been researching online for latex mattresses & where I can test out & purchase
There are very few retailers that sell natural latex
Mostly the specialty organic shops

I also had the privilege of speaking to George. Really nice guy
But I also feel he is a bit misleading
i looked into some things further & believe him to have some other businesses that may be misleading as well
(including an additional mattress online supplier but not for just latex)

The prices are extremely low for the product
I just want people to be careful

My plan is to take a trip to Toronto and test drive some beds from
Soma and Dormio that sell different manufacturers
Maybe essentia because I want to know what a 4000$ mattress feels like

Thank you for this site!!! It has helped me a lot this past few weeks

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Latex: Nature's Sleep in Canada? 25 Aug 2013 06:00 #8

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Hi Sherren,

I also had the privilege of speaking to George. Really nice guy
But I also feel he is a bit misleading
i looked into some things further & believe him to have some other businesses that may be misleading as well
(including an additional mattress online supplier but not for just latex)

The prices are extremely low for the product
I just want people to be careful


If you have some specific knowledge about any misleading information or practices it would be helpful if you could post it in the forum. It's sometimes to easy to post "suspicions" on a forum which in turn becomes a part of a manufacturer's or retailers online reputation when it may not be deserved. This is even sometimes used by competitors to cast a "seed of doubt" about their competitors so it's always a good idea to be very careful what you post so that it is more than just suspicions.

Having said that ... I did a little further research and I agree some caution is warranted ... particularly when it comes to their connections with one of the companies listed below which is NasaFoam. A google search will bring up more information and feedback along with some very dissatisfied customers and there is a forum thread about them as well.

In looking online there are several businesses that are either now or recently connected to the same address or phone numbers listed on several of their sites ...

1-800-405-2105
1-905-286-9777
1-416-805-0485

2900 Argentia Rd. Unit #5, Mississauga

Which include ...

www.businessinvestorgroup.com/#!contact-us/c1d94
www.manta.com/ic/mtqg8rl/ca/supra-canada-technologies-ltd
www.alphabiomedical.ca/
www.sonno.ca/
www.nasafoam.ca/
naturalbedding.ca/
www.naturessleep.ca/
www.maverickwholesale.ca/
www.manta.com/ic/mxbdj63/ca/diablo-jeans-co-inc

Some others that include the address on their webpage or have a connection with the same address include ...

atomic.devanorth.com/offices.page.29.html
www.supraits.com/
old.miditech.com/contact.html
fleetgain.com/contact.page.5.html
pbas.yourhostnetwork.com/hspc/about_us.php
siteinmotion.com/

Of course I don't know what all the connections are here and some of these appear to be some rather large international companies but it's certainly curious.

When I talked with him he was clearly knowledgeable about mattresses and mattress designs but I would like to resolve some of the questions that these connections have brought up.

My plan is to take a trip to Toronto and test drive some beds from
Soma and Dormio that sell different manufacturers


Both of these carry some high quality mattresses and would be worth the trip although they are not in a low budget range.

Maybe essentia because I want to know what a 4000$ mattress feels like


They are really only $4000 in price and not in value. they are another manufacturer that has some real questions surrounding their claims and you can read a bit more about them in this thread and in this thread and in post #3 and #4 here .

Thanks again for bringing your caution to my attention and if you have more specific information to add it would be welcome.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Latex: Nature's Sleep in Canada? 25 Aug 2013 06:28 #9

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Hi thank you for expanding :)
I was cautious about posting any specifics as I had only looked around online myself
I also didn't want to label or be unfair to anyone. So sorry it seemed that way

One of the reasons I did was because he said his name was Dave when he picked up the phone
I tend to write things down when on the phone so I double checked
Another thing was I live right near where he said the factory was & said I couldn't even go see the location
Which is maybe usual but just added to the strangeness for me

My research also showed the nasabed which would be fine
only he was really trying to convince me that he would never offer another product but natural latex
And couldn't understand why ant manufacturer would add "cheap materials" to mattresses

Were some other things but its not really Important ijust wanted people to be careful.

I will skip essentia when I go I case my husband loves the beds there

I didn't think there was anywhere else for me to try mattresses in Ontario than what I mentioned
Thought if I knew what I liked I could shop better online from one of the reliable sources
What do you think?

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Latex: Nature's Sleep in Canada? 25 Aug 2013 06:39 #10

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Hi Sherren,

I also didn't want to label or be unfair to anyone. So sorry it seemed that way


I don't think you were being unfair at all and I welcome your caution. I mentioned what I did to make clear that I didn't think your post was in the "unfair" category and to encourage others to be as careful as you were.

I didn't think there was anywhere else for me to try mattresses in Ontario than what I mentioned
Thought if I knew what I liked I could shop better online from one of the reliable sources
What do you think?


If you let me know your city or zip code I'd be happy to let you know of the closest options I'm aware of where you can test latex mattresses.

Phoenix
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