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Latex mattress -- do we need a modification? Advice needed 26 Aug 2013 17:27 #11

  • Pspa123
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Yes sorry if I misspoke, I think of it as a topper but it actually is all zipped up within a single cover so if the term comfort layer is more accurate so be it. The cover, at least when I assembled it, was extremely tight. It was an inch by inch struggle to get it to close. Now the manufacturer said it would loosen up over time, but perhaps it hasn't loosened so much and that is a factor?

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Latex mattress -- do we need a modification? Advice needed 26 Aug 2013 19:07 #12

  • phoenix
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Hi pspa,

Thanks for clarifying because having the 3" layer inside the cover can certainly make a significant difference vs having it as a separate topper.

The first thing I would do (after eliminating the possibility that your mattress protector or other bedding is part of the issue) would be to sleep on the mattress first with the cover unzipped but still over the latex for a few days and then if necessary sleeping directly on the latex itself with just a protector over the latex and the cover off the latex for a few days. This would help clarify the effect of the cover itself.

Most zip covers over latex are designed to fit very tightly because they will stretch somewhat over time and become looser.

Phoenix
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Latex mattress -- do we need a modification? Advice needed 27 Aug 2013 05:27 #13

  • Diane37
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I am considering a purchase from Arizona Mattress also and have a concern about mattress covers. It seems like most of their mattresses are made up of a 6 inch core and a 2 inch comfort layer. I believe that recently, they added an option for a 3 inch comfort layer instead of the 2 inch. Do they use the same mattress cover when you order the 3 inch top layer? It seems like I have read on this forum that some have had an issue with the tightness of the mattress cover from this company. Could this be a possibility? One additional inch could make it a tight fit if it is squeezed into the wrong size case and this could affect the feeling of the mattress.

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Latex mattress -- do we need a modification? Advice needed 27 Aug 2013 12:17 #14

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Hi diane37,

I believe that recently, they added an option for a 3 inch comfort layer instead of the 2 inch.


They have actually had this option for years. They are a manufacturer so they can make custom builds and not everything they can supply is on their website.

Do they use the same mattress cover when you order the 3 inch top layer?


These kinds of questions are probably better asked directly of them so that the answer comes directly from the manufacturer but if you look at the page for replacement mattress covers here you will see they come in 6, 8, 9, and 10" versions.

It seems like I have read on this forum that some have had an issue with the tightness of the mattress cover from this company.


All zip mattress covers are designed to fit very tightly around the latex so that it doesn't become loose when the cover stretches. Almost everyone that buys a component layer mattress is surprised when they are putting the mattress together that the cover actually fits because at first it looks like it won't.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Latex mattress -- do we need a modification? Advice needed 06 Oct 2013 15:13 #15

  • Pspa123
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So I am back for one last question here as I STILL have not decided what to do. Another company, a forum member, suggested that rather than replace my current 24 ILD soft layer with a medium and use the soft as a topper, I should instead just add a softer 3 inch 19 ILD blended talalay topper to the current configuration. He didn't think the other solution would change the feel very much if at all. I expressed concern that at 6' and 225-230 (my wife is also a tad on the heavy side) we would just sink through this layer, but he assured me this was not the case at all. I do note that this company seems to use different nomenclature for comfort levels -- they consider 24 ILD medium while others call it soft. In any event, I would be interested in another opinion, and thank you.

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Latex mattress -- do we need a modification? Advice needed 06 Oct 2013 16:07 #16

  • phoenix
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Hi Pspa123,

So I am back for one last question here as I STILL have not decided what to do. Another company, a forum member, suggested that rather than replace my current 24 ILD soft layer with a medium and use the soft as a topper, I should instead just add a softer 3 inch 19 ILD blended talalay topper to the current configuration. He didn't think the other solution would change the feel very much if at all. I expressed concern that at 6' and 225-230 (my wife is also a tad on the heavy side) we would just sink through this layer, but he assured me this was not the case at all. I do note that this company seems to use different nomenclature for comfort levels -- they consider 24 ILD medium while others call it soft. In any event, I would be interested in another opinion, and thank you.


Welcome to the world of contradictory opinions that can often happen even with "experts" (see post #8 here ) :)

Mattress design and theory is as much an art as it is a science and concepts such as softness and firmness and the "feel" of a mattress are very subjective and vary widely between different people. The effect of different constructions and fine tuning a mattress will also depend on where you are inside the "princess and the pea" and "I can sleep on anything" range. Some people will notice a significant effect with very small changes and others don't seem to notice much difference at all between very different mattresses. In the end ... there are so many unknowns and variables that only your own personal experience will tell you whether a specific suggestion or combination works well for you.

In most cases a knowledgeable and experienced manufacturer that makes a mattress would have the most detailed knowledge of all the materials and components in the mattresses they manufacture and the type of changes that have worked will for their customers that are in similar circumstances to you. If I understand you correctly your comfort layer is 21 ILD which would be in the soft range for Talalay latex (you can see the Latex International terminology for their blended Talalay latex here ). Of course whether a specific layer "feels" soft or firm or anything in between depends on the body type, sleeping positions, and sensitivities of each person and on how all the specific components and layers of the mattress interact together.

With thicker or softer materials you will sink in more (not through) softer layers and this is particularly true with the heavier parts of the body (such as the pelvis). The goal though is always how evenly you sink in ... not how much. There is more about this in post #6 here . If you sink down more with one part of the body relative to the others then you could be out of alignment which is the "risk" of having softer thicker layers in the top layers of the mattress which will separate you more from the firmer support layers below them. They can "allow" the heavier parts to sink down more than the lighter parts but this also depends on the surface area of each part. For example with side sleeping the shoulders are lighter than the hips but they also have a smaller surface area so the weight is more concentrated over a smaller area until they sink in enough for the upper torso to reach the mattress surface at which point the surface area becomes much larger and further sinking in would be "stopped".

I should also mention that the difference between 21 and 19 ILD is below the limit of detection for most people if the type of latex is the same. With Dunlop then 24 would be more likely to have a "medium" feel for most people because it gets firmer faster with deeper compression than Talalay and the top layers are generally compressed more than the 25% compression where ILD is measured.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Latex mattress -- do we need a modification? Advice needed 06 Oct 2013 19:01 #17

  • Pspa123
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My current comfort layer is 22-24 I was told, if that matters. And it's inside a cover that was incredibly tight so it would not surprise me if it was not still being somewhat compressed.

So the proposed latest configuration would be Dunlop firm/medium core, 3 in talaly 24, 3 blended talalay 19. I didn't ask about getting only 2 inches of the talalay 19, maybe that would be a compromise between added softness and not putting too much distance between the top latyers and the support core? Or would that not be thick enough considering our weights? It's all so confusing.

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Last edit: by Pspa123.

Latex mattress -- do we need a modification? Advice needed 06 Oct 2013 22:25 #18

  • phoenix
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Hi Pspa123,

Have you tried some of the suggestions in the other replies I've mentioned ... and what was the outcome? I checked back through your previous posts and couldn't find any feedback about the results.

What did Arizona Premium suggest?

If you are considering adding a topper did you read the topper guidelines in post #8 here (that talks about thickness and ILD)?

Is your wife still uncomfortable with adding more latex?

I'm not sure what else to suggest that hasn't already been mentioned. Thinner toppers will have less risk of alignment issues but will have less effect on pressure relief. Changing the support core will give you the chance to adjust the firmness of each side separately but it will have less effect than changing the comfort layers (the upper layers are what you feel more) but only she can decide if it's "enough" for her. The advantage of this is that it wouldn't affect your side of the mattress (which seems to be working well for you) and you wouldn't be adding more latex to the mattress (which you mentioned your wife doesn't want to do). If this wasn't enough then you would still have the option of adding a topper available to you. In the end only your own personal experience (or you wife's) can know with any certainty whether a specific combination will work well for you regardless of any "theory".

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Latex mattress -- do we need a modification? Advice needed 07 Oct 2013 05:27 #19

  • Pspa123
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Thanks. I did try unzipping the cover but that isn't the issue. I think the issue may be what you said in your very first response -- she needs a little more thickness to isolate her from the core, so that she can sink in more, does that still make sense? So maybe just go with a 2 inch topper with a similar ILD as the current comfort layer, which is somewhere between 21 and 24 I am not quite sure now? After reading your other post it seems notwithstanding what was told to me 19 may be just TOO soft to hold up?

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Last edit: by Pspa123.

Latex mattress -- do we need a modification? Advice needed 07 Oct 2013 10:43 #20

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Hi Pspa123,

Thanks. I did try unzipping the cover but that isn't the issue


It would still be helpful to know the specific differences that it made. When you are looking to fine tune a mattress every change can sometimes provide a useful clue.

What type of mattress protector are you using?

Latex is the most durable of all the foam types even in 19 ILD but softer foams are less durable than firmer foams no matter what type they are. If your wife would do best with 19 ILD then I wouldn't hesitate to use it and you can also flip the topper over and alternate sides which would also extend the durability further and in addition to this a topper is easy to replace if it's needed without having to replace the entire mattress (all mattresses will tend to soften and break down from the top down). The only issue to consider is that adding another 2" of soft latex would change your side of the mattress as well.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.
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