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SavvyRest 7" Tranquility + topper vs. SleepEZ Natural 7000 + topper 08 Feb 2013 16:39 #11

  • 57chevy
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Hi Sleepy1,

Just being curious as a potential buyer of latex mattress. You just mentioned that the soft layer within the mattress felt softer than when it was on top as a topper. This appears to be different from the point Phoenix made that a pillowtop mattress feels softer. Is there any reason for the discrepancy.

Thanks to Sleepy1 and Phoenix.

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SavvyRest 7" Tranquility + topper vs. SleepEZ Natural 7000 + topper 08 Feb 2013 20:17 #12

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Hi 57 chevy,

In one post ... sleepy1 mentioned ...

Of course one difference is the separate topper adds two more layers of the wool quilting. In any case, although it may seem contradictory, it was like the separate topper was somehow freer to move and was able to cradle us in more softness, while at the same time it "interfered" less with the good firm support of the main mattress.


And in another mentioned ...

When the comfort layer of soft was added as a separate topper, we were fine. But when the soft layer was incorporated into the main bed, THAT bed felt too soft; I lost support.



Which seems contradictory..

Both versions of this fits "theory" though and are actually talking about different "versions" of softness. Softness has different "species" ("feel" softness, "pressure relief" softness and "support softness") and different people are more or less sensitive to one or more of these. An independent top layer would act softer in terms of "pressure relief" softness because an independent top layer would have more freedom to compress without being affected by a tighter quilting and the sides of the topper could pull in more (which allows for more compression and cradling). Under this is the fabric and mattress ticking/quilting which would reduce the compression of the layers below it making them more "supportive".

With this same layer inside the mattress ... then then the top layer would be "less free" to move independently and less cradling so the "pressure relief" softness" would be less but there would be more compression into the deeper layers which many would perceive as a little less "supportive' (support softness) and others would perceive as just softer overall (but a different "type" of softness").

The "transition" between the layers would be less with the latex inside the mattress and there would be less "definition" between the surface softness and the support softness.

It's tough sometimes to describe subjective perceptions or "theory" in a way that makes sense to others (especially when the same word is used to describe three different "feelings") but hopefully this will make some sense and of course if Sleepy1 has anything to add about their own perceptions that would be great as well.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

SavvyRest 7" Tranquility + topper vs. SleepEZ Natural 7000 + topper 08 Feb 2013 23:37 #13

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Hi Sleepy1,

You just mentioned that the soft layer within the mattress felt softer than when it was on top as a topper. This appears to be different from the point Phoenix made that a pillowtop mattress feels softer. Is there any reason for the discrepancy.

Thanks to Sleepy1 and Phoenix.


Actually, the soft layer did feel softer as a topper. But when the soft layer was incorporated into the bed, the whole bed felt softer only in the sense that I lost support....yet the topper lost some of its pressure-relief softness too. Phoenix explained it very well but I'll take another crack at it too since a few people seem interested.

I think a key element is that as Phoenix mentioned earlier, the cover on the main bed (2, 3, or even 4 layers of latex) is fairly taut or tight. Picture this: Take an armful of polyfill (the fluffy stuffing commonly used for pillows) and lay it on a table and poke your finger through it. You can touch the table with almost no effort. Now take the same material, stuff it into a regular cotton pillow case and lay that on a table; it will take a bit more effort to touch the table. Now take a zippered pillow case, pack the stuffing in there pretty good and zip it up. It will take quite a bit more force to push your finger through it; in fact, you might not be able to do it. There are probably several things going in this example: the surface tension of the fabric, plus the polyfill being compressed by the fabric around it, making it somewhat firmer, plus the polyfill being confined by the case so it has "nowhere to go" when you press your finger into it. So on this theory.....the surface tension of the tight cover would have a "firming" effect on the main mattress. Of course it would depend greatly on the type of fabric in the cover: a thin jersey stretch-knit might have little effect; a thick heavy fabric quite a bit more.

The cover on the separate topper is much looser than the cover on the main bed; think about it, if you put a tight cover on a single latex layer, it would curl up! The loose cover allows the latex to flex and move freely; it can move away from you and also "reach up" and cradle you. Like the polyfill stuffed loosely into the open-ended pillowcase, it can still move away from your finger. (Gah, I'm becoming a bed geek!) So, going back to my bed, ;) I believe that's why the separate topper was much softer. In fact, I believe I was able to blow right through it to the med/firm Dunlop, which had the great support. This was good for me, because the med Dunlop wasn't uncomfortably firm, it just lacked the pillow-top cuddly aspect. Now what happened when that same soft layer was incorporated into the main bed under the tight cover? A couple things: The topper got a bit firmer because it was in a tight cover, which was bad because I lost the cradling comfort. This also meant I wasn't able to "blow through it" to the firmer layer below (I seriously doubt I sunk in 4" (3" talalay + 1" cover) in any part of that bed) which was bad because I lost the good support of those layers. In effect, the soft layer became my support layer and it wasn't firm enough for that, and also lost some of its ability to function as a comfort layer. Hence the apparent paradox. :huh:

I don't know what effect the extra layer of cover (1" wool quilted to cotton) on the bottom of the topper had on the whole system, but I guess whatever it was, it worked for me. :)

I think the bottom line is that a 2-layer latex bed + 3rd layer as a separate topper is likely to function quite differently than when the same 3 layers are incorporated into one bed within the same cover. So that might be something to consider when you're trying out beds.

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Last edit: by Sleepy1. Reason: last one

SavvyRest 7" Tranquility + topper vs. SleepEZ Natural 7000 + topper 09 Feb 2013 00:18 #14

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Many thanks to Phoenix and Sleepy1 in describing the different softness "species". It is quite amazing all the variables that effect a mattress. It makes looking for a new one even more daunting. I think we will go mainly by "feel" while thinking about comfort and support as our main guide and use some of the knowledge we have learned to help support what we actually feel. We're hoping to find that "wow" and we'll let you know if we get there.

On another note I started a topic on talalay gl and if you have any knowledge concerning the slow response gl and its comparison with regular latex, fast response latex and memory foam I would appreciate it. I like the feel of memory foam but am trying to stay away from the possible toxic effects. Thanks.

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SavvyRest 7" Tranquility + topper vs. SleepEZ Natural 7000 + topper 09 Feb 2013 03:19 #15

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Hi 57chevy,

That's certainly the best way to test mattresses. Let the body tell you what it feels (and make sure you spend at least 15 minutes fully relaxed on any serious candidate) but let the mind translate it into the more objective terms of pressure relief and alignment.

On another note I started a topic on talalay gl and if you have any knowledge concerning the slow response gl and its comparison with regular latex, fast response latex and memory foam I would appreciate it. I like the feel of memory foam but am trying to stay away from the possible toxic effects. Thanks.


I linked to a few posts about the Talalay GL slow response in the other thread.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

SavvyRest 7" Tranquility + topper vs. SleepEZ Natural 7000 + topper 10 Feb 2013 00:00 #16

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Many thanks to Phoenix and Sleepy1 in describing the different softness "species". It is quite amazing all the variables that effect a mattress. It makes looking for a new one even more daunting. I think we will go mainly by "feel" while thinking about comfort and support as our main guide and use some of the knowledge we have learned to help support what we actually feel. We're hoping to find that "wow" and we'll let you know if we get there.

On another note I started a topic on talalay gl and if you have any knowledge concerning the slow response gl and its comparison with regular latex, fast response latex and memory foam I would appreciate it. I like the feel of memory foam but am trying to stay away from the possible toxic effects. Thanks.


Well try not to see it as daunting, but as an opportunity to either search for or "build" your ideal sleeping surface!

If I've learned anything from this forum, it's that alignment comes first. And that can be hard to "feel" in the few minutes you're trying out a mattress in the store. Our "nightmare" memory foam mattress felt heavenly for the first 20 minutes or so...it wasn't until the middle of the night that the lack of alignment reared its ugly head. Maybe if we'd had a chance to try that mattress in the store and I'd had the sense to have DP check my alignment, we'd have avoided that mistake. For this last purchase I had DP pull my shirt all the way up in the back and check the alignment of my spine. Embarrassing, but IMO necessary. :ohmy:

I know nothing of gl MF (or anything else for that matter) but we definitely had a reaction to the MF off-gassing, though we detected no strong smell at all. I'm pretty leary of it now, but that's just me. :)

DP brought up what I thought was an excellent point today: Memory foam (or slow response foam) was of course first developed for astronauts to solve a specific problem--to cushion the body from G forces during flight--and this happens during a relatively short period of time. The body is thrown back very hard and fast, so of course slow-response shock absorption is best, as a more springy, fast-response material would result in the body being bounced forward just as hard. MF fits the bill well for that. But is it really good for sleeping all night? My personal feeling is that when coupled with proper support underneath, MF can be an excellent comfort layer, but I'd only consider it again IF they could figure out a way to make it without all the petrochemicals. JMO FWIW

Good luck!

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SavvyRest 7" Tranquility + topper vs. SleepEZ Natural 7000 + topper 10 Feb 2013 00:45 #17

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Hi Sleepy1,

DP brought up what I thought was an excellent point today: Memory foam (or slow response foam) was of course first developed for astronauts to solve a specific problem--to cushion the body from G forces during flight--and this happens during a relatively short period of time. The body is thrown back very hard and fast, so of course slow-response shock absorption is best, as a more springy, fast-response material would result in the body being bounced forward just as hard. MF fits the bill well for that. But is it really good for sleeping all night? My personal feeling is that when coupled with proper support underneath, MF can be an excellent comfort layer, but I'd only consider it again IF they could figure out a way to make it without all the petrochemicals. JMO FWIW


You're DP's point is very insightful and is one of the reasons that so many small manufacturers that are more accountable to their local customer base are suspicious of memory foam as well. The slow response of memory foam and its ability to absorb energy (such as projectiles shot at it as well) is called hysteresis and is the opposite of resilience (bounceback). Of course as you mention in the "right" combinations and for the "right" people it can be a very good material as a comfort layer (not as a support material) and many people love it but for many it's certainly not the panacea that some people would have you believe :)

Phoenix
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SavvyRest 7" Tranquility + topper vs. SleepEZ Natural 7000 + topper 11 Feb 2013 23:01 #18

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Our mattress is coming tomorrow! Just one week after we ordered it. Not bad. It feels like the night before Christmas...or maybe better. Four months now without a good night's sleep--3 months on our "memory foam nightmare" and now 1 month on a lumpy, bumpy, saggy sofabed. :( So, yeah, better than Christmas.

Although the mattress we bought (SleepEZ) was "very very similar" to the one we tried in the store (SavvyRest), of course there could be some differences. BUT because we purchased a bed consisting of split layers in zip-up covers, we have many combinations to try if we do need to fine-tune. And we're fully prepared to exchange a layer or two if necessary--the cost for this is quite reasonable (so much better than dealing with some sleazy mattress store and "warranties" that never seem to cover anything). Right now, I'm about 80% confident that the mattress will be wonderful as-is; and if it isn't, I'm 99% confident we'll be able to make it so because we now have the knowledge to make any needed adjustments--including where to go to ask for advice. ;)
And sitting here tonight, pre-delivery, that's a pretty good place to be. :)

:kiss:

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SavvyRest 7" Tranquility + topper vs. SleepEZ Natural 7000 + topper 12 Feb 2013 02:12 #19

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Hi Sleepy1,

I can kinda "feel" your excitement "popping" through the screen!

Congratulations on your new mattress as well :)

Now that it's about to arrive you only have to wait one more day/night before you actually get to sleep on it ... and I'm looking forward to your report about what Santa brought you :)

Phoenix
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SavvyRest 7" Tranquility + topper vs. SleepEZ Natural 7000 + topper 12 Feb 2013 23:42 #20

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The bed arrived this afternoon, right on time.

The rolled, compressed latex layers sprung to full size instantly. They had a very slight sweetish rubbery smell that wasn't in any way strong or unpleasant. Arranging the layers and getting them zipped up in the cover took around 15 minutes. The Talalay topper came already encased in its separate cover. The organic cotton/wool quilted cover is EASILY as nice as the SavvyRest cover. The organic cotton is wonderfully soft and the wool quilting is quite thick (maybe a bit thicker than the SavvyRest), puffy, springy, soft....Such a nice feel and so beautiful it's a pity to put sheets over it. The free latex pillows were the solid latex kind--not the shredded--they appeared rather flat compared with a polyfill pillow, but actually felt just the right height. They had a bit of a sharp odor, but it dissipated quickly. Everything seems top quality.

As soon as the bed was assembled but without any sheets or bedding, I laid down on my back--my usual falling-asleep position. The soft but springy surface filled every curve--my lower back, behind my knees, even the area between my heels and calves. My whole body felt evenly and gently supported, yet with an incredible softness too. In fact, as I lay there, I realized I felt the same "weightlessness" as with the memory foam mattress, only without that "sinking into wet concrete" feeling. I have never experienced this feeling with any other mattress. The latex pillow continued the perfect support and I'm loving that as well. I flipped onto my side; latex moves with you, springing up and kind of helping you turn over. Very responsive, almost "alive." Equally comfortable on my side, even with my very broad shoulders. Turned onto my back again and then.....I fell asleep. Woke up 45 minutes later a bit cold without any covers, in the same position. I don't think I moved a muscle.

I will say, the main bed (two layers of Dunlop) when zipped up, is not as "tight" in its cover as the SavvyRest was. Either this, or simply the fact that the latex comes from a different source, the whole bed does feel a bit softer than the equivalent SavvyRest. Whether that will be a problem, a few night's sleep will tell. But so far so good.

I tell you folks, if you haven't experienced an all-latex mattress, you should at least try it. I'm incredibly frugal (DP says "cheap") and a month ago would have taken an oath I'd never, ever spend $1700 on a mattress. But once I tried it I just had to have it. Simple as that. Right now it feels like the best money I ever spent and I can't wait to go to bed tonight. :)

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Last edit: by Sleepy1.
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