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Help picking out which layer configurations to purchase from SleepEZ 24 Jun 2013 15:57 #1

Like numerous other posters, I am in the market for a new mattress. I have been lurking on the site for quite some time, reading about the different types and configurations of mattresses available. Based on the reviews and recommendations of people on this site, I am heavily leaning towards the possibility of an “all latex mattress” from one of the members of this site (probably Sleep EZ). I have a few questions and am seeking some recommendations on what to purchase.

I like the idea of the mattresses in a zippered case, where different layers can be swapped around, allowing you to change the feel of the mattress after purchase and also to split and layer each side of the mattress differently. My wife and I have tested several different latex mattresses locally, but unfortunately there is not much available in the way of the adjustable layered types mentioned above. Most of the ones we have tested can be ordered with different layer ILD’s in any configuration you want, but are in sewed covers with varying thicknesses of polyfoam on top of the latex. Through reading on this site, I have come to realize that the polyfoam will definitely be the weakest link and think I prefer to stick with “all latex”. There is only one option locally that offers all latex in a zippered cover.

A little about us …..I am 6’-0” and weigh 160 lbs and my wife is 5’3” and about 120 lbs. She can sleep on most anything although she says she prefers a “softer” surface. (although after testing, this does not always seems to be the case, more on this a little later) She sleeps mostly on her side and back. Probably 80% side and 20% back. On the other hand, I prefer a firmer mattress. I have always preferred sleeping on my stomach and I tend to wake feeling more rested when I do. Due to a back injury about 4 years ago, sleeping on my stomach is now next to impossible except in the rare instance when we stay in a hotel with an extremely firm mattress. I have learned to sleep on my back and side mostly. Probably close to 60% side, 30% back and 10% stomach. The last several months it does not seem to matter which way I sleep, it seems I wake up every hour on the hour with lower back pain. After getting up in the morning and moving around for 15 minutes or so, my back ache subsides. Again, from research on this site, I believe majority of this pain is due to lack of support on our current 7yo cheap innerspring mattress and 4 lb memory foam topper. I have tried different thicknesses of toppers, from 3 inches to 6 inches with seemingly no relief. Since I now believe this is more of a support issue, this makes complete sense.

Ok, a little about preferences from local testing….In stores with the combo latex / polyfoam mattresses, our preferences always seemed to stay pretty consistent. For example, One store had a double sided 9 inch mattress. It was made up of a 6 inch blended talalay latex core, 1-1/2” inches of polyfoam on each side and it was covered with a quilted cotton cover. They could not give me much information at all on the polyfoam used (density, type, etc.). I think she told me the latex was ordered from Tennessee. Anyhow, my wife preferred a latex core of 32 ILD and I preferred the firmer version with 38 ILD. The saleslady told me that the quilted cover was stretched tighter on the higher ILD’s to make it feel firmer. Again, I don’t know much about the polyfoam and don’t intend to go this route anyway. I just wanted to put it out there in case it could possibly help with getting better suggestions from the mattress gurus.

We were able to find one store that carried Savvy Rest. They had 2 mattresses set up, one with layers of organic natural Dunlop and one with all natural Talalay layers. I was expecting us to prefer the Talalay based on what I have read on this site. Much to my surprise, this was not the case with my wife or myself. Both mattresses were set up originally from top to bottom as: 3” soft, 3” medium, and 3” firm. The owner could only provide me with the basic ILD ranges of the soft, medium and firm latexes. I assumed I would be able to find this online so I didn’t fret much over this while in the store. After searching their website, it seems that Savvy Rest does not like giving this information out. They state something similar to the following on their webiste: “using ILD is not a good way to compare mattresses. You should try each mattress configuration and not let the ILD’s of the individual layers keep you up at night.” This makes sense, but bothers me a little that they are not even willing to share the actual ILD’s, even though I know they can vary slightly.

The tallalay mattress seemed way too soft for our liking so we focused on the Dunlop for the rest of our visit. The original configuration of soft / medium / firm was too soft. (again top to bottom) Next they had us try firm / med / soft. As I suspected, this was about lying on a rock. I mentioned to them that I had heard it was not a good idea to have the soft layer on the bottom anyway. They didn’t seem to think there was anything wrong with putting it on the bottom. It was not to our liking anyway, so we next tried med / soft / firm. This ended up being the best configuration we could come up with, but still seemed a little firm. My wife and I both agree that this is close to what we are looking for, but in a perfect world, we would prefer it would be just a tad more cushy. As mentioned earlier, this doesn’t seem consistent with my wife’s preferences on other polyfoam / latex mattresses. The ones she preferred at the other stores seemed way too soft for me and on Savvy Rest mattresses she seems to be inline with my preferences. Since I wasn't sure about getting away from the progressive layering system and placing the soft layer below a med. I got them to let us try med / med / firm to see how much difference there was. Unfortunately, this was too firm.

1. Does anybody know the true ILD’s of Savvy Rest mattresses? Do their soft, med, firm correspond closely to online companies such as SleepEZ? I am thinking about the 10,000 series, which is also made up of 3 - 3" layers.
2. Is it a bad idea to put soft layers deeper down in the mattress? I think I remember reading on here that it is ok to place it in the middle layer, but that putting it on the bottom is a bad idea. Somebody please straighten me out on this or tell my why it is a bad idea.
3. Based on all the above information, are there any other layer configurations I should have tried at Savvy Rest. I think we would both prefer a mattress that is a little firmer than soft / med / firm, yet a little softer than med / soft / firm. Again, the entire mattress was organic Dunlop. I think I have read that Med Talalay would be in between soft Dunlop and med Dunlop. Would it be worth trying in the place of the soft dunlop layer?

I have been thinking about just taking the plunge and ordering a SleepEZ 10,000 series in the following configuration.
Wife (like we tested) Me (similar to what we tested, trying to get a little cushier)
3” Med Dunlop 3” med Talalay
3” Soft Dunlop 3” med Dunlop
3” Firm Dunlop 3” firm Dunlop

This way we could both play around with the med Talalay and compare it to our tested configuration. Although I would obviously prefer to pick out the layers right the first time, I am thinking that ordering this way we should have all options available to us at least on one side. With the 90 day layer swap that SleepEZ offers, we can trade layers out as needed.

Sorry my first post ended up being so long. I look forward to any feedback or suggestions.

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Help picking out which layer configurations to purchase from SleepEZ 24 Jun 2013 19:50 #2

Hi Rox1978,

We were able to find one store that carried Savvy Rest. They had 2 mattresses set up, one with layers of organic natural Dunlop and one with all natural Talalay layers. I was expecting us to prefer the Talalay based on what I have read on this site. Much to my surprise, this was not the case with my wife or myself. Both mattresses were set up originally from top to bottom as: 3” soft, 3” medium, and 3” firm. The owner could only provide me with the basic ILD ranges of the soft, medium and firm latexes. I assumed I would be able to find this online so I didn’t fret much over this while in the store. After searching their website, it seems that Savvy Rest does not like giving this information out. They state something similar to the following on their webiste: “using ILD is not a good way to compare mattresses. You should try each mattress configuration and not let the ILD’s of the individual layers keep you up at night.” This makes sense, but bothers me a little that they are not even willing to share the actual ILD’s, even though I know they can vary slightly.


I actually agree with their thoughts about not disclosing ILD's. When you are testing a mattress locally ... your own experience is much more meaningful than the ILD numbers that are attached to your experience and there are many people who pay too much attention to ILD numbers (which by themselves say little because other specs such as compression modulus, layer thickness, point elasticity and others are just as important to how soft or firm a mattress feels than ILD specs alone). There is more about this in post #2 here . They are probably also well aware that the only reason that a potential customer would need ILD information is to "duplicate" the mattress elsewhere because ILD is a "comfort spec" not a "quality spec" and has no bearing on the quality or value of the mattress. They are also right that trying to build a mattress by ILD specs alone can keep you up at night :)

ILD is also measured differently between polyfoam and latex and Dunlop and Talalay are also not "equivalent" in the same ILD (see post #6 here ) so testing mattresses with a different design or layering may not be applicable to your experience with a different mattress other than as a very general indicator that you prefer soft, medium, or firmer mattresses.

Having said all that ... the Dunlop layers that Savvy Rest uses would be roughly the same as the SleepEz Dunlop and would be in the same "range" of firmness levels. Both could reasonable be called soft, medium, or firm in other words although they may not be exactly the same because Dunlop is always a "range" of ILD's and will vary from layer to layer.

1. Does anybody know the true ILD’s of Savvy Rest mattresses? Do their soft, med, firm correspond closely to online companies such as SleepEZ? I am thinking about the 10,000 series, which is also made up of 3 - 3" layers.


Based on feedback from various customers ... the Savvy Rest ILD range is approximately ...

Soft Dunlop: 22-30
Medium Dunlop: 31-39
Firm Dunlop: 40 and above

Soft Talalay: N2 Soft 20-24
Medium Talalay: N4 Medium 30-34
Firm Talalay: N5 Firm 35-40+

So they would be in the same "range" as SleepEz.

2. Is it a bad idea to put soft layers deeper down in the mattress? I think I remember reading on here that it is ok to place it in the middle layer, but that putting it on the bottom is a bad idea. Somebody please straighten me out on this or tell my why it is a bad idea.


I don't think this would be "harmful" but it wouldn't be ideal because it may result in less supportive base layers which could affect your alignment. The upper layers to some degree could "bend" into the soft bottom layer and increase the riak of alighment issues although by the time the compression forces reach the lower layers most of them have dissipated and spread out into the layers about the bottom layer. it would also depend on your weight (heavier weights would affect the bottom layer more than lighter weights).

3. Based on all the above information, are there any other layer configurations I should have tried at Savvy Rest. I think we would both prefer a mattress that is a little firmer than soft / med / firm, yet a little softer than med / soft / firm. Again, the entire mattress was organic Dunlop. I think I have read that Med Talalay would be in between soft Dunlop and med Dunlop. Would it be worth trying in the place of the soft dunlop layer?


It may have been worth testing (top to bottom) soft/firm/medium. This would increase the firmness of the support and would also result in a slightly firmer surface (for most people depending on their weight and sleeping position). There are different types of softness in a mattress including the hand feel (very slight compression), pressure relief softness (the depth of your pressure relieving cradle in the top layers) and support softness (based mostly on the firmness of the deeper layers which are primarily to help keep your spine in alignment). Different people may be sensitive to one of these "species" of softness vs another although to different degrees every layer in a mattress has some effect on all the other layers.

It seems to me that you tended to prefer a softer top layer but may nave needed just a bit more firmness underneath this.

In general there are two effective ways to choose the layering design that works best for you. One of these would be through your personal testing or experience on a very similar mattress with a similar design (which would describe Savvy Rest) and the other is with more detailed conversations with the retailer or manufacturer who can use the "averages" of their customers with a similar body type and sleeping style to help you make the choice with the highest odds of success.

In the large majority of cases ... choosing S/M/F falls in the range where either this combination or some re-arrangement of it would be suitable for the large majority of people of average weight or even slightly above average weight. Of course they know more about their own design than anyone so I would base your decision on a more detailed conversation with them on the phone. One of the values of their system as well is that not only can you re-arrange the layers to fine tune them ... if it is necessary you can also exchange one and I would "build in" the possibility of this into your expectations so that it becomes a "bonus" if you don't need to use it.

Hope this helps ... and you are certainly looking in a good quality/value and very versatile direction :)

Phoenix
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Help picking out which layer configurations to purchase from SleepEZ 25 Jun 2013 06:08 #3

Thanks Phoenix. Even though I have read about moving the firm layer up one layer to firm a mattress up, for some reason this didn't even cross my mind. This would leave us with a cushier surface and provide firmer support deeper down. Definitely something we will try.

Is buying a layer of med talalay a descent option in the place of a soft dunlop (on one side only)? This would give us another option in layer configurations to play with after getting it home. It is difficult to know how a mattress will feel after sleeping on it for 8 hours. I want as many options as possible since we have yet to find the "perfect" combo for us. I am figuring on having to make at least one layer exchange. Or is mixing in a talalay layer not a good idea since we didn't like it in the store? Again, the talalay mattress in the Savvy Rest store was set up soft / med / firm. When we laid down, I felt like I sank. I am thinking I would have been mostly feeling the top soft layer so going with a little firmer talalay should give us another option. Based on the ILD ranges you provided, it seems it should be in the right ballpark at least.

I will try to call SleepEZ and get their opinions on this as well. Thanks again for all your help.

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Help picking out which layer configurations to purchase from SleepEZ 25 Jun 2013 12:47 #4

Hi Rox1978,

Is buying a layer of med talalay a descent option in the place of a soft dunlop (on one side only)? This would give us another option in layer configurations to play with after getting it home.


I wouldn't do this no ... partly because of the differences in "feel" and response between Dunlop and Talalay and also because the layers may have a different thickness. A popular option is to use a Talalay comfort layer on top of Dunlop support layers but other than this I wouldn't "mix and match" materials either side to side or top to bottom because the results may be "unpredictable" at best. I would choose different firmness levels in the same material to give you the options you need. If you do choose Talalay for a top layer only (on both sides) then it would be best to leave it on top. I think you will find most manufacturers would make the same suggestion.

The only exception I may make is if you had tested a specific mattress that used this type of unusual layering and you were 100% confident that the mattress you were purchasing had exactly the same layers in terms of firmness and thickness and even then I would be hesitant to use this type of combination and I wouldn't use different materials on each side of the mattress in the same layer.

Phoenix
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Help picking out which layer configurations to purchase from SleepEZ 05 Jul 2016 13:04 #5

Does anyone know if Savvy Rests ILD numbers still fall within the ranges mentioned in this post? I contacted Sleep EZ and they suggested getting SR ILDS which we have not had luck with on the configuration we like. Thanks!

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Help picking out which layer configurations to purchase from SleepEZ 05 Jul 2016 13:18 #6

Hi LuvMyGSDs,

Does anyone know if Savvy Rests ILD numbers still fall within the ranges mentioned in this post? I contacted Sleep EZ and they suggested getting SR ILDS which we have not had luck with on the configuration we like. Thanks!


Savvy Rest doesn't disclose the ILD range of their specific layers and it's really not necessary for them to do so because when you are testing a mattress locally then your body will tell you much more about whether a specific layering combination is a good "match" for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP than knowing the specific ILD's of each of the layers.

They do however label their layers as soft, medium, and firm so the closest SleepEZ approximation to a Savvy Rest mattress would be using the same number of layers, the same layer thicknesses, and the same type and blend of latex (either 100% natural Dunlop or 100% natural Talalay) with the same "word rating" in each of the layers ... even if it isn't exactly the same.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Help picking out which layer configurations to purchase from SleepEZ 06 Jul 2016 09:41 #7

Hi Phoenix,

The BME is not going to work out for us so we are going to get an all latex from Sleep EZ (no off gassing from polyfoam).

We were going to do two layers of Dunlop and then a comfort layer of blended Talalay. Since we need a king, do you happen to know if Latex Green (Sleep Ez's Dunlop supplier) provides one whole piece of King or would it have to be glued?

From a conversation with SleepEZ before, they said they can get a single piece of King Dunlop unglued if I wanted it from their supplier. But I'm wondering if that is continuous pour Dunlop from Latex Green or another supplier and if the product would feel or smell different? I also need to call and find out more on this. I know the Talalay has to be glued for a whole king piece.

I do not want split layers but three whole King layers in my bed (for various reasons).

Do you know what the highest whole size can be provided in Dunlop by Latex Green?

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Help picking out which layer configurations to purchase from SleepEZ 06 Jul 2016 10:26 #8

Hi eeks,

We were going to do two layers of Dunlop and then a comfort layer of blended Talalay. Since we need a king, do you happen to know if Latex Green (Sleep Ez's Dunlop supplier) provides one whole piece of King or would it have to be glued?

From a conversation with SleepEZ before, they said they can get a single piece of King Dunlop unglued if I wanted it from their supplier. But I'm wondering if that is continuous pour Dunlop from Latex Green or another supplier and if the product would feel or smell different? I also need to call and find out more on this. I know the Talalay has to be glued for a whole king piece.


I believe that Latex Green has king size molds (which would be their largest mold size) but you would need to check with SleepEZ to make sure they have them available or how long it would take if they need to special order it.

With a single layer vs a split layer you wouldn't have the option to individually customize each side with a different configuration but the material itself would be the same.

Phoenix
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Help picking out which layer configurations to purchase from SleepEZ 06 Jul 2016 15:53 #9

Thank you for the feedback- I spoke with them today and they said they are able to provide one piece of King in molded Dunlop - Shawn said he is doesn't provide the continuous pour process - just the tried and true Dunlop molds. :) So we will be good on getting three layers!

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Help picking out which layer configurations to purchase from SleepEZ 06 Jul 2016 16:02 #10

Hi eeks,

I'm glad you were able to choose a solid layer and assuming that you decide to pull the trigger ... congratulations on your new mattress :)

I'm looking forward to your comments and feedback once you've received it and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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