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Caught in the loop - Restored 03 Mar 2013 13:11 #21

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Re: Caught in the loop 19 Dec 2012 09:21 #21

From: Phoenix

Hi TD-Max,

I've followed the topper thing and have definitely given it some thought. Problem is now we are in a gussing game again and looks like about $250 per attempt plus frt.


This risk can be significantly reduced by local testing on latex layers of different types and firmness levels that would "approximate" your sleeping system.

Why do you say the stearns pillow tops will fail more quickly?


Because of the use of too much lower density and "suspect" polyfoam in the all important upper layers (which are the weak link of a mattress). The more of this material there is (and pillowtops and eurotops generally contain more of this type of foam) the greater your risk of early softening and failure. It's the same reason your other mattresses have only provided you with comfort and support for only a few years. Once you have 2" or more of either unknown or lower density polyfoam (or memory foam) in the comfort layers ... you are in very risky territory. More increases the risk further.

Phoenix
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Caught in the loop - Restored 03 Mar 2013 13:12 #22

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Re: Caught in the loop 19 Dec 2012 09:29 #22

From: TD-Max

If my research into Stearns is correct they have 5 levels in most lines:

Ultra Firm-stands on it's own

Plush tight top
Firm tight top
Plush Euro pillow
Frirm Euro pillow

The only difference between like rated tight and Euro tops is how the fabric is pulled tight or left loose in pillow form. Same contents.


I don't see how trying a single piece of foam out on a hard floor or odd mattress will help. Don't get me wrong here, I want to be helped here and you've been a great help, I just don't see how a guy can trust a variable so huge as mattress selection under a topper nor mattress topper for over a mattress.
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Caught in the loop - Restored 03 Mar 2013 13:15 #23

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Re: Caught in the loop 19 Dec 2012 10:51 #23

From: Phoenix

Hi TD-Max,

If my research into Stearns is correct they have 5 levels in most lines:


Being able to do any meaningful research into these mattresses is the biggest issue as you can see in these guidelines . They don't disclose the quality of the materials they use in their mattresses so meaningful research isn't possible. You are basically buying the equivalent of particle board under a veneer instead of real wood and paying even more than real wood prices. It may feel and perform the same as higher quality materials initially (just like particle board furniture has the same functions as wood furniture) ... it just won't last as long as better materials. When you buy into their description of "quality" ... you are buying a marketing story without any way to validate the information. If you do have the ability to validate it (through for example other people taking apart their mattresses and weighing out the foam or through talking with people who know the quality of the materials they use through past experience or knowledge) ... you will find that the weak links explains the "failure" of these types of mattresses that are so common everywhere.

The "level" doesn't matter except to the degree that pillowtops and eurotops have even more of the lower quality materials that will soften and degrade than the less costly and firmer models that use less of this material. Thicker layers of cheap lower quality polyfoam are more risky than thinner layers of the same foam. The softening of thinner layers has less effect on the mattress as a whole. The same low quality foam can also come in firmer and softer versions and firmer versions are also more durable than softer layers of the same material but both firm and soft lower quality materials will soften faster than higher quality materials.

Adding your own comfort layers is far less risky from many levels. If you use higher quality materials in the upper layers of your sleeping system it will last longer in the first place. It will also extend the life of the lower quality layers underneath it. Finally, you will have the ability to replace the layer that is the biggest cause of softening and loss of comfort and support without having to replace the entire mattress.

Comfort/pressure relief is what you feel when you first lie on a mattress. This is mostly about the upper layers.

Support/alignment is what you feel when you wake up in the morning either with or without the discomfort and pain that can come from sleeping out of alignment. This is mostly about the deeper support layers.

Quality/value can only be known by knowing the specific quality (type of foam and its density in the case of polyfoam or memory foam) of all the materials in your mattress and this will determine how the mattress will feel in months or years down the road. You can't feel quality. Both low and high quality materials can feel identical in a showroom and they both come in soft and firm versions. The only difference is that lower quality materials won't keep their original properties for nearly as long. The mattresses you have been buying that haven't lasted all have the same issues ... low quality materials in the upper layers of the mattress that have softened and degraded to the point where you lost either comfort or support.

Unlike most other people ... you have been fortunate that they broke down faster than most (probably because of your higher weight) so the permanent impressions were outside of the warranty exclusions. Most warranty claims are denied because they aren't outside of these exclusions and the loss of comfort and support by itself without permanent unweighted impressions is not covered by a warranty.

So you are buying the very type of mattress that is one of the primary reasons this site exists to warn people about. If you know the quality of the materials in your mattress ... you can avoid the types of choices that you have made in the past where a mattress feels great initially and for a while ... only to soften or degrade much too quickly and where the price you paid is much higher than mattresses that use much higher quality materials that are more durable and will last longer.
I don't see how trying a single piece of foam out on a hard floor or odd mattress will help. Don't get me wrong here, I want to be helped here and you've been a great help, I just don't see how a guy can trust a variable so huge as mattress selection under a topper nor mattress topper for over a mattress.

With some testing on mattresses that have known materials and layers along with the help of someone with the knowledge and experience to help you make good choices and some general guidelines about the types of thickness and softness that is generally appropriate for someone of your body type and sleeping positions ... you can certainly come close enough that the risks are far less than the risks and costs involved in the directions you are looking.

Phoenix
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Caught in the loop - Restored 03 Mar 2013 13:17 #24

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Re: Caught in the loop 19 Dec 2012 11:58 #24

From: TD-Max

So shifting gears what do you think of this recipe:

Stearns & Foster Mattress
Comfort: Firm TT

Comfort Level: 2.0
Mattress level 3
Mattress Top Down
Quilt: FR Fiber
High Loft Fiber; .5" High Performance Foam, .5 High Performancce Foam
Comfort Layers: 1.57" Smart Latex;
Core: 8.75" Smart Latex
Edge System: Interlock Support system
Box Spring: LTD (TM)
Box Spring Height: 9" or Low Profile: 5 1/2"
Mattress Height: 12 3/4"



Only 1" of the non latex stuff and that is in the quilting where it should do minimal harm. I guess the only real question then is how good is the latex?
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Caught in the loop - Restored 03 Mar 2013 14:30 #25

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Re: Caught in the loop 19 Dec 2012 13:03 #25

From: Phoenix

Hi TD-Max,

So shifting gears what do you think of this recipe:


The Villa firm is a mattress I have suggested several times for those who are "trapped" in situations like yours and forced to consider a Stearns & Foster. You can see examples in post #66 here and in post #6 here . The same principles (finding a firm mattress with less polyfoam) are the basis for the suggestions in post #4 here .

All of these were in circumstances similar to yours.

Only 1" of the non latex stuff and that is in the quilting where it should do minimal harm. I guess the only real question then is how good is the latex?


The latex is mostly synthetic Dunlop which is the lowest cost and quality version of latex but it is still a better material than lower density polyfoam. You can read about some of the different types of latex in this article along with post #6 here .

While I would never buy a Stearns & Foster latex mattress because they are poor value (like all major brand mattresses) compared to much better quality versions of latex mattresses which are available at much lower prices ... if you are forced to do so because of an exchange then at least the Villa is the best of some bad choices.

Phoenix
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Caught in the loop - Restored 03 Mar 2013 14:31 #26

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Re: Caught in the loop 25 Dec 2012 16:10 #26

From: TD-Max

Any idea how to find out what "level" the Swanwick mattress was? I'm looking to get very last penny of value out of Sealy/Stearns warranty.
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Caught in the loop - Restored 03 Mar 2013 14:32 #27

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Re: Caught in the loop 25 Dec 2012 17:31 #27

From: Phoenix

Hi TD-Max,

I don't know and there isn't any information that came up with a search.

I would probably suggest calling Sealy/Stearns & Foster, the retailer it was originally purchased from, or a retailer that may be more knowledgeable about their older models or alternative names it went by (such as www.themattressexpert.com/ or www.gotomattress.com/)

Phoenix
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Caught in the loop - Restored 03 Mar 2013 14:33 #28

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Re: Caught in the loop 26 Dec 2012 09:29 #28

From: TD-Max

Thanks

Still can't get to the sealy/stearns web site. I get redirected to sealy canada. Sealy canada sent me a phone number with automated answer that gets me nowhere without a valid extension and a defunct email address. If you could post sealy US phone would be appreciated.
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Caught in the loop - Restored 03 Mar 2013 14:35 #29

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Re: Caught in the loop 26 Dec 2012 12:01 #29

From: TD-Max

Phoenix wrote:
Hi TD-Max,

If you do exchange for a Sealy ... with the intention of adding a topper ... the key is to minimize the lower quality foam in the upper layers of the mattress to the degree possible.

Phoenix


Who do you recommend as best source for toppers?
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Caught in the loop - Restored 03 Mar 2013 14:37 #30

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Re: Caught in the loop 26 Dec 2012 16:32 #30

From: Phoenix

Hi TD-Max,

The Sealy customer service phone number listed on their site is:

1-800-MY-SEALY
1-800-697-3259
(business hours 9:00 a.m. – 4:30 p.m. ET, Mon. – Fri.)

Their mailing address is:

Sealy Company Headquarters
Attn: Consumer Support
One Office Parkway at Sealy Dr
Trinity, NC 27370
Still can't get to the sealy/stearns web site. I get redirected to sealy canada.

That really is bizarre. Have you tried deleting all your "Sealy" cookies and clearing your browser cache?

A google search on "disable automatic browser re-direction" may also be useful but that's about the end of my technical knowledge that may help solve this.

Who do you recommend as best source for toppers?


Post #4 here has a lost of many of the better topper sources I'm aware of.

Phoenix
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